Is this why there is so much negativity and cancelled infrastructure

[AUbicycles]

Abolutely.

In the movie The Fifth Element, the character Zorg uses a related argument of creation following destruction... and it simply depends how you view it.

[mikesbytes]

The govt may be doing what the public want. However how did the public get that attitude?

Public attitude reflects what they have been educated to believe and its constantly marketed to them about the evils of cycling

[fat and old]

How? The media! Media plays to what is deemed to be popular (although who decides that is another thread). If they don't, they soon lose business.


This doesn't mean that cycling suffers necessarily through direct attack only. Lots of small (or large) stories can impact on cycling in ways that would not have been intended. The rise of the 24/7 news which lets us know of the latest outrage almost as it happens is a large part of why parents see cycling (or any unsupervised outdoor activity) as a potential for danger. The advertisement industry, always telling us we need; nay.... deserve; more....such as two vehicles...had it's part in the decline of cycling.


Cycling is yesterday. Something for the history books, those who lose their license or for one of those quaint Euro towns we go to look at like animals in a zoo (look carefully and tell me that those places don't play up to the hype in their own need to survive).

This is why I started the "myth of the Netherlands" thread. Until we have a militant arm of cycling with a human back story to justify itself we ain't getting anywhere. Just more of the same...a few loud personalities that squabble over the crumbs that they get.

[Thoglette]

How? The media! Media plays to what is deemed to be in the interests of the owner

Fixed it for you. Witness the latest "et tu Brute?" in Canberra.

[mikesbytes]

How? The media! Media plays to what is deemed to be in the interests of the owner

Fixed it for you. Witness the latest "et tu Brute?" in Canberra.

Correct the media is portraying the views that maximise the profits of the media owners

[opik_bidin]

motorists get 600 million easily


https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/on- ... fresh=true

Traffic signals are set to be installed at motorway on-ramps across Sydney over the coming years to stagger the flow of vehicles onto major thoroughfares and to reduce bottlenecks.

As part of a $600 million project, a trial of the first quick-change traffic lights will begin next week at the Reservoir Road on-ramp to the M4 motorway at Blacktown.

w\

[Scott_C]

Traffic signals are set to be installed at motorway on-ramps across Sydney over the coming years to stagger the flow of vehicles onto major thoroughfares and to reduce bottlenecks.

They are doing the same sort of work in WA at the moment under the banner of "Smart Freeways" and in February they closed the busiest shared path in the state in order to install the gantry signs with a planned re-opening of mid-August (i.e. next week). Due to their incompetence it now looks like it will be closed for at least the rest of the year and probably longer.

So not only do they find plenty of money for roads, they are quite happy to screw over cyclists while they build them.

[opik_bidin]

Traffic signals are set to be installed at motorway on-ramps across Sydney over the coming years to stagger the flow of vehicles onto major thoroughfares and to reduce bottlenecks.

They are doing the same sort of work in WA at the moment under the banner of "Smart Freeways" and in February they closed the busiest shared path in the state in order to install the gantry signs with a planned re-opening of mid-August (i.e. next week). Due to their incompetence it now looks like it will be closed for at least the rest of the year and probably longer.

So not only do they find plenty of money for roads, they are quite happy to screw over cyclists while they build them.

I think its always amazing that this mess of pouring huge amount of money and work for cars which cause great disruption to general life is always similar and even the same all around the world, no matter which country, be it USA, Australia or Indonesia.

and then the result is similar: more cars, more congestion, more pollution, more time wasted on roads, more distance to everywhere, more debt.

But then when a project for public and active transport is gonna be done, they ask about the cost and impact...

[fat and old]

They been doing that to Vic freeways a few years now. Excellent outcomes.

Edit: I'm not excusing the pathetically low spend on cycling infra here. Just pointing out that those fwy lights are actually a good thing. One of the best fwy improvements in a long long time.

[mikesbytes]

motorists get 600 million easily


https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/on- ... fresh=true

Traffic signals are set to be installed at motorway on-ramps across Sydney over the coming years to stagger the flow of vehicles onto major thoroughfares and to reduce bottlenecks.

As part of a $600 million project, a trial of the first quick-change traffic lights will begin next week at the Reservoir Road on-ramp to the M4 motorway at Blacktown.

w\

I've experienced this with motorways in Auckland. Gets the traffic to travel at the optimum speed to maximise the number of motor vehicles that can use the motorway.

So taxpayers money is going to be used to increase the profit of the owners of the motorways?

[opik_bidin]

motorists get 600 million easily


https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/on- ... fresh=true

Traffic signals are set to be installed at motorway on-ramps across Sydney over the coming years to stagger the flow of vehicles onto major thoroughfares and to reduce bottlenecks.

