Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

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Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:46 am

Budget Direct contact BNA to ask to promote their Road Safety Week and - Thursday Cycling

https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/interac ... /thursday/

193 cyclists have died on Australian roads in the last five years
Cyclists are one of the types of road users most likely to be seriously injured or worse in the event of a crash. 193 cyclists have died on Australian roads in the last five years.

Cyclists should try to be as visible as possible to other road users, including using reflectors and lights when travelling at night or in low visibility weather. Cyclists should make clear and concise hand signals to alert traffic where they intend to go. Unless there is a no bicycle sign on the footpath, cyclists are allowed to ride on the footpath if they don’t feel confident on the road.

Drivers can help to keep cyclists safe by making sure they give cyclists plenty of room. The law states that a vehicle travelling 60km/h or under must leave 1 meter between themselves and the cyclist. If travelling over 60km/h then the distance kept between the vehicle and cyclist must be 1.5 meters. Drivers are allowed to cross over double lines when passing cyclists but only if it is safe to do so.

Did you know?
Cyclists in Queensland must ride on the left-hand side of a single lane road but may ride in any position within the lane on a multi-lane road.



I am really annoyed by this - a commercial enterprise wants to get brownie points but this simplification overlooks that at-fault tally where drivers are at-fault in over 70% of collisions with bike riders.

It places the onus on bike riders with questionable recommendations - Hi-vis vests are nice if you like them but the studies show they don't specifically makes you more visible to traffic. What makes you visible are thinks like unusual 'visual noise' for example a bike like with an irregular blinking pattern. The whole thing overlooks a basic face that if the Qld was genuinely interested in reducing the injury and deaths to cyclists, they would increase their cycling infrastructure investment beyond the current 1.5%.

hmmmm... if commerce want to benefit from bike association, I feel that they have to be more thoughtful and be prepare to actually help make a change... not just "say some words".

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby human909 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:59 am

I find it a bit annoying but on the whole it really isn't terrible, just the normal run of the mill biases you will find pretty much everywhere. They just had some marketing kid go through the motions for road safety week. Police, councils, state governments all produce similar advice. So I more blame the source and those ultimately responsible.

The bit I don't get: "Cyclists should make clear and concise hand signals to alert traffic where they intend to go." Who are the cyclists out there giving non concise hand signals. Are some cyclists out there conveying the details of their intended trip to Europe? Sounds impressive.

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby fat and old » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:05 am

Maybe they're talking about group rides? I'd personally doubt it, but have been in the position of following a bunch on The Esplanade in Mt Martha...... so no passing happening......and the leads would now and then signal something on the road. To an uninformed driver it looks like a signal to move left/right. It's only happened once to me, so like I say it prob isn't that, but who knows?

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby fat and old » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:08 am

AUbicycles wrote:What makes you visible are thinks like unusual 'visual noise' for example a bike like with an irregular blinking pattern.


What I've noticed the last few weeks driving out of the city after dark is riders wearing those reflective jackets that go all silver in lights. Those things are the best reflective look at me jacket I've ever seen as a car driver. Highly recommend.

Lots of hivis jackets with the reflective stripes too. They work well, regardless of prejudices.

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby MichaelB » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:39 am

AUbicycles wrote:Budget Direct contact BNA to ask to promote their Road Safety Week and - Thursday Cycling



So what did you tell them ?

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby eldavo » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:32 am

Sounds like the description of NAIDOC Week I heard on Bang On recently. No integration, then a poster event, then no integration.

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:01 am

There is no mention of hi-vis vests that I can see. Just lights and reflectors, and I'm sure we can all agree that many cyclists don't use lights when they should.

Also remember this is a campaign for changing behaviour now, so it's not really the time to talk infrastructure.

I agree the recommendations are lopsided though. Especially when one turns to the page on motorists https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/interac ... k/tuesday/ and, in contrast to the pages on cyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians, there are no specific recommendations for motorists at all. (And there are some obvious things they could say, e.g. speeding, phone use, tailgating, etc)

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby Neddysmith » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:10 am

Really it isnt that bad, makes both parties accountable and really who cares if a cyclist is right if they are severely injured or worse, so i would have thought the cyclist should be taking every precaution they can to be visible and give the motorists around them every opportunity to avoid incident.

Ive only been riding seriously probably 18mths now but have seen far too many cyclist just do dumb stuff that not only gives every cyclist out there a bad rep but also put themselves unnecessarily at risk, and for the life of me i cant understand why you would when a car is so much bigger and heavier and will NEVER end well for the cyclist even if they are in the right, its like taking a knife to a gunfight.

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby cogs19 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:29 am

human909 wrote:The bit I don't get: "Cyclists should make clear and concise hand signals to alert traffic where they intend to go."


