Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Backdoorboss
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby Backdoorboss » Tue May 15, 2018 11:31 am

Thank you everyone for the input provided, its been very helpful.

The police never contacted me once I was out of the hospital and I don't ever recall talking to them regarding the crash.

I'm physically fine now and find myself quite lucky to be alive.
I'm back on the turbo trainer and just started commuting again.

The missus was telling me when I was in hospital the day of the crash, I would ask her the same 3 or 4 questions over and over again for several hours, sounding like a broken record.
Apparently friends and family visited me that day, but I don't remember them coming at all.

I'm off to do a neuropsychological assessment in a about a weeks time to see if there is any signs of permenant damage.

Perhaps its a good thing I don't remember the crash.

I will be contesting the fine in court just based on having the incorrect infringement code.
Once I receive the accident report, I will then re-evaluate on how to approach things further.

In the meantime, I'm going to try my luck and get more evidence.

Will keep you guys posted.

Cheers,
Charles.

human909
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby human909 » Tue May 15, 2018 11:39 am

Sounds like a bad concussion.

The fact that the police didn't even interview you in a mentally fit state just shows how little they cared about doing things properly.

If the driver claims you can out of nowhere, policeman nods his/her head in agreement that cyclist do that all the time. Infringement notice issued....

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Thoglette
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby Thoglette » Tue May 15, 2018 11:46 am

human909 wrote:The fact that the police didn't even interview you in a mentally fit state just shows how little they cared about doing things properly.

Indeed. You need to talk to a lawyer. And consider a "go fund me" page for your legal fees. Are you a member of any cycling organisation (e.g. BV?)
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

human909
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby human909 » Tue May 15, 2018 12:40 pm

Thoglette wrote:Indeed. You need to talk to a lawyer. And consider a "go fund me" page for your legal fees. Are you a member of any cycling organisation (e.g. BV?)

Huh!? Lets keep things in perspective here

He is being faced with a $159 infringement notice. Why would you bother seeing a lawyer and incurring legal fees regarding this. Especially when it is simply contestable based on a plainly incorrect charge. (Furthermore there charges might get dropped before he even makes it to court.)

Currently he is not facing any other financial costs. If an insurance company comes after him he can tell them where to shove their claims and throw his own claims back at them. But that is unlikely to go to court.

Personally I would enjoy my day in court over this one... :mrgreen:

"Your honour, I am here because it is alleged I was operating a motor vehicle and failed to give way at a roundabout. Yet the facts are, and these are not in dispute, that I was not operating a motor vehicle. On this fact alone I believe these charges should be dismissed. However while I am here I would like to raise that at no stage that I can recall did the officer who investigated this incident speak to me regarding it. I am curious on what basis the decision to issue this infringement was made."

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Thoglette
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby Thoglette » Tue May 15, 2018 1:11 pm

human909 wrote:Personally I would enjoy my day in court over this one... :mrgreen:

"Your honour, I am here because it is alleged I was operating a motor vehicle and failed to give way at a roundabout. Yet the facts are, and these are not in dispute, that I was not operating a motor vehicle. On this fact alone I believe these charges should be dismissed. However while I am here I would like to raise that at no stage that I can recall did the officer who investigated this incident speak to me regarding it. I am curious on what basis the decision to issue this infringement was made."


I reckon you might even get away with this one, if the magistrate is in a good mood. :D :D :D

However if the OP is in BV they might be able to provide some pro-bono advice and support. They should be interested in ensuring that, not only are these charges dropped, but that the MV driver is charged and the officer disciplined. One can only dream, of course.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue May 15, 2018 2:43 pm

human909 wrote:
Thoglette wrote:Indeed. You need to talk to a lawyer. And consider a "go fund me" page for your legal fees. Are you a member of any cycling organisation (e.g. BV?)

Huh!? Lets keep things in perspective here

He is being faced with a $159 infringement notice... Personally I would enjoy my day in court over this one


(In fact it's $277, unless there's a correction I've missed.)

I agree getting a lawyer is overkill, but won't he be up for court costs if he contests the case and loses? https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/find-le ... lenge-fine . Backdoorboss should at least speak to someone like Legal Aid, to see what he's risking.

donnaeastman
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby donnaeastman » Tue May 15, 2018 3:04 pm

Backdoorboss wrote:
queequeg wrote:However, without any evidence or footage, it might be hard proving that. Where was the damage on the car? Where and when did they enter the roundabout?

Also, they definitely issued you the wrong infringement. That might in fact be enough to render it invalid, or they may just reissue it with the correct offence code. Either way, since you carted off to hospital and were presumably not asked for your version of events, I am surprised you received a ticket.


