S-works roubaix or not?

lbren
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S-works roubaix or not?

Postby lbren » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:38 pm

I should have not looked at bikeexchange.

I notice this s-works roubaix sl4:

http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/road-b ... /102612201

The prices seems pretty good.

Should i buy this and sell my current bike? Current ride is a basso laguna. Unfortunately I can't keep both!!

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rodneycc
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby rodneycc » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:09 pm

Reckon you could get a pretty nice Tarmac for $5k. ;-)
2013 BMC TM SLR01;2013/14 Bianchi Inf CV
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Ross
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby Ross » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:49 pm

Is it the right size for you - XS? If so, they are a great bike and I'm sure you will be happy with it. Tarmac is a great bike too, but different, more race orientated, if that's your thing.

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Xplora
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby Xplora » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:00 pm

Quite a commitment if you can't keep both.

You have three questions to ask yourself.

Can I handle the bike? (Will it hurt you because you can't handle the stiffness?)
Is it appropriate for you now? (is it too racey or too relaxed to make you happy?)
Will it be appropriate for you next year? (is it too racey or too relaxed to make you happy in the long term?)

The Tarmac, Venge and Roubiax are great for these questions. A Venge will seriously mess you up if you are on tough and rough roads, both bumps and geometry. It's hard work riding a bike like that for 200kms if the roads aren't good.
If you're on good roads, and still want to ride fast, rather than comfy, a Tarmac might be a good choice.
But, if you want to race, and criteriums lasting 30 minutes are the only thing you can race, then a Roubiax might suck because you just can't get the power down the same as a Venge, or even a Tarmac.

The Tour was won on a Tarmac. But you aren't Nibali, so this might be a bit much for you... and you've got to be an elite sprinter to consider taking a Venge onto a normal road for longer rides, because it's just not as comfortable as the Roubaix.

Only you can answer those questions. At least its fairly easy to make the call with Spesh, they aren't very confusing with their bikes.

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CKinnard
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby CKinnard » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:14 pm

I don't know why anyone would buy a relaxed geometry frame built for long rides and rough roads, then put full carbon rims on it that are better suited to 1hr criterium racing on smooth bitumen.

As noted often,
- carbon brake surfaces are not ideal for long or steep descents due to overheating issues, and these wheels' braking behavior has not fared well in reviews.
- deep section carbon wheels are very stiff and transmit a lot of road shock into your hands and bum.
- the wheels have an internal rim width of 16.2mm which is approaching the narrowest available, and the least suitable for enduro riding for which 25-28mm tires are more appropriate.
- the wheels have internal nipples, which makes quick true-ing difficult.

If I was buying an enduro bike in the next 6 mths, I'd get something with hydraulic disc brakes. The last time I did a steep hill descent, I had to pull over for 10 minutes to let the rims cool down as the brake pads were turning to mush. To my surprise the rear rim was hotter than the front, and I was unable to touch it for 5 minutes.

Whoever chose the components for this bike is making an appeal to cyclists more concerned about the 'look' of a bike, rather than fit for purpose.

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Duck!
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby Duck! » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:33 pm

CKinnard wrote:I don't know why anyone would buy a relaxed geometry frame built for long rides and rough roads, then put full carbon rims on it that are better suited to 1hr criterium racing on smooth bitumen.

As noted often,

- deep section carbon wheels are very stiff and transmit a lot of road shock into your hands and bum.

Quite the contrary. Although the tensile stiffness of carbon is greater than aluminium, making the wheels stiffer against low-frequency stresses, carbon (or more correctly, composite laminates including but not exclusive to those based on carbon fibre) have far superior high frequency vibration damping properties to aluminium & steel, so considerably less "road buzz" is transferred to the rider when riding on carbon rims.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Ross
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby Ross » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:17 am

CKinnard wrote:I don't know why anyone would buy a relaxed geometry frame built for long rides and rough roads, then put full carbon rims on it that are better suited to 1hr criterium racing on smooth bitumen.



You'd need to ask Specialized that question as that's how the bike comes from the factory.

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biker jk
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby biker jk » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:56 am

Duck! wrote:
CKinnard wrote:I don't know why anyone would buy a relaxed geometry frame built for long rides and rough roads, then put full carbon rims on it that are better suited to 1hr criterium racing on smooth bitumen.

As noted often,

- deep section carbon wheels are very stiff and transmit a lot of road shock into your hands and bum.