It's just lazy expression. Google "clear and concise" as a phrase to see its popularity. It makes sense when writing an essay but makes much less sense when applied to traffic signalling. It shows that the copywriter was copying and pasting (at worst) or importing familiar language without truly considering it (at best) to fulfil the brief.

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby P!N20 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:43 am

Neddysmith wrote:so i would have thought the cyclist should be taking every precaution they can to be visible and give the motorists around them every opportunity to avoid incident.


I can wear a billboard, but it won't do anything if old mate has his or her eyes on their phone.

Neddysmith wrote:have seen far too many cyclist just do dumb stuff that not only gives every cyclist out there a bad rep


So how come I see drivers do dumb stuff all the time but it doesn't give all drivers a bad rep?

Neddysmith wrote:a car is so much bigger and heavier and will NEVER end well for the cyclist even if they are in the right.


Exactly. So why can't those bigger and heavier vehicles be a bit more cautious around vulnerable road users?

Neddysmith wrote:its like taking a knife to a gunfight.


Even that analogy depresses me, and it's not just the missing apostrophe.

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby Neddysmith » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:14 pm

P!N20 wrote:I can wear a billboard, but it won't do anything if old mate has his or her eyes on their phone.


Fully agree, but wouldn't you as a cyclist want to do everything you can for your own safety and make yourself as visible as possible considering how vulnerable you are on the roads?

P!N20 wrote:So how come I see drivers do dumb stuff all the time but it doesn't give all drivers a bad rep?


They do, i'm pretty sure everyone knows there are terrible drivers out there but cyclists are already viewed as pests on the road due to differentiation of speed they travel at and inconvenience its causes motorists, so when they do dumb !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! it just reinforces this view to the average motorist.

P!N20 wrote:Even that analogy depresses me, and it's not just the missing apostrophe.


Maybe it does, but its fact, if you do stuff on the road which puts your safety in jeopardy around vehicles regardless if the vehicle is in the right or the wrong then that's precisely what you are doing. If you end up dead does it really mater if you were in the right if you could have avoided that situation?

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby human909 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:41 pm

cogs19 wrote:It's just lazy expression. Google "clear and concise" as a phrase to see its popularity.


Yes. I was being a humorous pedant. About the phrase clear and concise.

It is ironic that by adding 'and concise' to their sentence made their sentence non concise. :wink:

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby P!N20 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:45 pm

Neddysmith wrote:Fully agree, but wouldn't you as a cyclist want to do everything you can for your own safety and make yourself as visible as possible considering how vulnerable you are on the roads?


To what end? That I won't leave the house because it's unsafe to do so? The cars have won.

Neddysmith wrote:They do, i'm pretty sure everyone knows there are terrible drivers out there but cyclists are already viewed as pests on the road due to differentiation of speed they travel at and inconvenience its causes motorists, so when they do dumb !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! it just reinforces this view to the average motorist.


Yes, so maybe Budget Direct could stop the victim blaming and attempt to improve the status of cyclists in the eyes of the average motorist?

P!N20 wrote:Maybe it does, but its fact, if you do stuff on the road which puts your safety in jeopardy around vehicles regardless if the vehicle is in the right or the wrong then that's precisely what you are doing. If you end up dead does it really mater if you were in the right if you could have avoided that situation?


I meant that riding your bike is akin to a fight.

I'm not arguing against riding safely, being visible, etc, etc. What I take issue with (which has been done to death on these forums) is that if I get hit by a car it's my fault because I wasn't wearing hi-viz, a helmet, or the driver didn't see me because it's way too easy to get a license to operate a multi-tonne vehicle and there's no ongoing testing and I'm so important I'm going to run that red light so I can save 30 seconds...

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby human909 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:51 pm

P!N20 wrote:
Neddysmith wrote:its like taking a knife to a gunfight.

Even that analogy depresses me, and it's not just the missing apostrophe.


This can't be emphasised enough. Similarly with comments like "swimming with sharks" etc....

Yes people should always make choices to look after themselves in a world that is not perfect. But the community focus should never depart from the perpetrators of harm.

This applies just as much to motor vehicle drivers as it does to rapists or violent thieves. Responsibility for harm should never be removed or diminished simply because the victims are more vulnerable.

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby kb » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:10 pm

fat and old wrote:What I've noticed the last few weeks driving out of the city after dark is riders wearing those reflective jackets that go all silver in lights. Those things are the best reflective look at me jacket I've ever seen as a car driver. Highly recommend.

Highly recommended for visibility. Pretty crap for breathability.
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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby Thoglette » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:20 pm

P!N20 wrote:[ What I take issue with (which has been done to death on these forums) is that if I get hit by a car it's my fault because I wasn't wearing hi-viz, a helmet, or the driver didn't see me because it's way too easy to get a license to operate a multi-tonne vehicle and there's no ongoing testing and I'm so important I'm going to run that red light so I can save 30 seconds...


This. Again and again.

