Deaths I admit are very rare. But a distracted or careless rider can - and occasionally does - injure a pedestrian, or another rider.human909 wrote:Yep. Riding a bike is no different. None at all. Bikes killed hundreds of people each year.NASHIE wrote:Riding a bike is no different
Fined for using the mobile while riding
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby AdelaidePeter » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:38 pm
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby human909 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:43 pm
Thank you. It seems you managed to pre-empt things and roll your eyes at your of much repeated but flawed argument.NASHIE wrote: same old chestnut. If the fine saves only one life then its done its job.
Yep. If you enjoy the status quo and are happy with poor cycling safety then fine.NASHIE wrote:BTW comparing Holland to Aust is a total waste of time.
Personally I think looking at Holland is EXACTLY what we should be doing if we want to make cyclists safer.
So do distracted pedestrians. But both cases are really so low risk that they don't warrant legislation.AdelaidePeter wrote:Deaths I admit are very rare. But a distracted or careless rider can - and occasionally does - injure a pedestrian, or another rider.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby NASHIE » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:03 pm
human909 wrote: Personally I think looking at Holland is EXACTLY what we should be doing if we want to make cyclists safer.
Yep riding around pissed on our phones without a helmet in Aust is going to be a win win. Two different cultures with vastly different infrastructure. Keep dreaminghuman909 wrote:In the Netherlands riding while on the phone and riding while intoxicated are common occurrences.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby human909 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:28 pm
I will keep dreaming, hoping and fighting for a safer and more accepting society in Australia.NASHIE wrote:Yep riding around pissed on our phones without a helmet in Aust is going to be a win win. Two different cultures with vastly different infrastructure. Keep dreaming
I don't see why I should not dream for a better society for cyclists. I remained puzzled why cyclists in Australia are so willing accept fines and treatment that discourages cyclists and does nothing to make cyclists safer on our roads.
Speaking of which riding around pissed is very common around here (Melbourne's Inner North). Also talking on the phone is certainly not uncommon. "Win-win" as you would say. We have the highest density of cycling participation in Australia.
(Also note I've ridden through RBT several times while under the influence. In this state it is one area where cyclists have similar obligations to pedestrians rather than motorists. )
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby Scintilla » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:51 pm
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby Scintilla » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:53 pm
Yeah, if it saves ONE life, it must be made LAW!NASHIE wrote: same old chestnut. If the fine saves only one life then its done its job.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby NASHIE » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:10 pm
You forgot the roll cage and harness seatbelts. Don't forget guys were only taking about a fine for talking on your phone while riding. Don't think the $400 fine will discourage peeps from riding a bike ?Scintilla wrote:Yeah, if it saves ONE life, it must be made LAW!NASHIE wrote: same old chestnut. If the fine saves only one life then its done its job.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby human909 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:45 pm
Are you should you shouldn't be commenting on a News Corp publication? Nice of you to completely ignore the point being made.NASHIE wrote:You forgot the roll cage and harness seatbelts. Don't forget guys were only taking about a fine for talking on your phone while riding. Don't think the $400 fine will discourage peeps from riding a bike ?Scintilla wrote:Yeah, if it saves ONE life, it must be made LAW!NASHIE wrote: same old chestnut. If the fine saves only one life then its done its job.
The culture of blame towards cyclists has been continuing for at least 30 years. Lets fine cyclists to make them safe rather than provide a safe environment. It continues to this day.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby NASHIE » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:17 pm
Yep completely ignored as my comment was if 'THE' fine, in reference to mobile use whilst riding a bike. I don't see the fine to be hinderance to riding a bike or anti cyclist in any way, seriously whats the big deal ? choose to talk and ride get caught, cough up. We have fines for all sort of BS in Aust. Have a by-election on the weekend and im seriously considering not voting. Fully aware the sky won't fall in but in Aus i will have to pay for my sins.human909 wrote:
Nice of you to completely ignore the point being made.
The culture of blame towards cyclists has been continuing for at least 30 years. Lets fine cyclists to make them safe rather than provide a safe environment. It continues to this day.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby human909 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:31 pm
I think you've answered that yourself.NASHIE wrote:seriously whats the big deal ?
There we go! Thanks for recognising this.NASHIE wrote:We have fines for all sort of BS in Aust.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby MichaelB » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:19 pm
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby Scintilla » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:22 pm
People have actually been fined for making/taking a phone call while stopped by the roadside, straddling the bike, because the polis determined the bike was not parked!!NASHIE wrote:You forgot the roll cage and harness seatbelts. Don't forget guys were only taking about a fine for talking on your phone while riding. Don't think the $400 fine will discourage peeps from riding a bike ?
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby Scintilla » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:25 pm
MichaelB wrote: I honestly can’t believe some of the arguments on here. It’s common sense, or maybe, sense isn’t that common
Really? Common sense eh?
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby fat and old » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:29 am
What a cying ass shame that doesn't exist here aye? It'd be relevant then.Scintilla wrote:MichaelB wrote: I honestly can’t believe some of the arguments on here. It’s common sense, or maybe, sense isn’t that common
Really? Common sense eh?
