Fined for using the mobile while riding

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby AdelaidePeter » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:38 pm

human909 wrote:
NASHIE wrote:Riding a bike is no different
Yep. Riding a bike is no different. None at all. Bikes killed hundreds of people each year. :roll:
Deaths I admit are very rare. But a distracted or careless rider can - and occasionally does - injure a pedestrian, or another rider.

human909
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby human909 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:43 pm

NASHIE wrote: :roll: same old chestnut. If the fine saves only one life then its done its job.
Thank you. It seems you managed to pre-empt things and roll your eyes at your of much repeated but flawed argument.
NASHIE wrote:BTW comparing Holland to Aust is a total waste of time.
Yep. If you enjoy the status quo and are happy with poor cycling safety then fine.

Personally I think looking at Holland is EXACTLY what we should be doing if we want to make cyclists safer.
AdelaidePeter wrote:Deaths I admit are very rare. But a distracted or careless rider can - and occasionally does - injure a pedestrian, or another rider.
So do distracted pedestrians. But both cases are really so low risk that they don't warrant legislation.

NASHIE
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby NASHIE » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:03 pm

human909 wrote: Personally I think looking at Holland is EXACTLY what we should be doing if we want to make cyclists safer.
human909 wrote:In the Netherlands riding while on the phone and riding while intoxicated are common occurrences.
Yep riding around pissed on our phones without a helmet in Aust is going to be a win win. Two different cultures with vastly different infrastructure. Keep dreaming

human909
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby human909 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:28 pm

NASHIE wrote:Yep riding around pissed on our phones without a helmet in Aust is going to be a win win. Two different cultures with vastly different infrastructure. Keep dreaming
I will keep dreaming, hoping and fighting for a safer and more accepting society in Australia. :mrgreen:

I don't see why I should not dream for a better society for cyclists. I remained puzzled why cyclists in Australia are so willing accept fines and treatment that discourages cyclists and does nothing to make cyclists safer on our roads.

Speaking of which riding around pissed is very common around here (Melbourne's Inner North). Also talking on the phone is certainly not uncommon. "Win-win" as you would say. We have the highest density of cycling participation in Australia.

(Also note I've ridden through RBT several times while under the influence. In this state it is one area where cyclists have similar obligations to pedestrians rather than motorists. :wink: )

Scintilla
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby Scintilla » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:51 pm

Riders behaving badly and harming nobody is one of the markers of a mature bicycling society.

Scintilla
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby Scintilla » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:53 pm

NASHIE wrote: :roll: same old chestnut. If the fine saves only one life then its done its job.
Yeah, if it saves ONE life, it must be made LAW!

Image

NASHIE
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby NASHIE » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:10 pm

Scintilla wrote:
NASHIE wrote: :roll: same old chestnut. If the fine saves only one life then its done its job.
Yeah, if it saves ONE life, it must be made LAW!
You forgot the roll cage and harness seatbelts. Don't forget guys were only taking about a fine for talking on your phone while riding. Don't think the $400 fine will discourage peeps from riding a bike ?

human909
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby human909 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:45 pm

NASHIE wrote:
Scintilla wrote:
NASHIE wrote: :roll: same old chestnut. If the fine saves only one life then its done its job.
Yeah, if it saves ONE life, it must be made LAW!
You forgot the roll cage and harness seatbelts. Don't forget guys were only taking about a fine for talking on your phone while riding. Don't think the $400 fine will discourage peeps from riding a bike ?
Are you should you shouldn't be commenting on a News Corp publication? :?: :| Nice of you to completely ignore the point being made.

The culture of blame towards cyclists has been continuing for at least 30 years. Lets fine cyclists to make them safe rather than provide a safe environment. It continues to this day.

NASHIE
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby NASHIE » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:17 pm

human909 wrote:
Nice of you to completely ignore the point being made.

The culture of blame towards cyclists has been continuing for at least 30 years. Lets fine cyclists to make them safe rather than provide a safe environment. It continues to this day.
Yep completely ignored as my comment was if 'THE' fine, in reference to mobile use whilst riding a bike. I don't see the fine to be hinderance to riding a bike or anti cyclist in any way, seriously whats the big deal ? choose to talk and ride get caught, cough up. We have fines for all sort of BS in Aust. Have a by-election on the weekend and im seriously considering not voting. Fully aware the sky won't fall in but in Aus i will have to pay for my sins.

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby AdelaidePeter » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:56 pm

nvm

human909
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby human909 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:31 pm

NASHIE wrote:seriously whats the big deal ?
I think you've answered that yourself.
NASHIE wrote:We have fines for all sort of BS in Aust.
There we go! Thanks for recognising this.

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MichaelB
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:19 pm

:roll: I honestly can’t believe some of the arguments on here. It’s common sense, or maybe, sense isn’t that common
:roll:

Scintilla
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby Scintilla » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:22 pm

NASHIE wrote:You forgot the roll cage and harness seatbelts. Don't forget guys were only taking about a fine for talking on your phone while riding. Don't think the $400 fine will discourage peeps from riding a bike ?
People have actually been fined for making/taking a phone call while stopped by the roadside, straddling the bike, because the polis determined the bike was not parked!! :roll: :roll: :x

Scintilla
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby Scintilla » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:25 pm

MichaelB wrote::roll: I honestly can’t believe some of the arguments on here. It’s common sense, or maybe, sense isn’t that common
:roll:

Really? Common sense eh?


fat and old
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby fat and old » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:29 am

Scintilla wrote:
MichaelB wrote::roll: I honestly can’t believe some of the arguments on here. It’s common sense, or maybe, sense isn’t that common
:roll:

Really? Common sense eh?

