Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

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AUbicycles
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Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:43 pm

This is a very good reference for promting cycling, the intro is a bit general but give it time and inside the 8 steps you will see themes that you already know and hopefully a few that are new or a different way of approaching it.


http://www.modacitylife.com/blog/8-rule ... -marketing

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby human909 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:46 pm

I like it.

I do think there are plenty of cyclists out there that have no interest in promoting a cycling culture that is more utilitarian. (AKA normal clothes, slow speeds, relaxed bikes.)

I find this frustrating given the benefit both direct personal benefits and societal benefits that more cycling can bring. That said just because you like something doesn't mean you need to be an advocate for it.

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby RobertL » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:26 pm

human909 wrote:I like it.

I do think there are plenty of cyclists out there that have no interest in promoting a cycling culture that is more utilitarian. (AKA normal clothes, slow speeds, relaxed bikes.)

I find this frustrating given the benefit both direct personal benefits and societal benefits that more cycling can bring. That said just because you like something doesn't mean you need to be an advocate for it.


I agree. On the other hand there are plenty of utilitarian cyclists who do not like "lycra-clad roadies". We need all types of cyclists to see the benefit of getting all types of cyclists on the road.
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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby fat and old » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:27 pm

human909 wrote:I like it.



I have to agree. In spite of the self professed need to lie to get what you want, I like their thought process. I like the idea of normalizing cycling, and if promoting utilitarian cycling gets us that, excellent. I'm all for it. I don't think it will ever remove the stigma attached to the lycra clad roadie...in fact I think it will increase. But if my kid's and grandchildren's lives and places are improved then great.

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby human909 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:44 am

fat and old wrote: I don't think it will ever remove the stigma attached to the lycra clad roadie...in fact I think it will increase.

I'm not that pessimistic. Most of the 'lycra clad roadie' hate is just a subset and a focus of the general cyclists hate.

In countries where cycling is the norm there isn't particular stigma attached to 'lycra clad roadie'. Sure that group will still be recognised as 'lycra clad roadies' and have associated stereotypes but that doesn't mean they are negative.

Not really much different from most activities that the mainstream population participate in. You have your regular types, and your enthusiasts.

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Aussie kids’ fitness at an all-time low

Postby find_bruce » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:19 am

How does this effort at promotion Aussie kids’ fitness at an all-time low fit in terms of the 8 rules of effective (bike) marketing ?

It seems to me to be focused on statistics & identifying the problem, with only a very small mention of the culture they want - "low cost, high impact interventions to enable 3.7 million Australian children to walk, scoot and ride to school” - but perhaps i am missing something

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby bychosis » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:21 am

fat and old wrote:
human909 wrote:I like it.



I have to agree. In spite of the self professed need to lie to get what you want, I like their thought process. I like the idea of normalizing cycling, and if promoting utilitarian cycling gets us that, excellent. I'm all for it. I don't think it will ever remove the stigma attached to the lycra clad roadie...in fact I think it will increase. But if my kid's and grandchildren's lives and places are improved then great.


Marketing is warping the truth to sell you stuff. Bikes need that. The article is right about car advertising, there is never any traffic. They are often out in the country on the open road and lately there seems to be a focus on selling tearing around in the scrub in a 4wd since they stopped hooning in road going cars being advertised.

I found this line interesting:
We tend to surround ourselves with like-minded people, while algorithms feed us news and ideas that strengthen our existing worldviews.


we are in danger of algorithms warping our world view, confirming what we already perceive when in fact they should be presenting countering articles to make us think.

My wife's news feed on her phone (I don't use the news feed thingy) is constantly bombarding her with sport stuff, which she likes to view, but it is largely NFL and ice hockey to which she has no interest at all and keeps telling the news feed so. That algorithm sucks.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby fat and old » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:50 am

human909 wrote:
fat and old wrote: I don't think it will ever remove the stigma attached to the lycra clad roadie...in fact I think it will increase.

I'm not that pessimistic. Most of the 'lycra clad roadie' hate is just a subset and a focus of the general cyclists hate.

In countries where cycling is the norm there isn't particular stigma attached to 'lycra clad roadie'. Sure that group will still be recognised as 'lycra clad roadies' and have associated stereotypes but that doesn't mean they are negative.

Not really much different from most activities that the mainstream population participate in. You have your regular types, and your enthusiasts.


