Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

TheDotProd
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Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby TheDotProd » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:33 am

Hi

I was thinking about replacing my new bikes orange spoke reflectors with these:
https://www.flectr.bike/collections/flectr-360

They look more effective to my mind, but I'm really confused about the legal requirements.

I'm sold in the fact that I need reflectors for self preservation, and I like these ones as they show clear movement.
I might pair them with these:
https://www.flectr.bike/pages/flectr-ze ... ifications
Which are dart wing sryle stickers for your spokes.

Do I need to have the traditional orange spoke reflectors?

Can I have rim stickers as an alternative but must they be orange?

Cheers
Wayne

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby bychosis » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:06 pm

AFAIK bicycles are to be sold with wheel reflectors, but there is no legal requirement to have them on while rising on the roads. It is a difference between the Australian Standards and the road rules. Not sure what it says about colours though, and how it applies when you start adding extras.
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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby Bunged Knee » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:22 pm

It`s ok to replace it. As I`ve removed it to replace them.

I use the spoke tube reflectors from Evilbay on my wheels for over 2 years. It light up when headlights shine at it.

Up to you if you want the orange ones. I`ve only got the silver ones that looks like white when shined at it.
On my rear wheel.

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby twowheels » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:43 pm

In WA wheel reflectors & pedal reflectors are required (last time I checked about 6 months ago). To the side reflectors can be orange or white. No specification about size or type of reflector.
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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby find_bruce » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:30 pm

The Australian Standard only applies to retail sales & exempt certain bikes - tandems, race bikes, recumbents etc. As soon as you are out of the shop, you are free to whip off the reflectors, chain guard etc.

As twhowheels says the exception is WA which requires wheel & pedal reflectors to be fitted at night, even on fully faired recumbents :roll:

Personally I don't think wheel reflectors do much to improve your safety - by the time you are within the angle of their headlights you are either safely across or its too late for the driver to brake & avoid. That said, they don't do any harm, so if it makes you feel safer, go for it.

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby Jmuzz » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:38 pm

find_bruce wrote:. As soon as you are out of the shop, you are free to whip off the reflectors, chain guard etc.
.


Not all reflectors, depends on state.
Eg NSW requires a rear Red reflector at night or reduced visibility in the road rules (even when you have a bright red light). Reflective sticker is probably fine, but it's anyone's guess how it would turn out if a cop/insurance/coroner did demand proof that it meets AS optical tests.

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:17 pm

find_bruce wrote:Personally I don't think wheel reflectors do much to improve your safety - by the time you are within the angle of their headlights you are either safely across or its too late for the driver to brake & avoid. That said, they don't do any harm, so if it makes you feel safer, go for it.

I agreewith you for vehicles approaching from behind. But I can't count the number of times in the evening when I have either not seen a ninja approaching from the side as I enter a road. With just one more thing to pay attention to at in a complex intersection and I can forsee a tragedy for the ninja and for me.

So, while I focus mostly on being visible from behind (seems to be so many serious cases these days) with three separated flashing lights facing rear, I still see a need for side visibility. And wheel reflectors dancing up and down and in circles with rotation are seriously attention grabbing.

Aside:
There are a lot of people who take pics of me with flash at night time who would be disappointed when they look at the result later. I have my seat tube and forks bound in retro-reflective tape from Bunnings. Magic stuff!
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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby queequeg » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:01 pm

My tyres have a reflective strip on them already, which lights up the sidewalls very well. Far better than any crappy orange reflectors.

It’s only WA that has weird road rules about wheel and pedal reflectors, even if your pedals can’t have reflectors on them. Although, oddly enough, the SPD pedals I recently bought came with a reflector cage. It renders one side of the SPD pedal useless, and they look truly awful, but in WA you would have no choice.
Wearing reflective ankle straps would have a better visibility, but your ankles are not attached to the bike
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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:46 pm

Standard issue diamond reflectors are obsolete garbage with poor angles of effectiveness and should be consigned into the bin as soon as you get home.

