Fined for using the mobile while riding

fat and old
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby fat and old » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:28 pm

human909 wrote:
(Why cyclists are at all considered even close to similar to motor vehicles is beyond me. Yet this notion persists strongly in Australia when is comes to rules and responsibilities.)


Because they use the same infrastructure?

NASHIE
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby NASHIE » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:56 pm

fat and old wrote:
human909 wrote:
(Why cyclists are at all considered even close to similar to motor vehicles is beyond me. Yet this notion persists strongly in Australia when is comes to rules and responsibilities.)


Because they use the same infrastructure?


And have to abide by essentialy the same rules when using the same infrastructure.

BJL
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby BJL » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:12 pm

Jmuzz wrote:
human909 wrote:How did you jump to that conclusion?


You feel that a car touching a phone while stationary in park 5 cars back at the lights is more dangerous than a cyclist using phone at 20kph?



"A car touching a phone"? Are you sure about that?

human909
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby human909 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:56 pm

fat and old wrote:
human909 wrote:(Why cyclists are at all considered even close to similar to motor vehicles is beyond me. Yet this notion persists strongly in Australia when is comes to rules and responsibilities.)

Because they use the same infrastructure?

I'm not sure how that matters. It certainly doesn't matter in many other countries and for a long time it didn't matter here. (And it many aspects of the laws it still doesn't matter, this notion that cyclists should be subject to the same rules and fines as motorists seems a more recent phenomenon. For a very long time this wasn't the case.)

Pedestrians also use the same infrastructure. So do horse riders. The road infrastructure and the road rules cover footpaths, nature strips and a whole bunch of areas including areas where motor vehicles are not allowed. Sure there exists sepparated infrastructure for motorvehicles, pedestrians, cyclists, buses and even horse riders but what does that have to do with things?

NASHIE wrote:And have to abide by essentialy the same rules when using the same infrastructure.

Except that isn't true. There are significant sections of the road rules dedicated for cyclists and pedestrians. There are other extensive pieces of legislation that runs alongside the road rules that basically don't even apply to cyclists. Eg in Victoria the "Road Safety Act" runs at 857 pages.
Given that alcohol consumption basically isn't even mentioned in the 'Road Rules' one would suggest the "Road Safety Act" is pretty damn important part of the broader rules.
Last edited by human909 on Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Scintilla
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby Scintilla » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:58 pm

fat and old wrote:
human909 wrote:
(Why cyclists are at all considered even close to similar to motor vehicles is beyond me. Yet this notion persists strongly in Australia when is comes to rules and responsibilities.)


Because they use the same infrastructure?

B-doubles and motor scooters use the same infrastructure as well, yet they have significantly different road rules applying to each.

Scintilla
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby Scintilla » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:07 pm

NASHIE wrote: But from the west coast side of the country, the dream of a commute in your chic designer suit while checking a few emails on your single speed are just wild dreams, fines or no fines.

You need to come and have a look at the inner northern suburbs of Melbourne, for that bicycling nirvana is well underway. And much of the western suburbs and south-east could also become like this with a bit more local government encouragement, and road infrastructure that encourages bicycle use rather than mass-auto.

Then you should go and campaign for environmentally-sustainable urban design in Perth's suburbs, as the road you are currently riding and driving may well be paved with camel dung.
Last edited by AUbicycles on Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: mod edit - very clever change of one word to make it friendlier

human909
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby human909 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:27 pm

NASHIE wrote:But from the west coast side of the country, the dream of a commute in your chic designer suit while checking a few emails on your single speed are just wild dreams, fines or no fines.

The biggest barrier is the political and social will to make the necessary changes.

I would agree that to see this change in many parts of Australia are wild dreams. But that doesn't make it impossible. And it is certainly more frustrating when fellow cyclists push back against notions of making cycling safer, easier and more palatable to the wider community.

The Dutch CHOSE to promote bicycles. Just like Melbourne Council and Yarra Council. And you know what. Those wild dreams have come true because of this.


I'm won't claim to be an expert on the west coast side of this country. But that is where I learnt to cycle and when I did it wasn't considered an outlier activity.

NASHIE
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby NASHIE » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:28 pm

human909 wrote:

The biggest barrier is the political and social will to make the necessary changes.
[/quote]

Add to that terrain, climate and the urban design in a majority of Australia and your dreaming.
I think we just have disagree on the phone fine. You don't like it, i don't think its anti cyclist or a deterrent to get people on bikes, it doesn't make riding a bike 'less' safe and i don't ride with phone so i really don't care. I often don't ride with helmet so thats my contribution to your dutch dream. Although its other cyclist pointing to their head in disgust that makes me think MHL repeal in WA is a long way off :cry:

fat and old
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby fat and old » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:35 am

human909 wrote:
fat and old wrote:
human909 wrote:(Why cyclists are at all considered even close to similar to motor vehicles is beyond me. Yet this notion persists strongly in Australia when is comes to rules and responsibilities.)

Because they use the same infrastructure?

I'm not sure how that matters. It certainly doesn't matter in many other countries and for a long time it didn't matter here. (And it many aspects of the laws it still doesn't matter, this notion that cyclists should be subject to the same rules and fines as motorists seems a more recent phenomenon. For a very long time this wasn't the case.)

Pedestrians also use the same infrastructure. So do horse riders. The road infrastructure and the road rules cover footpaths, nature strips and a whole bunch of areas including areas where motor vehicles are not allowed. Sure there exists sepparated infrastructure for motorvehicles, pedestrians, cyclists, buses and even horse riders but what does that have to do with things?


scintilla wrote:B-doubles and motor scooters use the same infrastructure as well, yet they have significantly different road rules applying to each.


As you've pointed out H....close, and similar. As you've said there are obvious differences between the various aspects of the road reserve and those who use them.

My assumption is that the rules and regulations for the use of the road reserve are put in place so that we can all co-habit and use that space together in the safest, most efficient manner (I know, but this isn't a dissertation on what constitutes "safest", "most efficient" or whatever. It's merely what I think is the answer to your question). These are changed over time to reflect changes in technology, priorities, numbers and volumes of road users....a whole heap of things. Different users will have different regs applied in some cases, all users may have the same regs applied in others. Looking at the system in isolation with reference to one group of users won't work because the system is multi faceted. Comparing groups of users will not always work due to their differing requirements, uses of and effects on the system. The regulators make the best system they can whilst trying to keep all groups safe, efficient and happy. There will always be anomalies and absurdities primarily due to change (technology, social, environmental et al); that is why the regs are updated and modified.

That's what I assume, anyway. Not for arguments sake; because it makes sense to me.

Edit. You know what? That's actually a freakin good answer. For once you could agree with me!! :lol:
Last edited by fat and old on Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

human909
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby human909 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:01 pm

I'll give you that. :wink: I could add more but too busy to reply.

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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby MichaelB » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:37 pm

Are people STILL carrying on about this ?

Jeepers

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