You think? Here, today's headline

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/lycra ... 4yz3j.html

He fled the scene on a bike but CCTV footage clearly identifies the man who was wearing a Meerkatsu Kingz MMA lycra cycling top


Based on him riding a bike!!!!!! Have a look at this

http://meerkat69.blogspot.com.au/2014/0 ... guard.html

It's a rashie!!!! So blame the bloody waxheads!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: We're rooted.

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby bychosis » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:17 am

fat and old wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/lycra ... 4yz3j.html

He fled the scene on a bike but CCTV footage clearly identifies the man who was wearing a Meerkatsu Kingz MMA lycra cycling top


Based on him riding a bike!!!!!! Have a look at this

http://meerkat69.blogspot.com.au/2014/0 ... guard.html

It's a rashie!!!! So blame the bloody waxheads!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: We're rooted.


He's only wanted because his helmet wasn't fastened. :roll:
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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby g-boaf » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:00 pm

RobertL wrote:
human909 wrote:I like it.

I do think there are plenty of cyclists out there that have no interest in promoting a cycling culture that is more utilitarian. (AKA normal clothes, slow speeds, relaxed bikes.)

I find this frustrating given the benefit both direct personal benefits and societal benefits that more cycling can bring. That said just because you like something doesn't mean you need to be an advocate for it.


I agree. On the other hand there are plenty of utilitarian cyclists who do not like "lycra-clad roadies". We need all types of cyclists to see the benefit of getting all types of cyclists on the road.


If some utilitarian cyclists don't like other types of riders then it's just never going to work. I try and get along with all other types of riders, but if they don't then it's all pointless and what is there worth advocating for.

Interestingly overseas in the parts of Europe I've been in nobody seems to care what kind of bike you are riding. Was stopped once by a guy who was interested in the bike I had, where I was from and what it was like to ride in Australia. Riding in among the locals around the city was pretty good.

Something has to change here in Australia, kids are getting less fit and society is also getting less healthy.

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby human909 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:54 pm

RobertL wrote:I agree. On the other hand there are plenty of utilitarian cyclists who do not like "lycra-clad roadies". We need all types of cyclists to see the benefit of getting all types of cyclists on the road.

There are plenty of motorists who don't like show ponies driving fast cars too. This dislike isn't hate and doesn't manifest itself in violence and careless indifference against others that leads to deaths. Chalk and cheese.

A stronger cycling culture will sort all this out.

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:16 pm

From the perspective of the cycling advocate - the 'lycra cyclist' is unfortunately viewed by media as the face of cycling and the everyday rider is overlooked.

When I consider that cycling should be portrayed with a vision of how it should be, the lycra road cyclists have a backseat and even though they may be a significant contributor to improving the roads, it is the general and everyday cyclists who benefit and through a general acceptance of cycle transport by society, the perception of the lycra cyclist shifts from the 'undesirable' to apathy.


In the forums it is clearly a pro-bike stance and I can see some value in softening the approach to move away from the hardline 'pro-bike' and the 'anti-bike' dialogue which which the media feed off and exacerbate. This is not about changing views or positive action - rather shifting the topic in the media away from "us against them'.

For example, it is no longer cars against bikes rather it is 'yobbo against a family'. It is a inattentive person using a smart phone against an everyday person.

The observer then looks at the situation and wants to identify. Typically in a car against bike debate, they are more likely to be a car driver and put the bike into question.

Instead, when it is shifted and it is not about the mode of transport and more about the character, the observer don't want to identify with the yobbo or bad behaving person...

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby find_bruce » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:47 pm

I am not a fan of James Huang, but I thought he nailed it with this article on CyclingTips fun isn't a four letter word.

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby human909 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:13 am

find_bruce wrote:I am not a fan of James Huang, but I thought he nailed it with this article on CyclingTips fun isn't a four letter word.


Just skimmed it. will read it later when I have time. Makes sense. That said there are some people who do desire pain, the push, the suffering. In many ways all the best to them.

I've seen positives from that approach: Success, achievements, fitness
I've also seen the mental health negatives. Where great isn't good enough. And enjoyment goes out the window in trade of the 'goal'.

But the relevance of road cyclists to average utilitarian cyclists is like F1 drivers to commuters.

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby g-boaf » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:59 pm

human909 wrote:But the relevance of road cyclists to average utilitarian cyclists is like F1 drivers to commuters.


