Fined for using the mobile while riding

[fat and old]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-2 ... g/10029122

[Cyclophiliac]

Traffic Enforcement Group Inspector Mike Sparkman said under WA laws in place since 2011, motorists and cyclists were treated the same when it came to mobile phone usage.

... which is stupidity, given that the potential for harm to others is so much higher for motorists.

[Cheesewheel]

Traffic Enforcement Group Inspector Mike Sparkman said under WA laws in place since 2011, motorists and cyclists were treated the same when it came to issuing fines.

... which is stupidity, given that the potential for harm to others is so much higher for motorists.

Fixed that for you.

[ColinOldnCranky]

Traffic Enforcement Group Inspector Mike Sparkman said under WA laws in place since 2011, motorists and cyclists were treated the same when it came to mobile phone usage.

... which is stupidity, given that the potential for harm to others is so much higher for motorists.

Yeah. And the potential for trucks is even greater. So applying that test how about we give cars a free pass.

And while we're using that logic, how about giving even those errant truckers pulling a hundred tonnes at 100kp a free pass too. After all, the potential for harm from a commercial aircraft is even greater again!

Come on, cyclists owe the public a duty of care too.

I'll leave you with Pedestrian deaths caused by Cyclists

[biker jk]

Traffic Enforcement Group Inspector Mike Sparkman said under WA laws in place since 2011, motorists and cyclists were treated the same when it came to mobile phone usage.

... which is stupidity, given that the potential for harm to others is so much higher for motorists.

Yeah. And the potential for trucks is even greater. So applying that test how about we give cars a free pass.

And while we're using that logic, how about giving even those errant truckers pulling a hundred tonnes at 100kp a free pass too. After all, the potential for harm from a commercial aircraft is even greater again!

Come on, cyclists owe the public a duty of care too.

I'll leave you with Pedestrian deaths caused by Cyclists

Straw man. It's not about a free pass but fines reflecting the relative consequences of the bad behaviour. Truck drivers are fined much more for speeding offences than car drivers. It makes no sense to fine cyclists the same as motorists.

[ColinOldnCranky]

... which is stupidity, given that the potential for harm to others is so much higher for motorists.

Yeah. And the potential for trucks is even greater. So applying that test how about we give cars a free pass.

And while we're using that logic, how about giving even those errant truckers pulling a hundred tonnes at 100kp a free pass too. After all, the potential for harm from a commercial aircraft is even greater again!

Come on, cyclists owe the public a duty of care too.

I'll leave you with Pedestrian deaths caused by Cyclists

Straw man. It's not about a free pass but fines reflecting the relative consequences of the bad behaviour. Truck drivers are fined much more for speeding offences than car drivers. It makes no sense to fine cyclists the same as motorists.

Point taken Biker. However I wonder if we'd offer the same comment about a motorist fined for using his phone while waiting at the lights?

[macca33]

This is where so many people make futile attempts to justify their malfeasance, whilst soapboxing whenever someone else does the wrong thing.

You either abide by the laws, or you don't. If you're silly enough to get caught breaching a law, then cop your whack.

Using the phone on a bike is not only dangerous, but unlawful - full stop.....

[Ancientflatulence]

My imagination does not enable me to see without doubt the impending consequences of my actions ........ only that my actions may be hazardous to myself and others in the event of something unplanned occurring (this is of key importance in minimising accidents) .......... and my certain knowledge informs me that my actions are against the road rules that I am completely aware that I am breaking ......... but I am still going to whinge because I am a cyclist and therefore should not have to obey the same rules or pay the same fines as other road users because .... ummm ..... errrrr ....... they are bigger than me.

If Madam mobile user has a wee whoopsie whilst chatting because she is not paying attention and does not have complete control of her bicycle and only the use of half of her braking because she is one handed and veers into the path of a car or a truck ....... and if that other vehicle instinctively swerves to avoid killing her and runs over the entire local cycling club training ride who are coming the other way at just the wrong moment ...... who shall we pillory?

