Hit by an uninsured driver

User avatar
PA
Posts: 1185
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:08 pm
Location: South Australia

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby PA » Thu May 24, 2018 2:09 pm

bychosis wrote:It's probably easier to collect from the estate though.

So what you are saying for B76 is to put a contract out on the little old lady. Bit harsh but it should work. :D
Mouse magnet

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 5738
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby bychosis » Thu May 24, 2018 4:31 pm

PA wrote:
bychosis wrote:It's probably easier to collect from the estate though.

So what you are saying for B76 is to put a contract out on the little old lady. Bit harsh but it should work. :D

oh no. I didn't SAY that. :twisted:
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

B76
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:12 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby B76 » Thu May 24, 2018 7:10 pm

So having taken on board the advice of posters above I tried to contact the driver to ask what their payment plan entailed. Of the next few days no reply to voicemail or email and the phone was never answered. So in the end I suggested that if they would no longer reply I would go to the Magistrates Court at the end of the week.

Cue the instant reply saying they would pay for the wheels only, as there is no proof that the frame is damaged. That is their “final offer or take them to court at your (my) cost”

This despite quotes from two bike shops, clearly visible frame damage, and the invitation to have my bike independently inspected by any repairer of the drivers choice, plus written copies and all contact details for verification of my quotes.

By the way this last email was from a third party, probably a family member but the tone was a definite change from our previously amicable exchanges. I have replied that that offer is not acceptable and I will seek a resolution through the court. It is a major headache as was suggested but it is absolute BS to consider walking away.

I have approached my professional union for a referral for a lawyer to help me get all the info I need and intend to file in the Magistrates court (without a lawyer present) hopefully the judge is reasonable. In the end, even if I end up with a payment plan its better than nothing or a pawltry sum for the wheels.

Will let you know how it all goes for future reference.

User avatar
10speedsemiracer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:38 pm
Location: Melbourne, in the suburbs, near some hills

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu May 24, 2018 7:38 pm

The main benefit in having an Order made is for enforcement in the event the defendant reneges/defaults on the payment plan. So from that point on, the debt is formalized. If the defendant defaults, there are options (Warrant to seize property etc), whereas without the Court Order, it's a case of starting from scratch. Agree with you that it appears someone is coaching, all the more reason to escalate to Mag Crt. The process is relatively simple, you may not need a Solicitor.
Mmm, SunTour

human909
Posts: 9137
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby human909 » Thu May 24, 2018 9:22 pm

B76 wrote:I have approached my professional union for a referral for a lawyer to help me get all the info I need and intend to file in the Magistrates court


Magistrates court? Doesn't WA have a small claims tribunal for this sort of thing?

Oh, yes its part of the court....
http://www.magistratescourt.wa.gov.au/_ ... heet_3.pdf

Jmuzz
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:42 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby Jmuzz » Thu May 24, 2018 10:07 pm

It's usually small claims, but don't know other states.

It is good that you have correspondence of them being obnoxious, there goes their sympathy card.

The usual process is to serve your letter of demand by registered post with signature of delivery. Include professional quotes.

When ignored or refused you lodge for court.
It is possible to do it by letter only, but better to be there in person. Only reason for other party to turn up is really just to play for sympathy though won't do much good.

All court is being asked to establish its that your claimed damages are genuine, which just comes down to reputable quotes.

They will award what you are asking, but enforcement may be a second day in court where they will hear her plea for a payment plan and give it to her.

User avatar
10speedsemiracer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:38 pm
Location: Melbourne, in the suburbs, near some hills

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu May 24, 2018 11:00 pm

In WA it hinges on whether or not defendant either contests/admits claim (or even responds) and b, whether she appears in court. The actual doc service is handled by crt officers whereas in most other jurisdictions it's done by process servers who then provide an Affidavit of Service.
Enforcement orders vary by location but things like Attachment of earnings requires a hearing. Not a viable option in this case. Defendant not working and too problematic attaching pensions/benefits (have always advised against).
Best scenario is defendant receives notification of pending hearing, realizes urgency of matterr, and pays OP.
Some debtors need more motivation than others.
Mmm, SunTour

fat and old
Posts: 3778
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby fat and old » Fri May 25, 2018 7:12 am

Do the legalities of the incident matter here? Should the OP make sure there's some record of her causing this through an illegal activity?

hunch
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:06 am

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby hunch » Fri May 25, 2018 7:35 am

I've had a couple of no 3rd party property insurance idiots in the past - not bicycles though. In that era, in NSW at least, it needed 2 letters of demand, as a first and second reminder, then a hearing with a magistrate. One paid his cheque the day before the hearing, stuffing me up for work the next day naturally. Second guy was unemployed of foreign extraction, got a cursory amount from him initially, then nothing as he disappeared off the face of the earth apparently.

