Cyclists single-file
-
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm
Cyclists single-file
Postby Scintilla » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:21 pm
Yet along the whole length of the descent of 6 kms there are only about 6 short sections (50-100 metres each) where the centre line is not a solid or double line. The road lane is NOT anywhere near wide enough to allow a bike and car to share the lane-space and there is no sealed-shoulder on the descent. So this signage is meaningless!
Drivers need to suck it up and follow the road law. Riders on the descent will be doing 45-50 kmh, usually do ride downhill in single-file, and mostly safe speeds in a car down this road will barely be any higher.
Better sign to be placed at the top would be 'Drivers do not overtake bicycles'
-
- Posts: 1808
- Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:21 am
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
- Contact:
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby eldavo » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:33 pm
If you have any photos to go with the location description, it would be interesting to see.
- Derny Driver
- Posts: 3039
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
- Location: Wollongong
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Derny Driver » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:57 pm
That can be fixed with a 15mm socket or ratchet spanner.Scintilla wrote:I noticed on the Mountain Highway descent at Sassafras a new sign (yellow advisory) saying 'cyclists ride single-file'.
If you think Im joking, Im not.
-
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Scintilla » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:09 pm
It seems to be a new sign. This is the old signage from May 2017eldavo wrote:Is it exclusively on the downhill section, or both directions?
If you have any photos to go with the location description, it would be interesting to see.
https://goo.gl/maps/fXb263fgccp
I only saw the sign at the top; did not check at the bottom. There was much concern about a similar (white) sign at the bottom a few years ago but I beleive that it was eventually removed due to protests from riders. Moving single-file is more reasonable on the climb as a rider is travelling slower, there is more chance of hearing approaching cars, and there is (mostly) a sealed-shoulder to access.
-
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby AdelaidePeter » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:47 pm
Go about 100m further on Google Maps and you'll see it. https://goo.gl/maps/ssdrsTvjubQ2Scintilla wrote:It seems to be a new sign. This is the old signage from May 2017eldavo wrote:Is it exclusively on the downhill section, or both directions?
If you have any photos to go with the location description, it would be interesting to see.
https://goo.gl/maps/fXb263fgccp
I only saw the sign at the top; did not check at the bottom. There was much concern about a similar (white) sign at the bottom a few years ago but I beleive that it was eventually removed due to protests from riders. Moving single-file is more reasonable on the climb as a rider is travelling slower, there is more chance of hearing approaching cars, and there is (mostly) a sealed-shoulder to access.
I looked at the bottom (on Google Maps) and single file on the ascent would be a reasonable request (Edit: though only a request, in the absence of a genuine bicycle lane) because the shoulder looks quite wide.
Another thought just occured to me - is it for the cyclists' own safety? If it's very fast and winding, I imagine it would be quite dangerous to descend two abreast because you'd need most of the lane. Though it'd be unusual to be giving out safety tips like that. It's all very strange.
-
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Scintilla » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:00 pm
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/oute ... 0d4dd953cf
(Bloke on the far right...... an ex-student of mine and a particularly nasty and self-entitled type)
-
- Posts: 631
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:42 pm
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Jmuzz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:12 pm
When its at 50kph+ on a twisty downhill road it seems like a sensible bit of advice though.Scintilla wrote:Riders on the descent will be doing 45-50 kmh, usually do ride downhill in single-file, and mostly safe speeds in a car down this road will barely be any higher.
:
I certainly wouldn't appreciate another bike sharing my lane in those circumstances, it's my lane and I will ride a racing line or reserve it as safety margin. Nobody friend or stranger has any business getting next to me in those circumstances.
-
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Scintilla » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:17 pm
Advice and good safe practices with strangers is a good thing. BUT these signs are the tools of the local haters.Jmuzz wrote:When its at 50kph+ on a twisty downhill road it seems like a sensible bit of advice though.
I certainly wouldn't appreciate another bike sharing my lane in those circumstances, it's my lane and I will ride a racing line or reserve it as safety margin. Nobody friend or stranger has any business getting next to me in those circumstances.
Many experienced road training groups ride up into the hills. I am sure that they mostly spread out on the descent, especially in the twisty bits, but if they are expert and confident enough to ride two-abreast for the longer curves nobody should be castigating them for their own choice. As I stated, it is DEFINITELY unsafe and illegal for any cars to be pulling passing moves on this descent.
-
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:45 pm
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby BJL » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:34 am
But what would I know?
VicMotorists and the Yarra Ranges council are about as useful as tits on a bull.
-
- Posts: 1026
- Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:48 am
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Cyclophiliac » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:54 am
- Nate
- Posts: 3209
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
- Contact:
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Nate » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:57 pm
Looks like a smart person here... AS 1743:2001Cyclophiliac wrote:Is the new sign mentioned in the OP also mentioned in the Vic road rules? If not, its legality is arguable.