As part of a $600 million project, a trial of the first quick-change traffic lights will begin next week at the Reservoir Road on-ramp to the M4 motorway at Blacktown.

w\

I've experienced this with motorways in Auckland. Gets the traffic to travel at the optimum speed to maximise the number of motor vehicles that can use the motorway.

So taxpayers money is going to be used to increase the profit of the owners of the motorways?

short answer : yes

medium answer: yes, like they do in every country with mototrways, especially in tolled ones

long answer : research and real the stories of transurban activities in USA : https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/09/13/ ... oll-lanes/

[Thoglette]

So taxpayers money is going to be used to increase the profit of the owners of the motorways?

short answer : yes

For one of the more blatant examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_Cit ... Criticisms

General, recent commentary on the quantity and effectiveness of the Sydney toll roads here (ABC quoting Dr Zeibots).

Note that the tram system in Sydney used to have 1,800 cars and moved nearly 400m passengers per year over 250km of tracks before it was erased from history.

Based on the current cost of the 12.5km new tramline (c. $2.7B), that act of vandalism cost Sydney somewhere north of $54B in today's money. The Brisbane tram depot suffered a massive fire shortly after, around which rumours continue to circulate.

[find_bruce]

Simplistic example of dubious accuracy - the trams & infrastructure needed maintenance & would have been replaced more than once over that 60 years.

Most people think at least some some of the tram infrastructure was repurposed to good effect.

[Thoglette]

Simplistic example of dubious accuracy - the trams & infrastructure needed maintenance & would have been replaced more than once over that 60 years.

Totally agree that the tram network (like all rail infrastructure) was under maintained due to the wars and post war austerity. And would have needed ongoing maintenance over the years. So which bits are inaccurate?

Two further questions for you:
1. have you got a better basis of estimate for the cost of reinstating the tram routes?
2. do you have the amount spent on major freeways in NSW since then (capex and opex) at hand?

[opik_bidin]

Cyclists: I told ya, I told ya, I told ya

Motorists and Gov : Shut up cyclists

Cyclists : You've been warned

why can't only motorists pay for financial disaster like these?

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 52b6a.html

Victoria’s most-expensive road project, the North East Link, risks becoming a “financial disaster” due to over-estimated travel time savings and traffic numbers, a leading urban economist has warned.

SGS Economics and Planning economist Terry Rawnsley, who was a consultant for successive governments on the Metro Tunnel and East West Link, has warned that the $15.8 billion North East Link is at risk of failing to deliver substantial travel time savings, which would severely limit its benefit to the community.

[fat and old]

Cyclists: I told ya, I told ya, I told ya

Motorists and Gov : Shut up cyclists

Cyclists : You've been warned

why can't only motorists pay for financial disaster like these?

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 52b6a.html

Victoria’s most-expensive road project, the North East Link, risks becoming a “financial disaster” due to over-estimated travel time savings and traffic numbers, a leading urban economist has warned.

SGS Economics and Planning economist Terry Rawnsley, who was a consultant for successive governments on the Metro Tunnel and East West Link, has warned that the $15.8 billion North East Link is at risk of failing to deliver substantial travel time savings, which would severely limit its benefit to the community.

Dude....you have to look at the positives. From your article

“The project will include better, more-connected open spaces and 25 kilometres of new and upgraded walking and cycling paths," a spokeswoman said.

25k's of cycle path!!!!!!! That's $632 million per kilometre..... We getting the most expensive cycle paths in the whole world!!!!

[opik_bidin]

Cyclists: I told ya, I told ya, I told ya

Motorists and Gov : Shut up cyclists

Cyclists : You've been warned

why can't only motorists pay for financial disaster like these?

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 52b6a.html

Victoria’s most-expensive road project, the North East Link, risks becoming a “financial disaster” due to over-estimated travel time savings and traffic numbers, a leading urban economist has warned.

SGS Economics and Planning economist Terry Rawnsley, who was a consultant for successive governments on the Metro Tunnel and East West Link, has warned that the $15.8 billion North East Link is at risk of failing to deliver substantial travel time savings, which would severely limit its benefit to the community.

Dude....you have to look at the positives. From your article

“The project will include better, more-connected open spaces and 25 kilometres of new and upgraded walking and cycling paths," a spokeswoman said.

25k's of cycle path!!!!!!! That's $632 million per kilometre..... We getting the most expensive cycle paths in the whole world!!!!

This is why you're blocked, counting 15.8 billion all for 25 km of cycleway. It's the total cost of the project mate. You can discuss in your PM with other motorist - cyclists about how to twart information and miscalculate. Hope you had one box omo ultimate to wash your mouth and brain after this

[mikesbytes]

Ah but the only thing useful to come out of the 15.8 billion was that 25km of cycleway, the other initiatives will simply result in motor traffic inducement