What a cying ass shame that doesn't exist here aye? It'd be relevant then.

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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby Arbuckle23 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:35 am

Scintilla wrote:
MichaelB wrote::roll: I honestly can’t believe some of the arguments on here. It’s common sense, or maybe, sense isn’t that common
:roll:

Really? Common sense eh?

And not one helmet was seen. Someone please show this to our law makers so they can come to their senses :roll:

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P!N20
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby P!N20 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:46 am

human909 wrote:Speaking of which riding around pissed is very common around here (Melbourne's Inner North).
I don't talk what you're knowing about. *jaunty whistle*

Jmuzz
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby Jmuzz » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:33 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:However I wonder if we'd offer the same comment about a motorist fined for using his phone while waiting at the lights?
Exactly, it is long established that the full fine applies while sitting stationary in traffic, infact it is how the majority are caught for fines (pre NSW camera rollout) since it's the easiest place to catch people with pedestrian or bike cops.

There is no case for saying someone on their phone while stopped in gridlock is more dangerous than a cyclist one handed at 20kph. So it's fair enough for the cyclist to pay the same as the car would.

Laws do get stupid when someone straddling a "parked" or pushed bicycle/motorcycle is fined for phone/helmet.

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bychosis
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby bychosis » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:40 am

Spotted a junior cyclist this morning, probably all of 12. Rode across at the ped crossing lights outside the school while and looked at his phone a couple of times while doing so. Had a helmet on, not sure about a bell as I didn't think to look closely, but by the look of his BMX it probably wouldn't have one.

Could have been an expensive little outing. Using phone, ride on crossing, no bell.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

Scott_C
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby Scott_C » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:14 pm

bychosis wrote:Spotted a junior cyclist this morning, probably all of 12.
As I understand it, if the offender is between the ages of 10 and 14, the prosecution have to prove that they knew their conduct was wrong before they can show criminal responsibility and I doubt that the police prosecutor would find taking a 12 year old to court for illegal cycling a suitable use of their and the courts' time. This is covered in highly technical language in NSW Road Rules 2014 Reg 10-1

Although not applicable to your example The WA Road Traffic Code is considerably more succinct:
5 . Infringement notices not to be issued to children under 14
Despite any regulation providing that an offender may be dealt with by way of an infringement notice and a modified penalty, an alleged offender against these regulations, under 14 years of age, is not to be dealt with by way of an infringement notice and modified penalty.
TL;DR- You can't fine (infringement notice) someone under the age of 14 for breaking the road rules, in order to penalise them at all you need to take them to court and prove that they were criminally responsible which can only be done between the ages of 10 and 14.

NASHIE
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby NASHIE » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:24 pm

Scott_C wrote:
bychosis wrote:Spotted a junior cyclist this morning, probably all of 12.
As I understand it, if the offender is between the ages of 10 and 14, the prosecution have to prove that they knew their conduct was wrong before they can show criminal responsibility and I doubt that the police prosecutor would find taking a 12 year old to court for illegal cycling a suitable use of their and the courts' time. This is covered in highly technical language in NSW Road Rules 2014 Reg 10-1

Although not applicable to your example The WA Road Traffic Code is considerably more succinct:
5 . Infringement notices not to be issued to children under 14
Despite any regulation providing that an offender may be dealt with by way of an infringement notice and a modified penalty, an alleged offender against these regulations, under 14 years of age, is not to be dealt with by way of an infringement notice and modified penalty.
TL;DR- You can't fine (infringement notice) someone under the age of 14 for breaking the road rules, in order to penalise them at all you need to take them to court and prove that they were criminally responsible which can only be done between the ages of 10 and 14.
In WA i remember a mate getting pinged for rideing through a stop sign at around 12yr old. No fine but from memory he had to do a bike safety workshop. This was 35yr ago and thought it was a good idea at the time. I doubt this sort of education exits anymore ?

NASHIE
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby NASHIE » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:35 pm

Scintilla wrote:
NASHIE wrote:You forgot the roll cage and harness seatbelts. Don't forget guys were only taking about a fine for talking on your phone while riding. Don't think the $400 fine will discourage peeps from riding a bike ?
People have actually been fined for making/taking a phone call while stopped by the roadside, straddling the bike, because the polis determined the bike was not parked!! :roll: :roll: :x
Yes that sux. And maybe that’s more the anti cyclist law enforcer rather than the law itself. As for a dutch cycling utopia. Good luck creating that in similar glass flat area the size of Tasmania, ie your inner city suburbs. But from the west coast side of the country, the dream of a commute in your chic designer suit while checking a few emails on your single speed are just wild dreams, fines or no fines.

human909
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby human909 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:07 pm

Jmuzz wrote:So it's fair enough for the cyclist to pay the same as the car would.
How did you jump to that conclusion?

Does your same logic apply to pedestrians or horse riders on roads and road related areas?

Jmuzz
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby Jmuzz » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:13 pm

human909 wrote: How did you jump to that conclusion?
You feel that a car touching a phone while stationary in park 5 cars back at the lights is more dangerous than a cyclist using phone at 20kph?

human909
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Re: Fined for using the mobile while riding

Postby human909 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:12 pm

Jmuzz wrote:You feel that a car touching a phone while stationary in park 5 cars back at the lights is more dangerous than a cyclist using phone at 20kph?
No. But that isn't the the argument. Though it could be an argument for discretionary application of the law on motorists if that is your approach and attitude.

Your argument was placing near equivalency between operators of motor vehicles and cyclists. I believe that is a false equivalency. A closer equivalency should be cyclists and pedestrians.

(Why cyclists are at all considered even close to similar to motor vehicles is beyond me. Yet this notion persists strongly in Australia when is comes to rules and responsibilities.)

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