Agendas in an unfair world

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ColinOldnCranky
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Agendas in an unfair world

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:45 pm

People on roads with an agenda do not belong. I think agendas on the road are more common for with drivers than riders but there are certainly plenty of riders in the mix too.

Punishment passes clearly are idiots giving vent to their agenda as the rider concerned is never one that they have previously encountered.

I consider riders who refuse to move a little left on a cycle path when a pair of riders approach in the opposite direction (followed by eh lone riders loud shout of righteous abuse as they pass) to be acting to an agenda. I see it occasionally on the Kwinana PSP.

I wonder a little about those who regularly post about their near misses, errant drivers, obnoxious others and so forth. The number of issues I have had over around 40 years of biking and unicycling can be counted on my fingers, probably only the fingers of one hand. I don't go out of my way to find fault and I watch and consider multiple possible scenarious all the time and I actively resist forming agendas.

But I also recognize that, even with care, for a vulnerable cyclist things only have to go wrong once so I can understand why a person can become somewhat anal about others they share the space with. And develop an agenda.

With all my care when riding, a couple of evenings ago as a ped I almost collected a turning driver side mirror in the Park Shopping Centre car park (Vic Park, WA). Or more correctly, he would have collected me if I had not done a quick short jump back a moment before contact. I doubt that the bloke knows that I was ever there.

Yep, there is some reason why some riders get to carry an agenda around. When you are vulnerable, a couple of near misses is all that it takes.

(PS I wonder if it had happened to someone else, would they have filed the incident away and made an issue of it at the next family BBQ? I suspect not. But if a cyclist had almost collected them, I suspect that the chances of the story being told would be higher. ATM there are a LOT of people with an agenda against cyclists. But as an optimist I think it is better now than it was, say, five years ago.)
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Cardy George
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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby Cardy George » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:04 pm

100% agree with your musings Colin, everyone has their own reasons.

Sadly, these days it's become so common place that it's hard to see the good things too.

Like when I was riding on a 60kmh road and based on the way I turned my head, the bloke in the car behind me waited while I moved into the right turn lane.

No one shares the good stuff anywhere near as often as it should be.

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby Scintilla » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:09 pm

Two experiences on the commute home today.

1. Riding along a two-lane each way 60 kmh road (narrow lanes), and I was riding out 40% in the lane. Ahead, 400 m, is a stopped bus with hazards flashing. Car approaching 200-300m back toots. Toots again (no other traffic about). Driver continues to toot several more times (he is not driving very fast either ??). I realise he is telling me to get out of 'HIS' lane. I began to move wider, indicating, as I am going to merge to pass the bus (which the driver will need to do as well)). After I have passed the bus the car overtakes me, then 200m further on makes a left turn. Shame, as I would have spoken with him (yes, it was a male) at the lights about the 'faulty horn'.

2. Riding about 1-2 kms later. Road is now one lane each way, one very wide lane, with many cars parked on each side :x As the lane is narrowed I ride wider to avoid the (low) possibility of dooring. Cars behind just have to wait for space and go past slowly as there is oncoming traffic and not much space. A car is approaching (late model SUV ute), and again I hear a toot. But such a big vehicle has even greater problems with space. I observe in the rear-view as the driver 'monsters' me, coming right up close behind. I refuse to move left (not safe, no room). Driver has to slow, then quite deliberately cuts past me as close as possible (est. 15-20 cms max). Snarky comment made out the window by the passenger. YCU 525 btw.

WHO exactly has the 'agenda? WHO has the obligation in such situations?
Last edited by Scintilla on Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby twowheels » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:49 pm


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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:39 am

Is ‘spite’ a useful replacement for ‘agenda’. The later can be positive in the context of setting a good example.

A small adition is that travel is usually a means and usually not the actual goal (or result) but the purpose of travel can be distorted with the ‘spite’ or agenda that shifts behaviour.

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby Trevtassie » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:13 am

twowheels wrote:http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-05/sarah-hanson-young-david-leyonhjelm-civility-in-australia/9935110?pfmredir=sm&sf193165055=1&smid=Page:%20ABC%20News-Facebook_Organic&WT.tsrc=Facebook_Organic


Most of that made sense until he blamed the decline of civility on multiculturalism... Me, I blame it on TV, our politicians and douchebags on AM radio.