I can swerve and brake my car nearly as quickly one handed as with two hands ....... not perfect but not too bad .......... but can any cyclist honestly make the came claim .......... those with steel wrists and only back-pedal brakes excluded ......... so who actually is more likely to lose control whilst blabbing on the phone?

[human909]

In the Netherlands riding while on the phone and riding while intoxicated are common occurrences. The sky does not fall in, cyclist are far safer.

Seriously forget this notion of equivalence. Or are you going to start saying pedestrians shouldn't walk on the footpath with a BAC over 0.05 or while using a mobile phone.

This is where so many people make futile attempts to justify their malfeasance

This is where somebody assertively claims that riding while using a mobile phone is "malfeasance" as though there is no debate or discussion.

".

[diggler]

A cyclist riding with one hand on a phone while in a conversation could easily be hit by a motor vehicle.

As cyclists we shouldn't just have a knee jerk reaction and oppose everything that penalises a cyclist. We should be responsible adults.

[bychosis]

Using a phone significantly distracts you from your other tasks. The law is there to protect us from ourselves and help to lower hospital costs.

Yes, I’ve answered my phone while riding. Yes, it reduced my concentration on riding so I won’t do it in traffic. Yes, I’d be upset if I copped a fine for it while riding along a share path with no one else around (but luckily I’d have a helmet and usually a bike with a bell to reduce the fines)

[Cyclophiliac]

Traffic Enforcement Group Inspector Mike Sparkman said under WA laws in place since 2011, motorists and cyclists were treated the same when it came to mobile phone usage.

... which is stupidity, given that the potential for harm to others is so much higher for motorists.

Yeah. And the potential for trucks is even greater. So applying that test how about we give cars a free pass.

And while we're using that logic, how about giving even those errant truckers pulling a hundred tonnes at 100kp a free pass too. After all, the potential for harm from a commercial aircraft is even greater again!

Come on, cyclists owe the public a duty of care too.

I'll leave you with Pedestrian deaths caused by Cyclists

You missed the point of my post. I was simply objecting to the fact that cyclists are fined the same amount as motorists. Any equitable fining scheme would fine motorists several times more than cyclists, because motor vehicles are so much more dangerous than bicycles. As for the aircraft analogy, how on earth is that relevant, since we're discussing the application of fines for road laws?

[human909]

Using a phone significantly distracts you from your other tasks. The law is there to protect us from ourselves and help to lower hospital costs.

Yep. Thanks nanny state. Along with helmets we need to be protected from ourselves. Oh and lowering hospital costs, surely you jest that is not at all a motivation nor does it have any evidence to support it.

A cyclist riding with one hand on a phone while in a conversation could easily be hit by a motor vehicle.

A cyclist riding with one hand on a phone while in a conversation could easily be attacked by a grizzly bear. Whether it is likely enough to warrant legislation against it is another question entirely.

We should be responsible adults.

As responsible adults we should be allowed responsibility for ourselves.

We don't have excessive restrictions on the way pedestrians conduct themselves on our roadways, why should we have excessive restrictions for cyclists?

Have a look at how the Dutch ride.
-one the phone
-one handed or no handed
-multiple people on a bicycle
-riding while intoxicated
All pretty normal activity in Holland yet vastly lower injury rates.

[Thoglette]

We don't have excessive restrictions on the way pedestrians conduct themselves on our roadways

I argue that we do (check the model regulations) but it's not as bad as the US. Fortunately we don't have any Operation Pedestri-dro type silliness. But the rules are still on the books.

[Mububban]

Have a look at how the Dutch ride.
-one the phone
-one handed or no handed
-multiple people on a bicycle
-riding while intoxicated
All pretty normal activity in Holland yet vastly lower injury rates.

