Emonda - new light bike
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Emonda - new light bike
Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:37 pm
I'm a bit on the fence about it. I have started using Campagnolo and they don't have a direct mount option except for the Bontrager Speed Limit brakes which aren't that brilliant - hoping that Colnago's recent direct mount rim brake is better, given the Campag OEM connection - lighter is better, of course, but do we really need such light bikes? I'd prefer to see a bike that sits on the UCI 6.8 with Aoelus 5s or even 7s with a Chorus groupset and a SRM power meter. AKA my bike but a bit lighter
Had a few 5.x Madones breaking at the seat tube in my local area, one at the chainstay... these things do break, wondering if it's better just to back off the engineering a bit more. 690 grams for a frame is great, but if it breaks every 6 months, that's no good to me.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby rkelsen » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:12 pm
TIL about direct mount rim brakes. Interesting bit of innovation, although it makes me wonder why they didn't just develop the V brake design a little more? That way you could just use cantilever studs. Anyhow, I wonder how many teams will prefer this design to discs? Certainly looks to be more aero and lighter while offering better braking (than standard rim calipers) as well.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:23 pm
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Howzat » Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:28 pm
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Redbull » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:06 pm
Think of it as the Cervelo equivalent of the R series, Madone equals S series. Domane is the more comfortable version.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Nobody » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:10 pm
This statement shows you are getting old. Soon you'll be talking about the good ol' days when we only had 10 speed rear and carbon bikes were mainly above 6.8Kg.Xplora wrote:...lighter is better, of course, but do we really need such light bikes?
One again, you must be getting old to think of such things. Breakage is what the "lifetime warranty" is for. Xplora, you're just not "with it" anymore. It won't be too much longer before you start to think that steel and Ti are OK materials to make bikes from.Xplora wrote:Had a few 5.x Madones breaking at the seat tube in my local area, one at the chainstay... these things do break, wondering if it's better just to back off the engineering a bit more. 690 grams for a frame is great, but if it breaks every 6 months, that's no good to me.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:37 pm
Lifetime warranty is the reason I bought a Trek instead of a Cell, XDS or Azzurri Di2. But I know you're razzing
I don't much see the value in the large Madone series with the Emonda on deck; keeping a single 4, 6 and 7 series Madone might be worthwhile as an aero bike. I think things get hard when they are running H1 and H2 geometry on all three series. The local Trek store only has one or two of each series in the showroom, maybe 30 bikes including TTs and hybrids. No Race Domane and perhaps one H1. Doesn't bode well, they just have too many models... unless they are stretching out the painting factory for Project One?
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby rearviewmirror » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:03 am
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby rkelsen » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:27 am
...Xplora wrote:690 grams for a frame is great, but if it breaks every 6 months, that's no good to me.
So which is it?Xplora wrote:I'm more attached to going fast than durability.
Do you honestly believe that the Pros use the same bike for any more than a couple of races?Xplora wrote:I think that's the concern - yes, it's made to win races, but how many races? It's not unreasonable to assume you'll get a couple seasons from a race bike, but I start to become concerned that we aren't getting a lifer from these bikes.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:19 pm
Do you honestly believe they don't keep the bike? It's interesting to note that Michael Jordan was the first guy in the NBA to get new shoes every game AFAIK. The game was professional and popular for a long time before he got that deal with Nike. I think some others would be able to confirm if the bikes are kept for more than a year, but it seems they do so many kms that the bike needs replacement (shagged drivetrain and parts, possible stressed and scratched frame) each year. Would love to hear from those who know.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby rkelsen » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:57 pm
Well, since they're always riding a current model...Xplora wrote:Do you honestly believe they don't keep the bike?
http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/ ... rames.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/ ... eason.html
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/358411/p ... do-they-go
One of the comments which stuck out:
"I was reading an article about bike racing in Europe. The author mentioned seeing team bikes being sold right off the roof of the support car at the end of the season. A team finished its last race of the year, and the bikes were sold that afternoon. The article implied that they went cheap...anyone standing nearby could make an offer, and in a few minutes, the bikes were gone."
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:11 pm
But I have no question that's what happens at the end of the year. I'd even accept the possibility that some of these things are getting turned over more regularly - Most builders debut their new bike during the TdF. I know Trek has. Interestingly, I noted that Arradondo (Colombian rider for Trek who took out the KOM jersey for the Giro this year) was wearing lilac blue logo Oakley's. This colour clashes like no one's business with the current factory bikes, but matches the 2013 Trek Factory colour scheme. I have no idea if this is representative of the whole peleton or if it even matters, but it's certainly worth keeping in the back of the mind when we make assumptions about the land of milk and honey. Arradondo was getting substantial air time and didn't have matching colours across the body. What about the domestiques hiding in the bunch?
