Bollards!

HausFinch
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:16 pm

Bollards!

Postby HausFinch » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:19 am

A few days ago while cycling to ANU I stopped to help a cyclist who had struck a bollard on the bike path. There were three bollards, a left side, right side, and a centre one. Presumably he struck the centre. The man had been charging ahead, probably head down, and preparing to pass another cyclist so his view to the centre bollard was obstructed. I encountered the leading cyclist on the phone to the ambo service, and the victim on the ground not moving with his right hand held up showing a compound fracture index finger, the tip clearly bent oddly and bleeding. He seemed to think his shoulder or collar bone was broken as well.
I've often wondered how many accidents are caused by these bollards. These are tall steel posts painted yellow with red reflective tape around them. Also, what is the best design for such barriers? Above hand strike height or below? Why not just fine drivers for using the path for access? Are bollards more hazard than they're worth?

opik_bidin
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Bollards!

Postby opik_bidin » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:57 am

I find many bollards are too many and too narrow. I think one should be enough as to divide the path. Bicycles aren't only the ones that use the path, how about wheelchairs and trikes?

human909
Posts: 9137
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Bollards!

Postby human909 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:08 am

Bollards in the middle of a path are a clear and present hazard. No matter what colour you paint them. What would be said if you put a street pole in the middle of two traffic lanes without a curb? (I've seen this done in third world countries.)

AdelaidePeter
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am

Re: Bollards!

Postby AdelaidePeter » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:18 am

There are some Australian Standards for bollards, there is a page discussing them here, and listing the main features: https://www.bicycleinstitutesa.com/2017 ... ard-prize/ . It doesn't actually link to the standards document but there's enough information that you should be able to find it.

But one thing I could never find out was how obligatory these standards are; or if they are "more like guidelines".

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 10384
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: If you need to know, ask me
Contact:

Re: Bollards!

Postby RonK » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:34 am

HausFinch wrote:Why not just fine drivers for using the path for access? Are bollards more hazard than they're worth?

No. I'd prefer to negotiate the odd bollard than encounter errant motorists, nutcases or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

JPB
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:13 pm
Location: Western Sydney

Re: Bollards!

Postby JPB » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:45 am

Aren't they normally at entry and exit points so you probably should not be going through the area at speed (especially exiting)?
I would have an issue if they were just in the middle of normal path.
My gripe is when a bollard has been taken out to allow access by maintenance workers or similar and there is a 5cm stub sticking out of the path.

HausFinch
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Bollards!

Postby HausFinch » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:37 pm

In most cases around the Lake Burley Griffin path the entrances and exit points are bottlenecked in some way. In this instance it wasn't an entry or exit point per se but a place where access to a part of the Lake front is barriered all along the grass with low timber horizontal poles, and then at the path with steel posts. So not a typical instance of bollards. I agree with the observation that you'd never see a steel post on the middle of road dividing two lanes. Why is it presumed ok strategy for bike path? The ambo driver said it's no use reporting it they'll just reply you should watch where you're going, that's why they make them big and yellow! I don't think that's defensible.

Scintilla
Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm

Re: Bollards!

Postby Scintilla » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:27 pm

RonK wrote:
HausFinch wrote:Why not just fine drivers for using the path for access? Are bollards more hazard than they're worth?

No. I'd prefer to negotiate the odd bollard than encounter errant motorists, nutcases or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.

Most of the rail-trails in Victoria now have very few bollards, and often very few gateway/chicanes to deter vehicle entry. There is no significant problem with illicit motor vehicle access on the trails.

human909
Posts: 9137
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Bollards!

Postby human909 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:35 pm

RonK wrote:or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously. Come back to reality.

Tamiya
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 12:15 am

Re: Bollards!

Postby Tamiya » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:57 pm

human909 wrote:
RonK wrote:or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously. Come back to reality.


MAMILs riding too fast for their surroundings...?

Otoh My elders recall firsthand witnessing of the Japanese riding pushbikes thru vanquished Malaya on their way south to conquer Singapore... although I don't think they had bike paths, more like "took the lane" :twisted:

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 10384
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: If you need to know, ask me
Contact:

Re: Bollards!