Quite the contrary. Although the tensile stiffness of carbon is greater than aluminium, making the wheels stiffer against low-frequency stresses, carbon (or more correctly, composite laminates including but not exclusive to those based on carbon fibre) have far superior high frequency vibration damping properties to aluminium & steel, so considerably less "road buzz" is transferred to the rider when riding on carbon rims.


Given that radial wheel stiffness is non-linear with rim depth the relative dampening properties of carbon over aluminium would need to be enormous to offset the role of rim depth. Mavic's testing showed that a 30.5mm deep rim was 200% radially stiffer than an Open Pro (18.4mm depth). So if we compare the Roval CLX 40mm rim to an Open Pro it would be 300% stiffer for the same rim material. That would indeed require some extra special dampening properties of carbon rims which frankly I don't believe exists.

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Xplora
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby Xplora » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:33 am

Do you have any experience with the difference, biker? The reason I ask is that there are assumptions being made there - Mavic has tested rim depth within the same material, but where is the testing for the carbon for the same rim depth?

lbren
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby lbren » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:55 am

I don't race and the roads and path that i ride in some areas are quite bad. That's why the roubaix will be ideal.

My current basso laguna can absorb the some of the bumps surprisingly well. Would love to keep the laguna and get the roubaix however i don't have the space to keep two.

Interesting to know properties of the carbon rims.

I guess a test ride will solve this.

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biker jk
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby biker jk » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:05 am

Xplora wrote:Do you have any experience with the difference, biker? The reason I ask is that there are assumptions being made there - Mavic has tested rim depth within the same material, but where is the testing for the carbon for the same rim depth?


Given that elastic modulus (resistance to being deformed elastically) of carbon fibre is around 2.7 times that of aluminium, I would be most surprised to find that a 40mm carbon fibre rim wouldn't be a lot more radially stiff than an Open Pro rim.

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Ross
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby Ross » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:18 pm

I have a set of Roval carbon wheels same as the Robaix ones on my Tarmac and previously had Dura Ace C24s and can tell you the carbon wheels ride harsher. Not super uncomfortably harsh, but noticeably harsher. Same tyres, tubes and pressure in both. Interestingly the C24 front wheel is radially laced.

To the original poster, you can always buy some alloy wheels later if you decide you don't like the ride with the carbon wheels. I doubt you will though, the Roubaix I'm sure even with the carbon wheels will be a lot smoother than your current bike.

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Duck!
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Re: S-works roubaix or not?

Postby Duck! » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:17 pm

biker jk wrote:
Duck! wrote:
CKinnard wrote:I don't know why anyone would buy a relaxed geometry frame built for long rides and rough roads, then put full carbon rims on it that are better suited to 1hr criterium racing on smooth bitumen.

As noted often,

- deep section carbon wheels are very stiff and transmit a lot of road shock into your hands and bum.

Quite the contrary. Although the tensile stiffness of carbon is greater than aluminium, making the wheels stiffer against low-frequency stresses, carbon (or more correctly, composite laminates including but not exclusive to those based on carbon fibre) have far superior high frequency vibration damping properties to aluminium & steel, so considerably less "road buzz" is transferred to the rider when riding on carbon rims.


Given that radial wheel stiffness is non-linear with rim depth the relative dampening properties of carbon over aluminium would need to be enormous to offset the role of rim depth. Mavic's testing showed that a 30.5mm deep rim was 200% radially stiffer than an Open Pro (18.4mm depth). So if we compare the Roval CLX 40mm rim to an Open Pro it would be 300% stiffer for the same rim material. That would indeed require some extra special dampening properties of carbon rims which frankly I don't believe exists.

You're referring to low-frequency impacts/vibrations, and in this case deep wheels will always be stiffer than shallow wheels due to the reduced vertical compliane in the rim, regardless of material. The greater elasticity of carbon will take some of the sting off, but a big bump will always be felt as a big bump. A deep carbon rim will transfer more of the impact than a shallow aluminium rim, but it will feel less jarring than a similarly-profiled aluminium rim.

It's the high-frequency, small chattery bumps that carbon excels at ironing out. It's a property of composites, regardless of fibre, that the resin binding the fibres transfers the load between the fibres (which is where the stiffness comes from), and in the process absorbs some of that energy, resulting in a reduction in vibration transfer.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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