This is quite ridiculous - what about "road cyclists" who also commute. or the commuter riders on utility bikes that also ride on roads. Or the riders who ride both? And how would your perception change of these people based on which of their bikes they are riding?

Little wonder there is no ability to get any support from government for active transport when we have needless divisive behaviour like this.

I don't want to advocate for a divided riding culture where all sides are throwing grenades at each other.

human909 wrote:
RobertL wrote:I agree. On the other hand there are plenty of utilitarian cyclists who do not like "lycra-clad roadies". We need all types of cyclists to see the benefit of getting all types of cyclists on the road.

There are plenty of motorists who don't like show ponies driving fast cars too. This dislike isn't hate and doesn't manifest itself in violence and careless indifference against others that leads to deaths. Chalk and cheese.

A stronger cycling culture will sort all this out.


Whatever you want to call this hatred or however you want to excuse it, more riders won't be on the road if all they get is hatred from other parts of the community. We've all got to look out for each other.

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby fat and old » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:32 pm

Have to agree with g-boaf.

What I took from that article...

The marketing associated with road cycling exhibits a strong disconnect between what people are really doing and what the industry (and many of the sport’s dyed-in-the-wool veterans) thinks they should be doing. In magazine and website ads, road cycling almost invariably equates to competition, even if it’s just with one’s friends. It’s not something you participate in; rather, it’s an aspirational goal. Riding on the road isn’t something you’re supposed to do because it makes you feel good. You do it for the purpose of getting faster.

This feels misguided. Placed next to the positive messages being used in the rest of the outdoor industry, road cycling doesn’t look like much fun at all.


More and more people are realizing that it really is more about the journey than the victory. It’s the people and places you meet along the way that you remember at the end of the day. That notion of escapism and camaraderie and experiencing the world through what is a really beautiful way to do — the bike — that’s the joy of it.


One bright spot is the exploding world of gravel and adventure riding, and I’m not at all surprised by its appeal. After all, getting outside and having a good time with your friends are some of the core themes there. Exploring the world. Challenging yourself. Breathing some fresh air.

Those more lighthearted ideals are pulling an increasing number of long-time roadies away from their skinny tires in search of more lighthearted experiences, and it’s refreshing to see. Every industry person I’ve spoken to has confirmed (usually off the record) that traditional road cycling is in sharp decline, but those fatter-tired alternatives are all on the upswing.

The mountain bike world learned this lesson ages ago. Cross-country racing is still a thing, but mainstream trail riding is all about getting your stoke on right then and there. As it turns out, Type II fun is still awesome, but there’s nothing wrong with Type I fun, either.


Most of us ride for fun, but nevertheless, “play” is not a word often used in road cycling marketing.


So yes, from a marketing POV it seems that everything I've seen and read points to "fun" being a more successful image in which to portray cycling. The end quote, which was under a Pic is what stands out for me. Play. The commentators skirt around the edges, use all sorts of euphemisms and analogies but boiled down it's about Playing. We're all big kids....and I have no issue at all with that moniker being put on me. Gravel riding, bikepacking, adventure riding etc. All good fun. And nowhere near the masses and their roads.

So I'll ask again. How does any of this help the cyclist that rides his normal drop bar to work and back, wearing lycra, and takes to the hills or Beach road on the W/E? How do we convince everyone else we have the right to play on the roads?

It's almost as if the industry, "advocates" and many other riders see the average roadie as an inconvenient truth.

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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby bychosis » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:08 pm

fat and old wrote:So I'll ask again. How does any of this help the cyclist that rides his normal drop bar to work and back, wearing lycra, and takes to the hills or Beach road on the W/E? How do we convince everyone else we have the right to play on the roads?

Simple really. You aren't allowed to have fun on the way to work. Everyone stuck in their steel cage in a line of mind numbing traffic isn't having fun, why should you!
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Re: Promote the (cycle) culture you want, not what you see

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:02 pm

bychosis wrote:
fat and old wrote:So I'll ask again. How does any of this help the cyclist that rides his normal drop bar to work and back, wearing lycra, and takes to the hills or Beach road on the W/E? How do we convince everyone else we have the right to play on the roads?

Simple really. You aren't allowed to have fun on the way to work. Everyone stuck in their steel cage in a line of mind numbing traffic isn't having fun, why should you!
my emphasis.

Reckon you've nailed it right there. Car commuting is a chore, the actuality of which...
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in no way corresponds with the image they paid for...
Image
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

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