Hi Queequeg,

Yeah this was actually the most frustrating part about the event, not being able to remember exactly what happened.
I have taken that roundabout over a hundred times commuting to work and was astonished I saw the infringement notice.

Here is a picture:
Image

I'm hoping the report will clear things up for me.


Same thought. I hope the report will clear things and doubts.

Jmuzz
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby Jmuzz » Tue May 15, 2018 4:02 pm

Without knowing the driver and any witness statements it is hard.
If their story is that they were already in the intersection but delayed due to a slower vehicle infront then that story will win. Considering you have no recollection so no claim it's false events.

It is worth taking to court so they are put on the spot to lockin their story.
But check your insurance situation, home contents usually provides cover any you may have a bicycle association membership cover. You can void your insurance if you don't give them a chance to get involved.

Expect a bill from cars insurer, especially if you accept guilt by paying the fine without challenging it.

human909
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby human909 » Tue May 15, 2018 5:59 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:I agree getting a lawyer is overkill, but won't he be up for court costs if he contests the case and loses?

The infringement that he would be contesting is for motor vehicles. I find it difficult to see how he could be found guilty of the offence when he was not driving a motor vehicle. The law is pretty clear cut here.

Challenging an false charge is EXACTLY what our courts are for. Being up for court costs for challenging something that even a layman can see is incorrect absurd. (I have at least some faith in the rationality of the judiciary.)

Jmuzz wrote:But check your insurance situation, home contents usually provides cover any you may have a bicycle association membership cover. You can void your insurance if you don't give them a chance to get involved.

At present he has no reason to believe he is liable for anything. So doing so would be jumping the gun.

Jmuzz wrote:Expect a bill from cars insurer, especially if you accept guilt by paying the fine without challenging it.

Don't be so sure. There are plenty of reasons why the insurer would not be sending a bill and that is even assuming the other party's insurance is involved.

No reason to jump three steps ahead when at present there is only one thing on the table and that is an invalid charge that has no chance of standing up in court.

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Nate
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby Nate » Tue May 15, 2018 8:25 pm

100% challenge it.

I've had SOOO many reports to police that ended in "conflicting statements, no further action".
Yet they're pretty quick to charge a cyclist when they can.

Wrong infringement = shows their incompetence & questions anything.

There's also a 6month limit (NSW) on when they can issue a traffic infringement. So challenge it in court in the 5th month & they wont have time to charge you for anything else :)

Also the law from memory: give way to the right & those already in.
As previously - the police have to PROVE without a doubt that you entered AFTER the car. Onus is on them.

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Leaf T
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby Leaf T » Wed May 16, 2018 12:54 pm

Should the OP be claiming against the drivers insurer? It seems like it to me. I don't know what if any the time frame to claim is but I would be considering this especially given the damage caused to self and bike.

Good to hear you're on the mend backdoorboss. Best wishes in getting the best outcome for yourself. Perhaps this incident is a good excuse to change your name to sidedoorboss? :D

fat and old
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby fat and old » Fri May 18, 2018 10:27 am

human909 wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote:I agree getting a lawyer is overkill, but won't he be up for court costs if he contests the case and loses?

The infringement that he would be contesting is for motor vehicles. I find it difficult to see how he could be found guilty of the offence when he was not driving a motor vehicle. The law is pretty clear cut here.

Challenging an false charge is EXACTLY what our courts are for. Being up for court costs for challenging something that even a layman can see is incorrect absurd. (I have at least some faith in the rationality of the judiciary.)


Be careful where you place that faith. I’ve fronted Mag court more than a few times and Thoglette is on the money. Hope it’s a reasonable Mag on a good day. I’m actually waiting on a court date atm on a boating issue which is theoretically cut and dried but it ain’t over till it’s over. Yeah, I enjoy it when I believe I’m right :lol:

human909
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Re: Accident advice regarding a roundabout

Postby human909 » Fri May 18, 2018 12:54 pm

fat and old wrote:Be careful where you place that faith. I’ve fronted Mag court more than a few times and Thoglette is on the money. Hope it’s a reasonable Mag on a good day. I’m actually waiting on a court date atm on a boating issue which is theoretically cut and dried but it ain’t over till it’s over. Yeah, I enjoy it when I believe I’m right :lol:


You are right there which is why I hedge slightly with a 'some faith'. :mrgreen:

I've never been in court. But I have had a similar fight on my hands before (not with government judiciary) and had to take pretty big measures as a backup in case I lost. But I prepared my case and by the end of it I almost felt sorry for those opposite me trying to justify being there at all. It was a stressful time but a fun win. :lol:

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