Speaking of false equivalence, you can't compare riding in the Netherlands with their segregated infrastructure, general "cycling aware" attitude and assumed bike handling skills/awareness, to Aussies riding distracted on the road or on a footpath that crosses countless driveways where cars can back out etc.

This is like the bloke who whinged about getting fined for running a stop sign on his bike. We're all "pro bike" here naturally, but if someone does something illegal or dangerous or stupid while on a bike, we've still got to call them out on it.

Would you be okay if the fine was only $200? At what financial price point would you be okay with it being enforced at all?

The police twitter message said she was also riding without a helmet which is mandatory in WA, so the $400 fine is probably a combo of the two offences.

[human909]

Speaking of false equivalence, you can't compare riding in the Netherlands with their segregated infrastructure, general "cycling aware" attitude and assumed bike handling skills/awareness, to Aussies riding distracted on the road or on a footpath that crosses countless driveways where cars can back out etc.

Ah! That old chestnut. Australia is different so we need different laws argument.

The Netherlands is different BECAUSE of their different laws and the way they regulate and provide for cyclists.

Oh and BTW, the bulk of the cycling infrastructure in holland is the ROAD NETWORK. Not segregated infrastructure.

This is like the bloke who whinged about getting fined for running a stop sign on his bike. We're all "pro bike" here naturally, but if someone does something illegal or dangerous or stupid while on a bike, we've still got to call them out on it.

Do we? Is rolling through a STOP sign after looking dangerous or stupid? Other places cope with it just fine. And no, I don't think we need to 'call people' out breaking unneeded laws. Do you call out every cyclist you see without a bell?

Would you be okay if the fine was only $200? At what financial price point would you be okay with it being enforced at all?

The police twitter message said she was also riding without a helmet which is mandatory in WA, so the $400 fine is probably a combo of the two offences.

Two unnecessary laws. So I don't support either fine.

[Scott_C]

Would you be okay if the fine was only $200? At what financial price point would you be okay with it being enforced at all?

Well, the fine for no helmet on a motorbike is $550 in WA compared to no helmet on a bike being $50, driving drunk is min $1800 compared to riding a bike drunk at $100, driving recklessly is min $6000 or 9 months imprisonment compared with riding recklessly at $100 so there would seem to be a precedent for a similar ratio in this case.

Do you think riding holding a mobile phone is 4 times worse than riding drunk or recklessly?

Remember also that this is WA where we are legally required to hand signal left turns unlike any other jurisdiction in Australia so the WA road traffic code is OK with requiring cyclists to ride 1 handed more often than anywhere else in Australia.

The police twitter message said she was also riding without a helmet which is mandatory in WA, so the $400 fine is probably a combo of the two offences.

It is 8PU ($400) for just the mobile phone offence.

At the end of the day the law is the law and the rider has broken it and can be penalised accordingly, it doesn't mean that this particular fine is not disproportionate to other cycling offences in WA.

[human909]

I do find it slightly amusing and depressing that we as citizens seem to be so willing to accept government fines for citizens going about their business on the street causing no harm to anybody.

I largely don't think there is any pressing need to fine pedestrians and cyclists for general traffic infractions. Simply put the need is largely not there, especially when nobody is inconvenienced.

Are pedestrians and cyclists faultless? No far from it. But what ends are being achieved by the issuing of these fines? How is society being improved? Saving lives? You probably would have similar non-results by fining people for dangerous ladder use around the home.


Funnily enough society has rarely found the great need for traffic controls and fines for trafficways where motor vehicles don't exist. The common denominator and the common danger is motor vehicles.

[AdelaidePeter]

I do find it slightly amusing and depressing that we as citizens seem to be so willing to accept government fines for citizens going about their business on the street causing no harm to anybody.

I largely don't think there is any pressing need to fine pedestrians and cyclists for general traffic infractions. Simply put the need is largely not there, especially when nobody is inconvenienced.