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby familyguy » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:11 am

I'm sorta with you Colin. I can count on one hand the number of times I've felt wilfully targeted or endangered, in 30 or so years. That expands to two hands when I take into account those who are just seemingly awful drivers who misjudged a pass or got a corner wrong and unintentionally put me in danger through no fault of my own. Although, I think it has gotten worse for people not paying attention or misjudging things. Vehicle design doesn't help, and distractions sure don't help. I rarely have people come up to me, family or mates or acquaintances, and want to play that game (the "but bikes...safety...blah blah" game).

This is not to diminish people like Drive Safe, Pass Wide (used here as an example in lieu of others) who truly seem to cop agro from morons for no valid reason.

Scintilla wrote:WHO exactly has the 'agenda? WHO has the obligation in such situations?


Often those with the agenda see the 'other' as being responsible for solving it, yeah? Whilst it should be the other way round, it ain't for now.

Jim

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:03 pm

familyguy wrote:Often those with the agenda see the 'other' as being responsible for solving it, yeah? Whilst it should be the other way round, it ain't for now.

Jim

That is a one line pearl of wisdom. The world works as it does, not as we want it to. As I learnt in sport, you act according to what you CAN affect, and leave the umpiring calls - good and bad - to the ump.

Agenda types will pretend otherwise so as to justify their inconsiderate and righteous actions. :evil:
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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby fat and old » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:16 pm

Scintilla wrote:Two experiences on the commute home today.

1. Riding along a two-lane each way 60 kmh road (narrow lanes), and I was riding out 40% in the lane. Ahead, 400 m, is a stopped bus with hazards flashing. Car approaching 200-300m back toots. Toots again (no other traffic about). Driver continues to toot several more times (he is not driving very fast either ??). I realise he is telling me to get out of 'HIS' lane. I began to move wider, indicating, as I am going to merge to pass the bus (which the driver will need to do as well)). After I have passed the bus the car overtakes me, then 200m further on makes a left turn. Shame, as I would have spoken with him (yes, it was a male) at the lights about the 'faulty horn'.


Without having a go....I'm seriously interested here....how did you know he was telling you to get out of the way and not letting you know to go ahead and pass while he gives you space? I only ask because I've done exactly that, then had to use my arms to indicate my intentions as the cyclists assumed I was having a go (which is to be expected tbh). You mentioned he was driving slowly, maybe that's why?

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby Thoglette » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:03 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Is ‘spite’ a useful replacement for ‘agenda’.


While we're in a post-fact, post-modern, post-intellectual, auto-revelation, end-justifies-means time, a little thought into the exact words we chose is still worthwhile. :D

Otherwise the following applies

"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
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Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby Scintilla » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:15 pm

fat and old wrote:Without having a go....I'm seriously interested here....how did you know he was telling you to get out of the way and not letting you know to go ahead and pass while he gives you space? I only ask because I've done exactly that, then had to use my arms to indicate my intentions as the cyclists assumed I was having a go (which is to be expected tbh). You mentioned he was driving slowly, maybe that's why?

The driver's tooting began a good 100-200 m back, in short toots every couple of seconds. At this time I was well back from the bus; it was not a likely concern.

I do also believe that I have had a prior close shave from this driver in the exact same area (familiar car) and he turned left at the same street. On that occasion I was maddened enough to attempt (unsuccessfully) to follow him along the side-street. Maybe I am mistaken, but in this case the tooting was not of the cheerful 'toot-toot, you go ahead' type.

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby antigee » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:32 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:People on roads with an agenda do not belong. I think agendas on the road are more common for with drivers than riders but there are certainly plenty of riders in the mix too.

Punishment passes clearly are idiots giving vent to their agenda as the rider concerned is never one that they have previously encountered..................................



nothing for me to debate there - I'll just pursue my one person agenda to remind people to use "punishment pass AKA cowards pass" in the hope that sooner rather than later it enters general use and has some impact on those that think such an action defends some right rather than reflects a weak mind

to continue a theme “Without knowing the force of words, it is impossible to know more.” ― Confucius

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby human909 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:20 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Is ‘spite’ a useful replacement for ‘agenda’. The later can be positive in the context of setting a good example.


Yes I was a little confused with the use and choice of the word agenda. I understood how it was trying to be used but it didn't seem the appropriate choice. Many of the online definitions that pop up don't even address this uses of agenda at all.

agenda;
noun, formally a plural of agendum, but usually used as a singular with plural a·gen·das or a·gen·da.
a list, plan, outline, or the like, of things to be done, matters to be acted or voted upon, etc.


agenda
NOUN
A list of items to be discussed at a formal meeting.
‘the question of nuclear weapons had been removed from the agenda’
More example sentences
1.1 A plan of things to be done or problems to be addressed.
‘he vowed to put jobs at the top of his agenda’
‘the government had its own agenda’
1.2 The underlying intentions or motives of a particular person or group.
‘Miller has his own agenda and it has nothing to do with football’

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby trailgumby » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:43 pm

My only "agenda" is to get home in one piece.