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby Arbuckle23 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:35 am
And not one helmet was seen. Someone please show this to our law makers so they can come to their sensesScintilla wrote:MichaelB wrote: I honestly can’t believe some of the arguments on here. It’s common sense, or maybe, sense isn’t that common
Really? Common sense eh?
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby P!N20 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:46 am
I don't talk what you're knowing about. *jaunty whistle*human909 wrote:Speaking of which riding around pissed is very common around here (Melbourne's Inner North).
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby Jmuzz » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:33 am
Exactly, it is long established that the full fine applies while sitting stationary in traffic, infact it is how the majority are caught for fines (pre NSW camera rollout) since it's the easiest place to catch people with pedestrian or bike cops.ColinOldnCranky wrote:However I wonder if we'd offer the same comment about a motorist fined for using his phone while waiting at the lights?
There is no case for saying someone on their phone while stopped in gridlock is more dangerous than a cyclist one handed at 20kph. So it's fair enough for the cyclist to pay the same as the car would.
Laws do get stupid when someone straddling a "parked" or pushed bicycle/motorcycle is fined for phone/helmet.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby bychosis » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:40 am
Could have been an expensive little outing. Using phone, ride on crossing, no bell.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby Scott_C » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:14 pm
As I understand it, if the offender is between the ages of 10 and 14, the prosecution have to prove that they knew their conduct was wrong before they can show criminal responsibility and I doubt that the police prosecutor would find taking a 12 year old to court for illegal cycling a suitable use of their and the courts' time. This is covered in highly technical language in NSW Road Rules 2014 Reg 10-1bychosis wrote:Spotted a junior cyclist this morning, probably all of 12.
Although not applicable to your example The WA Road Traffic Code is considerably more succinct:
TL;DR- You can't fine (infringement notice) someone under the age of 14 for breaking the road rules, in order to penalise them at all you need to take them to court and prove that they were criminally responsible which can only be done between the ages of 10 and 14.5 . Infringement notices not to be issued to children under 14
Despite any regulation providing that an offender may be dealt with by way of an infringement notice and a modified penalty, an alleged offender against these regulations, under 14 years of age, is not to be dealt with by way of an infringement notice and modified penalty.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby NASHIE » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:24 pm
In WA i remember a mate getting pinged for rideing through a stop sign at around 12yr old. No fine but from memory he had to do a bike safety workshop. This was 35yr ago and thought it was a good idea at the time. I doubt this sort of education exits anymore ?Scott_C wrote:As I understand it, if the offender is between the ages of 10 and 14, the prosecution have to prove that they knew their conduct was wrong before they can show criminal responsibility and I doubt that the police prosecutor would find taking a 12 year old to court for illegal cycling a suitable use of their and the courts' time. This is covered in highly technical language in NSW Road Rules 2014 Reg 10-1bychosis wrote:Spotted a junior cyclist this morning, probably all of 12.
Although not applicable to your example The WA Road Traffic Code is considerably more succinct:TL;DR- You can't fine (infringement notice) someone under the age of 14 for breaking the road rules, in order to penalise them at all you need to take them to court and prove that they were criminally responsible which can only be done between the ages of 10 and 14.5 . Infringement notices not to be issued to children under 14
Despite any regulation providing that an offender may be dealt with by way of an infringement notice and a modified penalty, an alleged offender against these regulations, under 14 years of age, is not to be dealt with by way of an infringement notice and modified penalty.
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby NASHIE » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:35 pm
Yes that sux. And maybe that’s more the anti cyclist law enforcer rather than the law itself. As for a dutch cycling utopia. Good luck creating that in similar glass flat area the size of Tasmania, ie your inner city suburbs. But from the west coast side of the country, the dream of a commute in your chic designer suit while checking a few emails on your single speed are just wild dreams, fines or no fines.Scintilla wrote:People have actually been fined for making/taking a phone call while stopped by the roadside, straddling the bike, because the polis determined the bike was not parked!!NASHIE wrote:You forgot the roll cage and harness seatbelts. Don't forget guys were only taking about a fine for talking on your phone while riding. Don't think the $400 fine will discourage peeps from riding a bike ?
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby human909 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:07 pm
How did you jump to that conclusion?Jmuzz wrote:So it's fair enough for the cyclist to pay the same as the car would.
Does your same logic apply to pedestrians or horse riders on roads and road related areas?
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby Jmuzz » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:13 pm
You feel that a car touching a phone while stationary in park 5 cars back at the lights is more dangerous than a cyclist using phone at 20kph?human909 wrote: How did you jump to that conclusion?
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding
Postby human909 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:12 pm
No. But that isn't the the argument. Though it could be an argument for discretionary application of the law on motorists if that is your approach and attitude.Jmuzz wrote:You feel that a car touching a phone while stationary in park 5 cars back at the lights is more dangerous than a cyclist using phone at 20kph?
Your argument was placing near equivalency between operators of motor vehicles and cyclists. I believe that is a false equivalency. A closer equivalency should be cyclists and pedestrians.
(Why cyclists are at all considered even close to similar to motor vehicles is beyond me. Yet this notion persists strongly in Australia when is comes to rules and responsibilities.)
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