Are pedestrians and cyclists faultless? No far from it. But what ends are being achieved by the issuing of these fines? How is society being improved? Saving lives? You probably would have similar non-results by fining people for dangerous ladder use around the home.


Funnily enough society has rarely found the great need for traffic controls and fines for trafficways where motor vehicles don't exist. The common denominator and the common danger is motor vehicles.

For one thing: in the CBDs, it prevents a constant stream of pedestrians blocking intersections, so society is improved by having traffic flow more smoothly. If cycling rates were higher, there would be the same issue with cyclists blocking intersections.

[human909]

For one thing: in the CBDs, it prevents a constant stream of pedestrians blocking intersections, so society is improved by having traffic flow more smoothly. If cycling rates were higher, there would be the same issue with cyclists blocking intersections.

You are confusing rules with enforcement.

Do you really think the only thing that stops a constant stream of pedestrians is a cop standing on every corner with their ticket book ready? Do you really think that it is the fear of the ticket that stops people acting this way?

Yep I do think fines are appropriate, on the few odd occasions when;
-a pedestrian/cyclist is breaking the law AND;
-being socially obstructive to traffic AND;
-there is a law enforcement person present

This concurrent occurance of these events are pretty damn slim.

[NASHIE]

Yep I do think fines are appropriate, on the few odd occasions when;
-a pedestrian/cyclist is breaking the law AND;
-being socially obstructive to traffic AND;
-there is a law enforcement person present

This concurrent occurance of these events are pretty damn slim.

Will she fits humans world of law for 2 category's but maybe fails the 'socially obstructive to traffic' element ?. I get it and im sure we are pissed when we get a speeding fine for doing 5kph over the limit, but pay up and get on with it. They should of given her an extra $50 for no helmet .
The whole phone while driving or doing any activity other than standing still is very valid. Seen so many close calls of workers (generally supervisors) walking around in circles taking on the phone and nearly getting backed over by earthworking equipment and im sure there have been deaths. Myself many years ago when taking on the phone while driving, getting off and just not recalling the last 5 mins of the road i had just driven scared the hell out of me. Its just such a dangerous and distractive activity. Riding a bike is no different and none of us know the conditions this lady was caught in. The likely hood of her hitting someone or something herself may have been negligible or if it was in front of school after the siren the odds would be pretty high she could miss and hit a little kid running across a path etc.
If you think $400 is to high then cars fines should be $800-$1000 plus IMO

[Thoglette]

For one thing.

If only it were just one thing. Go read the regulations (either your state or the model ones) and tell me how many are really needed. And how many (if enforced) are vexatious attacks on sensible behaviour.

Particularly when coupled with the mindless actions of traffic "engineers" when setting up pedestrian crossing lights. I've lost count of the times I've seen a red man when the traffic light in the same direction is green - including when there's no opportunity for MVs to turn left.

The rules for pedestrians could be cut down to about three:
a) when travelling along a roadway, walk on the footpath if one is provided
b) when crossing a roadway give way to other road users if crossing against a red light
c) stay off freeways(etc).
Plus the existing one which applies to all road users
d) don't obstruct the roadway (without a permit)

And that's it. But that's not what the rules say.

[human909]

Riding a bike is no different

Yep. Riding a bike is no different. None at all. Bikes killed hundreds of people each year.

[eldavo]

A cyclist riding with one hand on a phone while in a conversation could easily be hit by a motor vehicle.

Nail on the head.
Possibly just as easily as the 50% of cyclist fatalities hit by rear approaching vehicle.
Accidents waiting to happen? Statistically proven! Get off your bike and drive!

[NASHIE]

Riding a bike is no different

Yep. Riding a bike is no different. None at all. Bikes killed hundreds of people each year.

same old chestnut. If the fine saves only one life then its done its job. To stop peddling for 5 min and talk on your phone is hardly a big inconvenience. Cough up the $400 and move on. BTW comparing Holland to Aust is a total waste of time.