The only reason Drive Safe Pass Wide seems to be accepted as legitimate is that he has the video to prove it. The reality is that in the areas that many of us ride though, that is also our experience on a daily and weekly basis.

I would love it if I encountered it so rarely as you Colin.

It is improving, but then some rides the idiots seem to come out to play. Like last Saturday I had a turnip in a tradie van try to barge past and overtake me though a single lane roundabout. Before that, the oldest guy in our group (70s) got close shaved by another turnip in a 4WD trayback. Unfortunately the guy between us moved at the wrong moment and the vision required to establish the offence was obscured.

Would it help if I rode a unicycle instead of a drop-bar roadie?

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:42 am

human909 wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Is ‘spite’ a useful replacement for ‘agenda’. The later can be positive in the context of setting a good example.


Yes I was a little confused with the use and choice of the word agenda. I understood how it was trying to be used but it didn't seem the appropriate choice. Many of the online definitions that pop up don't even address this uses of agenda at all.

agenda;
noun, formally a plural of agendum, but usually used as a singular with plural a·gen·das or a·gen·da.
a list, plan, outline, or the like, of things to be done, matters to be acted or voted upon, etc.


agenda
NOUN
A list of items to be discussed at a formal meeting.
‘the question of nuclear weapons had been removed from the agenda’
More example sentences
1.1 A plan of things to be done or problems to be addressed.
‘he vowed to put jobs at the top of his agenda’
‘the government had its own agenda’
1.2 The underlying intentions or motives of a particular person or group.
‘Miller has his own agenda and it has nothing to do with football’


I can't see why you see a need to deny my use of the term. Besides, all that you have really demonstrated is that there are a number of meanings of the term.

A simple google search of "agenda definition" returns without desperately scrolling down the list and from the top two google responses we get
the underlying intentions or motives of a particular person or group.
"Miller has his own agenda and it has nothing to do with football"


And immediately followed by the Cambridge dictionary inclusion of
a secret aim or reason for doing something:
She felt that some of the group had an agenda.
There's no hidden agenda - I'm just trying to help.


Pretty much my use of the term.

"Spite" is too honestly displayed than the real reasons that many use to justify their dislike of us. I use "agenda" as so often those anticycling actions are cloaked in something different, more dog whistling than honest argument. You know the sort, "I'm not racist but..." when we really know otherwise.

Now let's get back on topic.
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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby Howzat » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:30 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:And immediately followed by the Cambridge dictionary inclusion of a secret aim or reason for doing something:

Colin, trying to divine the secret "agendas" of people is the best way to end up missing the forest for the trees. Most people don't have secret agendas. They just have things that matter to them - like not getting close-shaved or left-hooked by morons - that they want to change and like to tell people about.

The alternative is a short road to bloody-minded paranoia, where everyone has an "agenda", the all the news is fake, and no-one listens to you because they've all been brainwashed, brainwashed I tell you.

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby fat and old » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:47 am

Scintilla wrote:
fat and old wrote:Without having a go....I'm seriously interested here....how did you know he was telling you to get out of the way and not letting you know to go ahead and pass while he gives you space? I only ask because I've done exactly that, then had to use my arms to indicate my intentions as the cyclists assumed I was having a go (which is to be expected tbh). You mentioned he was driving slowly, maybe that's why?

The driver's tooting began a good 100-200 m back, in short toots every couple of seconds. At this time I was well back from the bus; it was not a likely concern.

I do also believe that I have had a prior close shave from this driver in the exact same area (familiar car) and he turned left at the same street. On that occasion I was maddened enough to attempt (unsuccessfully) to follow him along the side-street. Maybe I am mistaken, but in this case the tooting was not of the cheerful 'toot-toot, you go ahead' type.


Prior form? Fair enough.

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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:29 pm

Scintilla wrote:... Maybe I am mistaken, but in this case the tooting was not of the cheerful 'toot-toot, you go ahead' type.

You should swap over to a unicycle. Pretty much all I get are toots of the generous kind. :mrgreen:
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Re: Agendas in an unfair world

Postby opik_bidin » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:23 pm

speaking of agenda

when a crash happens to the police, "driver" and "man" is used instead of "car"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-18/p ... d/10135930

meanwhile, if it's a cyclist, "car" is used

https://www.news.com.au/national/south- ... 4fa7bf423c

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