Retroreflectives are the go. Other members have already posted the solutions you need: tape from bunnings to strategically adorn the frame and rims and spoke sleeves from ebay to give some moving item punch to your conspicuity as will a reflective ankle band (sadly underrated imo)
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Mububban
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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby Mububban » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:07 pm

twowheels wrote:In WA wheel reflectors & pedal reflectors are required (last time I checked about 6 months ago). To the side reflectors can be orange or white. No specification about size or type of reflector.
Get crafting - https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/prod ... ctFrom=Any


Reckon the reflective sidewalls on my tyres would cut it?

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Or should I pop into Bunnings for some of that reflective tape to put on the spokes?
Can anyone recommend a particular brand/item they've found works best?
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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby twowheels » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:24 am

The OP asked if ok to put stickers on his rims, not on his spokes.
I use reflective tape as a solution on rejuvenated bikes when I don't have reflectors available to suit.
I'm still using an old supply I have that is about to run out (red), the post coincided with me looking at the Bunnings option. Annoyingly they don't have 50mm wide red in 10m rolls.
The free Town/City(?) of Vincent ankle straps make good wheel reflectors when woven between spokes, cut in half, they are one sided.

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:32 am

My 2 cents, the flectr or similar are a good idea and much better than the crappy orange reflectors. Can also confirm input from others, didn’t know about WA requirements but everwhere else, they must br legally sold / provided when buying a new bike but do not need to be used,

Side visibility is none the less a good thing and a good addition to front and rear visibility.

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby fat and old » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:37 pm

find_bruce wrote:
Personally I don't think wheel reflectors do much to improve your safety - by the time you are within the angle of their headlights you are either safely across or its too late for the driver to brake & avoid. That said, they don't do any harm, so if it makes you feel safer, go for it.


Have to disagree there Bruce. There's a local commuter who has some form of reflective spokes (I have a strong suspicion it's Whinging Pom actually...G'Day Pommy if you're there still) and on my predawn drive I see him from yonks away at the slightest angle. Whatever he has works brilliantly. I saw another this morning with some form of LED spoke things that were almost as effective. As a driver I like them.

Edit....just realised you're referring to the original fitment reflectors? Yeah, nowhere near as good.

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby find_bruce » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:29 am

find_bruce wrote:Personally I don't think wheel reflectors do much to improve your safety - by the time you are within the angle of their headlights you are either safely across or its too late for the driver to brake & avoid. That said, they don't do any harm, so if it makes you feel safer, go for it.

fat and old wrote:Have to disagree there Bruce. There's a local commuter who has some form of reflective spokes (I have a strong suspicion it's Whinging Pom actually...G'Day Pommy if you're there still) and on my predawn drive I see him from yonks away at the slightest angle. Whatever he has works brilliantly. I saw another this morning with some form of LED spoke things that were almost as effective. As a driver I like them.

Edit....just realised you're referring to the original fitment reflectors? Yeah, nowhere near as good.

You seem to have missed my point, which usually means I haven't been clear. I am not saying that wheel reflectors aren't visible - as you say they are very noticeable when in the beam of a car headlight, as a result of both the reflection and the movement. What I am saying is that wheel reflectors are not effective at reducing the chances of a collision.

The purpose of wheel reflectors is to attract the attention of drivers coming at the side of a cyclist - think of a typical 4 way intersection - width of a road lane is say 3m, car headlight on low beam only lights up ~ 2 additional lanes, so 7.5m from centre. A cyclist traveling at 27 km/h will cover that 7.5m in 1 second.

How quick is you reaction time ? 0.7s is about as good as it gets, 1.5-2 seconds is average, which means if there was going to be a collision, by the time the driver sees the wheel reflectors, it is already too late.

A good set of lights is much more effective. My rear led is visible for more than 180° & I usually wear a helmet light - a brief flash at side streets is enough to attract attention

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby Arbuckle23 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:49 am

I use reflective ankle straps. They work well

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby fat and old » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:17 pm

find_bruce wrote:
find_bruce wrote:Personally I don't think wheel reflectors do much to improve your safety - by the time you are within the angle of their headlights you are either safely across or its too late for the driver to brake & avoid. That said, they don't do any harm, so if it makes you feel safer, go for it.

fat and old wrote:Have to disagree there Bruce. There's a local commuter who has some form of reflective spokes (I have a strong suspicion it's Whinging Pom actually...G'Day Pommy if you're there still) and on my predawn drive I see him from yonks away at the slightest angle. Whatever he has works brilliantly. I saw another this morning with some form of LED spoke things that were almost as effective. As a driver I like them.