Vic extract for a read (just search for AS 1743:2001 & first linky)
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct= ... 4aXm7NP9I6
You cant just bust out the crayons & make it up as you go.
Write a letter & ask for proof of compliance with Australian design guidelines or have it removed as it is non-compliant.
Then ask who installed it...
-
- Posts: 1026
- Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:48 am
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Cyclophiliac » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:38 pm
I think the latter part of your last post replied to the wrong person here, perhaps direct the above comment to the OP instead of me?Nate wrote:You cant just bust out the crayons & make it up as you go.
Write a letter & ask for proof of compliance with Australian design guidelines or have it removed as it is non-compliant.
Then ask who installed it...
-
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby AdelaidePeter » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:53 pm
I doubt VicRoads are obliged to provide proof of compliance to a person who simply asks "show me that this sign is compliant". If on the other hand you provide a reason why you believe the sign is non-compliant, you might get a better result.Nate wrote:Looks like a smart person here... AS 1743:2001Cyclophiliac wrote:Is the new sign mentioned in the OP also mentioned in the Vic road rules? If not, its legality is arguable.
Vic extract for a read (just search for AS 1743:2001 & first linky)
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct= ... 4aXm7NP9I6
You cant just bust out the crayons & make it up as you go.
Write a letter & ask for proof of compliance with Australian design guidelines or have it removed as it is non-compliant.
Then ask who installed it...
But I think a more fruitful approach is to question the rule, not the sign. By my brief scanning of ARR, there is no rule saying there is any circumstance under which cyclists may not ride 2 abreast, so the sign could be argued to have no legal force. (Even when there is a bicycle lane, there isn't actually a rule about riding 2 abreast, it simply says we must ride in the bicycle lane). Since the sign is yellow, the reply might be the sign is advisory.
-
- Posts: 6179
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
- Location: Mill Park
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby fat and old » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:02 pm
For what it's worth, it's nothing new. The Esplanade around Mt Martha has had them for years..
https://www.google.com.au/maps/(AT)-38.280 ... 6656?hl=en
-
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Scintilla » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:03 pm
A similar land of self-entitled, arrogant, bike-haters in that areafat and old wrote:Maybe they're copying the Italian laws?
For what it's worth, it's nothing new. The Esplanade around Mt Martha has had them for years..
https://www.google.com.au/maps/(AT)-38.280 ... 6656?hl=en
It's the outer-burbs mentality. "Roads are built for cars, ya know?"
-
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Scintilla » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:07 pm
Indeed, that is what I stated in the post. It is not of any legal standing. Yet, all the local and visiting drivers WILL harass and abuse any riders who have the gall to ignore it. This all does nothing to engender reasonable road behaviours by drivers towards cyclists. It suggests in fact to drivers that:AdelaidePeter wrote:By my brief scanning of ARR, there is no rule saying there is any circumstance under which cyclists may not ride 2 abreast, so the sign could be argued to have no legal force. (Even when there is a bicycle lane, there isn't actually a rule about riding 2 abreast, it simply says we must ride in the bicycle lane). Since the sign is yellow, the reply might be the sign is advisory.
1. It is all OK to cross double-lines on a winding narrow mountain descent to overtake *single-file* riders, or
2. It is all OK to do the close-shave to get past said riders who "must get way over to the white-line for me"
- uart
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
- Derny Driver
- Posts: 3039
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
- Location: Wollongong
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Derny Driver » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:52 pm
Exactly. Drivers already think cyclists must ride single file everywhere. This just reinforces that.Scintilla wrote: Indeed, that is what I stated in the post. It is not of any legal standing. Yet, all the local and visiting drivers WILL harass and abuse any riders who have the gall to ignore it. This all does nothing to engender reasonable road behaviours by drivers towards cyclists.
-
- Posts: 6179
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
- Location: Mill Park
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby fat and old » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:16 pm
Where? Italy? Nah, I found the drivers to be no worse than Melbs, better in a lot of situationsScintilla wrote:A similar land of self-entitled, arrogant, bike-haters in that areafat and old wrote:Maybe they're copying the Italian laws?
For what it's worth, it's nothing new. The Esplanade around Mt Martha has had them for years..
https://www.google.com.au/maps/(AT)-38.280 ... 6656?hl=en
Meh, just ignore it. I don’t need to be two abreast to claim the lane anyway if need be
- uart
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby uart » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:31 pm
Indeed. And further to this, they also think that they should be able to overtake any cyclist at any time and in any location without even thinking. They hate cyclists riding two abreast because they think it makes them have to pay at least a tiny bit of attention and thought as to how and when to overtake them.Derny Driver wrote: Exactly. Drivers already think cyclists must ride single file everywhere. This just reinforces that.
-
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6622
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Cyclists single-file
Postby Thoglette » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:26 pm
Delete!uart wrote:ignore
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
Return to “Cycling Safety and Advocacy”
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.