Postby RonK » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:32 pm

human909 wrote:
RonK wrote:or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously. Come back to reality.

Haha. This is the reality. Think it couldn’t happen here?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/28/nyre ... nalty.html

And no nutcases either I suppose?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January ... prov=sfti1
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

human909
Posts: 9137
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Bollards!

Postby human909 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:47 am

RonK wrote:Haha. This is the reality. Think it couldn’t happen here?

Risk and likelihood mate. Should every footpath be similarly protected from terrorists?

RonK wrote:And no nutcases either I suppose?

Lets keep things in perspective. I would quote all the thousands of road death articles we'd be here all month.

Bike path bollards haven't been about terrorism mate.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 10026
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Bollards!

Postby g-boaf » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:04 am

Tamiya wrote:
human909 wrote:
RonK wrote:or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously. Come back to reality.


MAMILs riding too fast for their surroundings...?

Otoh My elders recall firsthand witnessing of the Japanese riding pushbikes thru vanquished Malaya on their way south to conquer Singapore... although I don't think they had bike paths, more like "took the lane" :twisted:


Trail bikes are the problem. They are a big issue around here and going flying past pedestrians and others at 50kmh or more is hardly safe.

User avatar
StevOz
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:37 pm
Location: Dunsborough, WA.

Re: Bollards!

Postby StevOz » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:53 am

Just going on night I hit one of these in the middle of a pathway and broke my back, a spur on one of my lower vetebre. was out of action for a month.

That bollard has been removed, just as well my bone mended itself.

human909
Posts: 9137
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Bollards!

Postby human909 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:26 pm

g-boaf wrote:Trail bikes are the problem. They are a big issue around here and going flying past pedestrians and others at 50kmh or more is hardly safe.

Agreed that is a problem. But I don't see that bollards are a solution.


They are a safety hazard when placed in the middle of a cycle path.

StevOz wrote:Just going on night I hit one of these in the middle of a pathway and broke my back, a spur on one of my lower vetebre. was out of action for a month.

That bollard has been removed, just as well my bone mended itself.

User avatar
Mububban
Posts: 1598
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: Bollards!

Postby Mububban » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:12 pm

I've only ever seen bollards at entry and exit points, street crossing etc where they want you to slow down, not in the middle of a long stretch of path? That's some terrible design if they've put them on the "highway" rather than the "intersections"
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

human909
Posts: 9137
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Bollards!

Postby human909 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:23 pm

Mububban wrote:I've only ever seen bollards at entry and exit points, street crossing etc where they want you to slow down, not in the middle of a long stretch of path? That's some terrible design if they've put them on the "highway" rather than the "intersections"


I've seen then in all sorts of places, though thankfully it seems most around me councils have recognised the danger it presents. Even at intersections they seem dangerous, especially if it is an intersection which might have bicycle lights.

Other approaches should be considered, they are a hazard to have in the middle of a path. At the very least there should be good sightlines and appropriate surface marking.

More discussion here:
http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/20 ... ds-on.html


In Amsterdam, bollards or Amsterdammertjes have been ubiquitous for a century and even longer. But these are now being phased out and removed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdammertje

NASHIE
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Bollards!

Postby NASHIE » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm

Trail bike rider got killed a few years ago locally, hitting a bollard in the middle of a PSP where it changed to a timber bridge over a creek. Bollard to prevent anything heavier than bike or ped crossing bridge.

User avatar
Cycleops70
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56 am
Location: Perth
Contact:

Re: Bollards!

Postby Cycleops70 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:40 pm

I contacted Stirling council (WA) about a bollard placed in the middle of the PSP north of Perth (Civic place).

There is nothing to either side of it, so it's not preventing motor vehicle access, but it is on a change of direction, so I felt it posed an unnecessary risk to lent over bikes, for no apparent benefit.

The response I got was; "we had some complaints about bikes entering the road too fast, so we put the bollard in place to fix that" (it doesn't).