Cars have headlights and drivers are expected not to run into parked cars, walls, fences, loose cows, small children, dropped loads or rubbish skips.

But somehow "not seeing" a cyclists is an acceptable excuse (e.g. two court cases relating to fatalities in the last year)
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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby uart » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:05 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Budget Direct contact BNA to ask to promote their Road Safety Week and - Thursday Cycling

https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/interac ... /thursday/

Unless there is a no bicycle sign on the footpath, cyclists are allowed to ride on the footpath if they don’t feel confident on the road.


Interesting. Is this Australia wide, or did Budget Direct just make up this law?

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:41 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Budget Direct contact BNA to ask to promote their Road Safety Week and - Thursday Cycling

https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/interac ... /thursday/

The law states that a vehicle travelling 60km/h or under must leave 1 meter between themselves and the cyclist. If travelling over 60km/h then the distance kept between the vehicle and cyclist must be 1.5 meters.



If the driver puts a meter between their vehicle and the cyclist, isn't there a danger of the meter hitting the cyclist? It would be much safer if the meter was securely stored in the car.

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby nezumi » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:00 pm

uart wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Budget Direct contact BNA to ask to promote their Road Safety Week and - Thursday Cycling

https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/interac ... /thursday/

Unless there is a no bicycle sign on the footpath, cyclists are allowed to ride on the footpath if they don’t feel confident on the road.


Interesting. Is this Australia wide, or did Budget Direct just make up this law?


It's not exactly clear, but the piece is written for Queensland Road Safety Week. In QLD all cyclists may ride on the footpath.
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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:20 am

It’s not terrible, but it is a business approach to compiling a bit of content without understanding the landscape.

They did actually respond, to their credit a polite email and defence of the approach but I still disagree with it. Perhaps I am harsh because I know the space and also what it takes to make a genuine contribution as a business while aligning it as a positive and beneficial exercise.

For clarification, it is indeed for Queenslanders, so applicable to their unique road rules.

On visibility... if everyone wears fluro but it isn’t noticed (i.e. blindness as is standard visual noise) then it isn’t effective. Take a look at motorcyclist studies on this!

The reflective jackets can introduce a noticeable visual element the right situations. A danger is assuming that these aides are always effective and that they are a cheap solution for governments to deliver safety.... cheaper than planning or budgeting for bike infrastructure and dealing with interests of strong industry groups and their lobbies.

In practical terms, consider safety and be safe but be aware that it isn’t a jacket alone that solves safety.

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby Cyclophiliac » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:19 am

What annoys me about this is that PPE is the lowest priority item on the hierarchy of hazard controls. Construction sites across the country are forced to apply this hierarchy daily, and there's hell to pay if it's violated. So why is it acceptable to just recommend PPE for cyclists, instead of, say, eliminating the hazard? :evil:

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby fat and old » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:00 am

AUbicycles wrote:
On visibility... if everyone wears fluro but it isn’t noticed (i.e. blindness as is standard visual noise) then it isn’t effective. Take a look at motorcyclist studies on this!



Are you saying that motorcyclist studies are applicable to cyclists? A motorcyclist is static on his M/C, a cyclist is not. Fundamental difference right there. I’ve related my personal interactions with drivers previously with regard to this, and know what stands out for me.

Please supply a study on cyclists wearing hi vis; I’m sure there’s one out there. Probably comissioned by Chris Boardman lol

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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby queequeg » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:40 am

Cyclophiliac wrote:What annoys me about this is that PPE is the lowest priority item on the hierarchy of hazard controls. Construction sites across the country are forced to apply this hierarchy daily, and there's hell to pay if it's violated. So why is it acceptable to just recommend PPE for cyclists, instead of, say, eliminating the hazard? :evil:


It's because the dominant form of life on this planet is the motor vehicle. If you tried to come up with alternative method of transport for the masses, and during testing it was found that it killed over a million people a year worldwide, it would never get approved for sale. Heck, we have nationwide product recalls on domestic applicances when 1 person is killed, but motor vehicles...move along, nothing to see here.
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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby silentC » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:03 am

Yes we really are a stupid species...
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Re: Victim Blaming as a Marketing Strategy

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:13 pm

fat and old... there is more data on motorcycles so these are easier to find, but of course I realise there are differences. For one, motorcyclists ride Harleys.

Otherwise I admit, I would have to get my googley fingers fired up to get you data, of course there would be opposing data.

Two basic things - Hi-Vis may work better than no visibility in some situations but it is never always the best solution. The best solution is appropriate visibility and this could be a combination... running good lights during the day (flashing / irregular pattern) would create more awareness.

The second is that Hi-Vis vest can't become another half-hearted law because the governments aren't taking genuine steps towards cycling safety. Hi-Vis is not a one-stop shop to prevent accidents but this topic keeps arising and it would be a shot in the dark... better for the politicians to concentrate on real changes.

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