Edit....just realised you're referring to the original fitment reflectors? Yeah, nowhere near as good.

You seem to have missed my point, which usually means I haven't been clear. I am not saying that wheel reflectors aren't visible - as you say they are very noticeable when in the beam of a car headlight, as a result of both the reflection and the movement. What I am saying is that wheel reflectors are not effective at reducing the chances of a collision.

The purpose of wheel reflectors is to attract the attention of drivers coming at the side of a cyclist - think of a typical 4 way intersection - width of a road lane is say 3m, car headlight on low beam only lights up ~ 2 additional lanes, so 7.5m from centre. A cyclist traveling at 27 km/h will cover that 7.5m in 1 second.

How quick is you reaction time ? 0.7s is about as good as it gets, 1.5-2 seconds is average, which means if there was going to be a collision, by the time the driver sees the wheel reflectors, it is already too late.

A good set of lights is much more effective. My rear led is visible for more than 180° & I usually wear a helmet light - a brief flash at side streets is enough to attract attention


As per edit....I misunderstood your intent :) But I still say whatever this bloke has on his spokies are grouse. No crap, see them hundreds of meters away with only a slight angle.

I don't really see how a car coming at right angles is gonna miss if he only sees you last minute, regardless of what you're running tbh.

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:42 pm

queequeg wrote:My tyres have a reflective strip on them already, which lights up the sidewalls very well. Far better than any crappy orange reflectors.


"Better"? Assuming you mean better in a functional sense then I emphatically disagree. Cheap, yes. Unsophisticated yes. But they are by far superior to grabbing attention than anything else that readiy comes to mind that is not a flashing electronic pattern. Those reflectors bounce up and down tracing a linear sort-of spring shape. So while sidewalls look prettier and are highly visible, they are nowhere as near as effective as those cheap reflectors on the spokes when it comes to grabbing attention.

Now if you were to black out half of the reflective side wall... 8)

Sometimes it is hard to improve on an old-school product. That is where those spoke reflectors sit, "crappy" though they may be.
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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby Bunged Knee » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:00 am

fat and old wrote:
I saw another this morning with some form of LED spoke things that were almost as effective.


Is it like this from E.bay?

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby queequeg » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:20 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
queequeg wrote:My tyres have a reflective strip on them already, which lights up the sidewalls very well. Far better than any crappy orange reflectors.


"Better"? Assuming you mean better in a functional sense then I emphatically disagree. Cheap, yes. Unsophisticated yes. But they are by far superior to grabbing attention than anything else that readiy comes to mind that is not a flashing electronic pattern. Those reflectors bounce up and down tracing a linear sort-of spring shape. So while sidewalls look prettier and are highly visible, they are nowhere as near as effective as those cheap reflectors on the spokes when it comes to grabbing attention.

Now if you were to black out half of the reflective side wall... 8)

Sometimes it is hard to improve on an old-school product. That is where those spoke reflectors sit, "crappy" though they may be.


True, but the downside of the crappy reflectors is that you need to be almost at 90 degrees to the bike to see them.

I do like the idea of blacking out some of the reflective tape on the sidewall so that it creates some movement. If only I could make my wheels light up like the Tron lightcylcle though :-)
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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby fat and old » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:10 am

Bunged Knee wrote:
fat and old wrote:
I saw another this morning with some form of LED spoke things that were almost as effective.


Is it like this from E.bay?

Image


Nah, these looked like blue LED spokes.

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Re: Okay to replace Orange wheel reflectors with rim tape?

Postby Bunged Knee » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:09 pm

fat and old wrote:
Bunged Knee wrote:
fat and old wrote:
I saw another this morning with some form of LED spoke things that were almost as effective.


Is it like this from E.bay?

Image


Nah, these looked like blue LED spokes.


See if something that you had seen in there.
ID please? What ID? My seat tube ID is 27.2mm or 31.6mm depending on what bikes I ride today.thanks...

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