It's certainly normal for the GC leader of a Grand Tour to have a special bike - Quintana had a fully pink bike and kit, Wiggins, Froome and Cancellara had yellow bikes and kit. But these are the team leaders, and I am guessing they'd keep the bike as a momento - or maybe the team takes it back, strips it down and repaints, I don't know.
What I do have issue with is the assumption they are dumping these bikes at the end of every race. And that's where the concerns about durability crop up for me. The Emonda is a cut below every other bike Trek has made. I trust they know what they are doing, but even their bog standard DA/Aeolus 3 equipped bike is 500 grams heavier than the Sram/Tune 10 pound special. Would you like to be a test bunny for the super light 10 pounder? You aren't getting paid to ride it, you are paying them
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby rkelsen » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:34 pm
Do you think they use the same bike/s for the Giro and the TdF?Xplora wrote:What I do have issue with is the assumption they are dumping these bikes at the end of every race.
The Paris-Roubaix bikes would only be used for that one race, surely.
If you're looking for durability why are you sniffing around the cutting edge? Seems a bit contradictory...Xplora wrote:And that's where the concerns about durability crop up for me.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:50 pm
You get plenty of durability from a 5 series Madone which can come under the UCI limit with carbon cockpit and carbon tubs without getting SRAM Red or Super Record. Doesn't cope with bangs like a steel frame will, but that's OK. Don't bang it.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby flashpixx » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:34 pm
Riding: Trek Domane SLR 7
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Xplora » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:13 am
rkelsen wrote:Do you think they use the same bike/s for the Giro and the TdF?Xplora wrote:What I do have issue with is the assumption they are dumping these bikes at the end of every race.
Movistar's TdF 2014 campaign... Quintana isn't riding the Tour, but his Giro bike is amongst the spares. This might be an answer to the previous discussion
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby trekbikes3242 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:55 pm
Trek undertake vigorous strength testing on all of their bikes. They also have one of the best warranty policies in the business. My experience with Trek is excellent.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Xplora » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:01 am
My concern is that the longevity of the bikes in their current form haven't been tested. They were running around with Schleck only in May, confirming the final frame design. I want to see Emonda's for another couple years before they have the runs on the board. This isn't a light Madone; it's a completely new frame.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby trekbikes3242 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:15 pm
If you watch the video on the Trek website, you will see that this bike was in development early last yearXplora wrote:^^^ I don't question this - I have bought 5 Trek's because of it and only two have had any warranty issues (minor ones at that - v-brake caliper broke, and the crank wasn't tight enough after 100kms - not entirely unusual though according to Shimano's docs).
My concern is that the longevity of the bikes in their current form haven't been tested. They were running around with Schleck only in May, confirming the final frame design. I want to see Emonda's for another couple years before they have the runs on the board. This isn't a light Madone; it's a completely new frame.
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Xplora » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:12 pm
We could argue that Trek has been making carbon bikes for 20 years, but this project is very very young and is well beyond what they've done in the past; I've seen the videos. I don't buy bikes to replace or stay modern. I expect them to last for a long time despite abuse. There is no way to prove "my" expectations will last. I'm no retrogrouch, but it certainly is reasonable to discuss whether Trek went too far to meet the design brief of a 10 pound bike... longevity is unproven, and unprovable, at this stage. I'm happy to wait, but we didn't see much of TFR at the Tour, who knows if the bike is going well or not? I'd buy a Tarmac right now based on professional race results
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby Howzat » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:05 am
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Re: Emonda - new light bike
Postby CKinnard » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:57 am
I can tell you for a fact used pro bikes, frames, and wheels get on-sold.Xplora wrote:I think some others would be able to confirm if the bikes are kept for more than a year, but it seems they do so many kms that the bike needs replacement (shagged drivetrain and parts, possible stressed and scratched frame) each year. Would love to hear from those who know.
I have connections with one of the better funded teams, and 2013 race bikes and 2013-14 training bikes are being moved on now.
The history and set up of each bike is included in the description. The setups make very interesting reading.
Only bikes thoroughly tested by their mechanics are sold.
You have to keep in mind sponsor manufacturers release new models every year, and these have to be show cased by the teams.
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