I do remember a mate telling of an apprentice mechanic back in the 70s who was studying at Tafe with him, near destroying a Bentley in his uninsured heap....and his payment plan was around a dollar a week. Wouldn't expect a magistrate to impose much of a hardship on a pensioner either, unless they're a self-funded retiree, so you might have to be pretty patient.

User avatar
find_bruce
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8022
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby find_bruce » Fri May 25, 2018 7:50 am

fat and old wrote:Do the legalities of the incident matter here? Should the OP make sure there's some record of her causing this through an illegal activity?
Road rules & negligence are not the same thing. Even if you are lying in the middle of a road, passed out drunk, a driver is still required to try to avoid running over you

User avatar
Strawburger
Posts: 1713
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:19 pm
Location: Dulwich Hill, Sydney

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby Strawburger » Fri May 25, 2018 8:55 pm

B76 wrote:
To make matters worse the driver is uninsured. )

. Does anyone have any experience with this?

.


Yes.

Call in the (free) lawyers if they don't agree. Go to court if they don't pay. They will send the the sherif if they can't pay and repossess goods. Be prepared to get nothing back.

I had that, it's not nice. You also get to see their financial situation, some things you don't want to see... I saw how much the person was getting in welfare, and how much assets that they "didn't" own. They can afford a car, but not be able to pay a debt that they are liable for.
n=10 (2013 & 2004 roads,2010 track,2x 2009 foldups,1990 hybrid,1992 trainer,2007 rental,1970's step through,1980's zeus)

User avatar
10speedsemiracer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:38 pm
Location: Melbourne, in the suburbs, near some hills

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Fri May 25, 2018 9:16 pm

Strawburger wrote:
B76 wrote:
To make matters worse the driver is uninsured. )

. Does anyone have any experience with this?

.


Yes.

Call in the (free) lawyers if they don't agree. Go to court if they don't pay. They will send the the sherif if they can't pay and repossess goods. Be prepared to get nothing back.

I had that, it's not nice. You also get to see their financial situation, some things you don't want to see... I saw how much the person was getting in welfare, and how much assets that they "didn't" own. They can afford a car, but not be able to pay a debt that they are liable for.


Welcome to the wonderful world of debt recovery. ....after a while it can cause a person to become jaded (at best) or an anti-social racist (at worst).
Mmm, SunTour

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby Nate » Tue May 29, 2018 1:09 pm

Went to small claims to sue a pedestrian (who was a lawyer!) i had a collision with.

Dont over do it on research! I wasted so much of my life doing this.
Its a simple, clear facts based assessment they're looking to do:
- did the accident happen?
- who was at fault?
- proof of costs
and they'll decide from there.
Its very low key & informal, they just look at evidence & make orders - no back & forth stuff.

Be VERY careful when serving the other person!!!
Do NOT use the courts registered post - my guy just claimed he didnt get the registered mail & the courts keep no evidence. Either use a sheriff ($80 & i also saw that it was thrown out when invalid), or serve the person yourself - use a video camera to record as proof.


Do you have any record of phone conversations & agreements between you & the oldie? If not, diary entries, notes about contact & what was said.
repairs/quotes - how much time did you spend doing this? whats your hourly rate at work? distance traveled? (wear & tear on your car - use the ATO calculator), alternative transport without bike... add it ALL

Include ABSOLUTELY everything, every second of your time & effort & costs.

B76
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:12 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby B76 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:40 am

So just an update: the bike is with the frame repair specialist. Even though the drivers argument that the frame was not damaged was not valid, I had no proof that it was a write off, as both quotes only recommended replacement due to unknown extent of the damage.

The damage is now confirmed by a carbon fibre repairer and they are doing a quote for repair including paint. Once I have the full costs I will send a new letter of demand with paperwork and follow up with legal action as required. No more discounted settlement on offer from my end now however.

Really, really pissed that I have to go to all this trouble and am without a commuter for so long.

User avatar
Ross
Posts: 5394
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:53 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby Ross » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:22 am

A sort of related story. I once had a car crash where a young lady pulled out of a driveway (of a smash repair business! :P )) and T-boned the side of my car. We both stopped to exchange details and she seemed genuinely sorry but asked if she could say her boyfriend was driving (his car I think but he wasn't present) as she didn't have any points left on her licence. I said whatever, as long as I get my car repaired/money. I gave her my phone number and said ring me with whatever story you come up with so when I report the crash to the cops we are both telling the same story.

I never received a phone call from her so the next day I went and reported the crash to the cops (without the bit about changing drivers). I then sent her a couple of letters of demand after getting 3 quotes from smash repairers and photographing the damage to my car and the accident site, as she didn't reply or disputed the claim (I think my claim was around $1500) .

Ended up going to small claims and she rocks up with a solicitor in tow, I can't afford and didn't think I needed one as I thought it was clear cut that she had failed to give way when pulling out of a driveway. They had nothing prepared, no details of the crash, no damage quotes for their vehicle, basically nothing. As I mentioned, I had 3 quotes for the damage, photos of the damage and the crash site and mentoned that she was leaving the smash repair business after getting a quote for damage to her/boyfriend's car for the previous accident she had. Long story short, the magistrate ruled that we should just pay our own costs, case dismissed.

