Emonda - new light bike

Emonda - new light bike

Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:37 pm

Seems that Trek have decided they are losing sales by not having the lightest bike out there. The top line bike is using SRAM Red 22 for 4.6kgs (with special wheels). But what I found interesting is that the OCLV 700 carbon Ultegra bike was under the 6.8kg UCI limit as well. 5300 bucks.

I'm a bit on the fence about it. I have started using Campagnolo and they don't have a direct mount option except for the Bontrager Speed Limit brakes which aren't that brilliant - hoping that Colnago's recent direct mount rim brake is better, given the Campag OEM connection - lighter is better, of course, but do we really need such light bikes? I'd prefer to see a bike that sits on the UCI 6.8 with Aoelus 5s or even 7s with a Chorus groupset and a SRM power meter. AKA my bike but a bit lighter ;)

Had a few 5.x Madones breaking at the seat tube in my local area, one at the chainstay... these things do break, wondering if it's better just to back off the engineering a bit more. 690 grams for a frame is great, but if it breaks every 6 months, that's no good to me.
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by BNA » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:12 pm

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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby rkelsen » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:12 pm

Re: Your last sentence: This stuff is made to win races, not last forever.

TIL about direct mount rim brakes. Interesting bit of innovation, although it makes me wonder why they didn't just develop the V brake design a little more? That way you could just use cantilever studs. Anyhow, I wonder how many teams will prefer this design to discs? Certainly looks to be more aero and lighter while offering better braking (than standard rim calipers) as well.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:23 pm

I think that's the concern - yes, it's made to win races, but how many races? It's not unreasonable to assume you'll get a couple seasons from a race bike, but I start to become concerned that we aren't getting a lifer from these bikes. Maybe I'm asking too much ;) This certainly doesn't change my mind about a Race Domane though. I assume they are getting some serious compliance (as Schleck apparently was riding the Domane exclusively because of an injury).
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Howzat » Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:28 pm

Does this line-up replace the Madone?
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Redbull » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:06 pm

No.
Think of it as the Cervelo equivalent of the R series, Madone equals S series. Domane is the more comfortable version.


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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Nobody » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:10 pm

Xplora wrote:...lighter is better, of course, but do we really need such light bikes?
This statement shows you are getting old. Soon you'll be talking about the good ol' days when we only had 10 speed rear and carbon bikes were mainly above 6.8Kg. :P

Xplora wrote:Had a few 5.x Madones breaking at the seat tube in my local area, one at the chainstay... these things do break, wondering if it's better just to back off the engineering a bit more. 690 grams for a frame is great, but if it breaks every 6 months, that's no good to me.
One again, you must be getting old to think of such things. Breakage is what the "lifetime warranty" is for. Xplora, you're just not "with it" anymore. It won't be too much longer before you start to think that steel and Ti are OK materials to make bikes from. :o :P
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:37 pm

Just because I'm very much accepting of the carbon standard doesn't mean I don't see the value in steel, Nobody ;) For durability and the like, I would prefer steel, but unfortunately they don't make 4.6kg steel bikes than have wheels and groupsets and I'm more attached to going fast than durability. 8)

Lifetime warranty is the reason I bought a Trek instead of a Cell, XDS or Azzurri Di2. But I know you're razzing :lol:

I don't much see the value in the large Madone series with the Emonda on deck; keeping a single 4, 6 and 7 series Madone might be worthwhile as an aero bike. I think things get hard when they are running H1 and H2 geometry on all three series. The local Trek store only has one or two of each series in the showroom, maybe 30 bikes including TTs and hybrids. No Race Domane and perhaps one H1. Doesn't bode well, they just have too many models... unless they are stretching out the painting factory for Project One?
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby rearviewmirror » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:03 am

Trek has a lifetime warranty, I've had two frames replaced. Each time with the latest model so I don't mind. Emonda top spec is SRAM Red with a compact crank. Marketing had made a mess of the cycling industry.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby rkelsen » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:27 am

Xplora wrote:690 grams for a frame is great, but if it breaks every 6 months, that's no good to me.

...
Xplora wrote:I'm more attached to going fast than durability. 8)

So which is it?
Xplora wrote:I think that's the concern - yes, it's made to win races, but how many races? It's not unreasonable to assume you'll get a couple seasons from a race bike, but I start to become concerned that we aren't getting a lifer from these bikes.

Do you honestly believe that the Pros use the same bike for any more than a couple of races?
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:19 pm

^^ You know that life isn't absolute - on a scale of 1 to 5 I sit at 2. Positive about carbon, but don't trust it fully under some circumstances. The video Trek released proved this bike has not been tested for 12 months of racing yet. They were still tweaking 2 months ago. They've trimmed the bike a LOT from the Madones. I reserve judgment.

Do you honestly believe they don't keep the bike? It's interesting to note that Michael Jordan was the first guy in the NBA to get new shoes every game AFAIK. The game was professional and popular for a long time before he got that deal with Nike. I think some others would be able to confirm if the bikes are kept for more than a year, but it seems they do so many kms that the bike needs replacement (shagged drivetrain and parts, possible stressed and scratched frame) each year. Would love to hear from those who know.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby rkelsen » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:57 pm

Xplora wrote:Do you honestly believe they don't keep the bike?