It is a reflection of our car centric bias, that when motorists are not compliant (for example, driving down the grass on a median strip to get to turning lanes) that we spend thousands of dollars to extend lanes to accommodate this.

But when cyclists are not compliant, we put barriers in place to stop them.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-31.889 ... D100?hl=en

uart
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: Bollards!

Postby uart » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:08 pm

Cycleops70 wrote:I contacted Stirling council (WA) about a bollard placed in the middle of the PSP north of Perth (Civic place).

There is nothing to either side of it, so it's not preventing motor vehicle access, but it is on a change of direction, so I felt it posed an unnecessary risk to lent over bikes, for no apparent benefit.

The response I got was; "we had some complaints about bikes entering the road too fast, so we put the bollard in place to fix that" (it doesn't).

It is a reflection of our car centric bias, that when motorists are not compliant (for example, driving down the grass on a median strip to get to turning lanes) that we spend thousands of dollars to extend lanes to accommodate this.

But when cyclists are not compliant, we put barriers in place to stop them.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-31.889 ... D100?hl=en


Imagine the uproar if someone even suggested (let alone widely implement) "silent cops" that could kill or maim drivers. :shock:

Scott_C
Posts: 743
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:49 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Bollards!

Postby Scott_C » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:32 pm

uart wrote:Imagine the uproar if someone even suggested (let alone widely implement) "silent cops" that could kill or maim drivers. :shock:


We got 2 days of nightly news stories just over a year ago when a developer built a road before an existing power pole was to be relocated such that the pole was located 50cm into the roadway for 3 weeks.
https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/landsdal ... b88627661z

Conversely, the power poles in the West Swan Road shared path, that killed a rider in 2014, are barely mentioned and are "protected" with a bit of a paint that directs you to swerve around them into the on-coming side of the path.

User avatar
find_bruce
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8021
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Bollards!

Postby find_bruce » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:38 pm

Even Austroads agrees bollards are bad
Cycling Aspects of Austroads Guides (2017 Edition) wrote:7.8 Path Terminal Treatments

These devices can be hazardous to cyclists and they generally should not be installed unless:
  • unauthorised motor vehicle access may result in damage to path structures
  • there is clear evidence of unauthorised and undesirable motor vehicle access
  • the device is effective at excluding such vehicles and not readily circumvented.

Shame the guidelines are routinely ignored, at least when it comes to bicycles.

Even worse are those hoop barriers that are difficult to safely navigate past & effectively prevent particular types of bicycles - long (eg tandem, cargo, recumbents) or wide (trikes, trailers, cargo) eg
Image

User avatar
Cycleops70
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56 am
Location: Perth
Contact:

Re: Bollards!

Postby Cycleops70 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:34 pm

Scott_C wrote:Conversely, the power poles in the West Swan Road shared path, that killed a rider in 2014


Oh, I didn't realise someone had died there.
At least they painted them yellow! That'll fix it :roll:

Whiteman park have recently installed banana bars everywhere.

I'd read in qld they they were removing these because they were dangerous.

Nice to see we're with the times.

Scott_C
Posts: 743
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:49 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Bollards!

Postby Scott_C » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:43 pm

Cycleops70 wrote:
Scott_C wrote:Conversely, the power poles in the West Swan Road shared path, that killed a rider in 2014


Oh, I didn't realise someone had died there.

Probably the best article on it, with photo showing how ridiculous it is:
https://www.communitynews.com.au/the-ad ... rous-path/

The death wasn't solely due to the infrastructure (the rider was apparently on a motorised bike with no headlights on a wet night) but there is no way that the infrastructure provided comes anywhere near to being fit for purpose as a bi-directional shared path.

User avatar
Cycleops70
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56 am
Location: Perth
Contact:

Re: Bollards!

Postby Cycleops70 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Scott_C wrote:Probably the best article on it, with photo showing how ridiculous it is:
https://www.communitynews.com.au/the-ad ... rous-path/

Thanks.

"City chief executive Mike Foley said the path was safe at night, as long as users rode to the conditions."

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't tolerate poles in the middle of the road.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users