User avatar
Ross
Posts: 5394
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:53 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby Ross » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:31 am

You may be better off to take the money offered for the wheels rather than go to court to try and recover money for the frame as well.

If say the total costs to you for wheels and frame was say $1000 then the magistrate can award a lower figure (supposing you win...see my previous post) which may only be the cost of the wheels anyway.

And then, as somebody previously mentioned, they can elect to go on a payment plan of a few dollars a week. Then they might decide to stop paying and then you will have to go to court again and have another payment plan made that, again, they may or may not stick with.

Very unlikely the courts will take money from their wages or seize property to sell.

User avatar
10speedsemiracer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:38 pm
Location: Melbourne, in the suburbs, near some hills

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:22 pm

Ross wrote:You may be better off to take the money offered for the wheels rather than go to court to try and recover money for the frame as well.

If say the total costs to you for wheels and frame was say $1000 then the magistrate can award a lower figure (supposing you win...see my previous post) which may only be the cost of the wheels anyway.

And then, as somebody previously mentioned, they can elect to go on a payment plan of a few dollars a week. Then they might decide to stop paying and then you will have to go to court again and have another payment plan made that, again, they may or may not stick with.

Very unlikely the courts will take money from their wages or seize property to sell.


WA has a slightly different process, compared to other states and Instalment Orders and Warrants etc. The Minor Case Claim format in WA is more similar to things like Small Claims Tribunal or VCAT, except administered by a proper Court and Magistrate, not a Tribunal and Referee.

For the defendant to receive an Instalment Order (or the WA equivalent) they will need to appear and I doubt very much that they/she will. This process at least gives OP a formalized recognition of her loss, and an instrument that is then enforceable, either by Warrant or whatever. Right now OP has nothing.

Total cost of the process (in WA) appears to be less than $300 or so. If OP is facing a $2k+ loss, which is my understanding, then it's worth proceeding. Likely that costs will be awarded in any case, so will form part of the ongoing debt.
Mmm, SunTour

B76
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:12 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby B76 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:53 am

So, I have the bike back from the repairers. Thankfully due to no major structural damage the frame was repaired and wheels replaced for a very palatable $1,300 odd.

Have now sent the invoice (which I have paid already) to the lady for reconsideration. If they again refuse I will proceed with the legal bits.

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6152
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:18 am

Thoglette wrote:
PA wrote:Registration barely covers it's own costs, as such it is not a revenue raiser for the g'vt.

Are you sure on that?

I ask because on a number of occasions WA governments have tried to move MVIT excess funds to Consolidated Revenue Fund on the basis that the reserves were on excess of any reasonably expected jump in third party claims. Charlie Court tried to do it several decades ago and I recall at least once in more recent times another WA state government tried to do the same. (They may even have been successful though I don't know.) And I don't think any WA government has reduced premiums arising out of those excesses, they just keep collecting them.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

Jmuzz
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:42 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:46 am

The insurance part is different to rego fee part.
The NSW privatised CTP is the same, they were collecting higher premiums than they were paying out and claiming it is a buffer for future payouts.

User avatar
10speedsemiracer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:38 pm
Location: Melbourne, in the suburbs, near some hills

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:57 am

B76 wrote:So, I have the bike back from the repairers. Thankfully due to no major structural damage the frame was repaired and wheels replaced for a very palatable $1,300 odd.

Have now sent the invoice (which I have paid already) to the lady for reconsideration. If they again refuse I will proceed with the legal bits.


Good news that it was repairable. Hope the other party ponies up some $s. Good luck.
Mmm, SunTour

HenryCharlie
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:40 pm
Location: Reservoir

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby HenryCharlie » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:57 pm

B76 wrote:So, I have the bike back from the repairers. Thankfully due to no major structural damage the frame was repaired and wheels replaced for a very palatable $1,300 odd.


Hopefully they cough up the money soon for you.
I overtook some people going uphill once.

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6152
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:55 pm

No mention I can see of reporting the incident to the police. Did you? Did they?
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

B76
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:12 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby B76 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:35 pm

G’day Colin, the accident was reported to police by me. I can only assume the driver did the same as there was injury involved albeit minor, and the total damage for car and bike is now probably right around the $3k mark, if not less.

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6152
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Hit by an uninsured driver

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:30 pm

B76 wrote:G’day Colin, the accident was reported to police by me. I can only assume the driver did the same as there was injury involved albeit minor, and the total damage for car and bike is now probably right around the $3k mark, if not less.

Good. Always something to do, even if a cop tries to talk you out of it.

And if she did NOT report it, it usually enhances your position (so I understand).

Good luck.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Duck18, TonyB