Well, since they're always riding a current model... :? :!: :wink:

http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/253783-there-secondary-market-used-pro-bikes-frames.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/493375-what-happens-pro-team-bikes-after-end-season.html
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/358411/pro-team-bikes-where-do-they-go

One of the comments which stuck out:

"I was reading an article about bike racing in Europe. The author mentioned seeing team bikes being sold right off the roof of the support car at the end of the season. A team finished its last race of the year, and the bikes were sold that afternoon. The article implied that they went cheap...anyone standing nearby could make an offer, and in a few minutes, the bikes were gone."
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:11 pm

Selling at the end of the season is different to selling them after each race. ;)

But I have no question that's what happens at the end of the year. I'd even accept the possibility that some of these things are getting turned over more regularly - Most builders debut their new bike during the TdF. I know Trek has. Interestingly, I noted that Arradondo (Colombian rider for Trek who took out the KOM jersey for the Giro this year) was wearing lilac blue logo Oakley's. This colour clashes like no one's business with the current factory bikes, but matches the 2013 Trek Factory colour scheme. I have no idea if this is representative of the whole peleton or if it even matters, but it's certainly worth keeping in the back of the mind when we make assumptions about the land of milk and honey. Arradondo was getting substantial air time and didn't have matching colours across the body. What about the domestiques hiding in the bunch?

It's certainly normal for the GC leader of a Grand Tour to have a special bike - Quintana had a fully pink bike and kit, Wiggins, Froome and Cancellara had yellow bikes and kit. But these are the team leaders, and I am guessing they'd keep the bike as a momento - or maybe the team takes it back, strips it down and repaints, I don't know.

What I do have issue with is the assumption they are dumping these bikes at the end of every race. And that's where the concerns about durability crop up for me. The Emonda is a cut below every other bike Trek has made. I trust they know what they are doing, but even their bog standard DA/Aeolus 3 equipped bike is 500 grams heavier than the Sram/Tune 10 pound special. Would you like to be a test bunny for the super light 10 pounder? You aren't getting paid to ride it, you are paying them :lol:
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby rkelsen » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:34 pm

Xplora wrote:What I do have issue with is the assumption they are dumping these bikes at the end of every race.

Do you think they use the same bike/s for the Giro and the TdF?

The Paris-Roubaix bikes would only be used for that one race, surely.
Xplora wrote:And that's where the concerns about durability crop up for me.

If you're looking for durability why are you sniffing around the cutting edge? Seems a bit contradictory...
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:50 pm

I think we'll need to wait for some facts at this point - we're assuming quite a bit at this point.

You get plenty of durability from a 5 series Madone which can come under the UCI limit with carbon cockpit and carbon tubs without getting SRAM Red or Super Record. Doesn't cope with bangs like a steel frame will, but that's OK. Don't bang it. :lol:
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby flashpixx » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:34 pm

For those in Perth Riders Choice has 5 or six Emonda on display of various specifications. Colour variations are ... bright :D
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Xplora » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:13 am

rkelsen wrote:
Xplora wrote:What I do have issue with is the assumption they are dumping these bikes at the end of every race.

Do you think they use the same bike/s for the Giro and the TdF?


Image

Movistar's TdF 2014 campaign... Quintana isn't riding the Tour, but his Giro bike is amongst the spares. This might be an answer to the previous discussion :idea:
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby trekbikes3242 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:55 pm

In reply to your durability concerns xplora,
Trek undertake vigorous strength testing on all of their bikes. They also have one of the best warranty policies in the business. My experience with Trek is excellent.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Xplora » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:01 am

^^^ I don't question this - I have bought 5 Trek's because of it and only two have had any warranty issues (minor ones at that - v-brake caliper broke, and the crank wasn't tight enough after 100kms - not entirely unusual though according to Shimano's docs).

My concern is that the longevity of the bikes in their current form haven't been tested. They were running around with Schleck only in May, confirming the final frame design. I want to see Emonda's for another couple years before they have the runs on the board. This isn't a light Madone; it's a completely new frame.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby trekbikes3242 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:15 pm

Xplora wrote:^^^ I don't question this - I have bought 5 Trek's because of it and only two have had any warranty issues (minor ones at that - v-brake caliper broke, and the crank wasn't tight enough after 100kms - not entirely unusual though according to Shimano's docs).

My concern is that the longevity of the bikes in their current form haven't been tested. They were running around with Schleck only in May, confirming the final frame design. I want to see Emonda's for another couple years before they have the runs on the board. This isn't a light Madone; it's a completely new frame.


If you watch the video on the Trek website, you will see that this bike was in development early last year
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Xplora » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:12 pm

Yep, and they were testing final tweaks to the design in May with Schleck and another rider. They did not settle on a design more than 3-4 months ago.

We could argue that Trek has been making carbon bikes for 20 years, but this project is very very young and is well beyond what they've done in the past; I've seen the videos. I don't buy bikes to replace or stay modern. I expect them to last for a long time despite abuse. There is no way to prove "my" expectations will last. I'm no retrogrouch, but it certainly is reasonable to discuss whether Trek went too far to meet the design brief of a 10 pound bike... longevity is unproven, and unprovable, at this stage. I'm happy to wait, but we didn't see much of TFR at the Tour, who knows if the bike is going well or not? I'd buy a Tarmac right now based on professional race results :lol:
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby Howzat » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:05 am

Looks like the Emonda has replaced the Madone; only 7-series Madones are still in the catalogue, plus one cheap aluminium model.
Last edited by Howzat on Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike

Postby CKinnard » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:57 am

Xplora wrote:I think some others would be able to confirm if the bikes are kept for more than a year, but it seems they do so many kms that the bike needs replacement (shagged drivetrain and parts, possible stressed and scratched frame) each year. Would love to hear from those who know.


I can tell you for a fact used pro bikes, frames, and wheels get on-sold.
I have connections with one of the better funded teams, and 2013 race bikes and 2013-14 training bikes are being moved on now.
The history and set up of each bike is included in the description. The setups make very interesting reading.
Only bikes thoroughly tested by their mechanics are sold.

You have to keep in mind sponsor manufacturers release new models every year, and these have to be show cased by the teams.
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