Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 6196
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby Duck! » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:43 pm

Following on from the Shimano notes I posted last week, here's the biz relating to what you can & can't mix as far as SRAM goes.

Drivetrain:
Let's start with shifters & rear derailleurs. Despite using terms such as "1:1" and "exact actuation" to describe their leverage ratios, which logic would suggest are the same, they're not, and that cuts down the compatibility from what you'd think. 8 & 9-sp (MTB only) are identified as "1:1", so any combination of those will work. For 10-sp, SRAM tweaked things to "exact" actuation, which does not play with 1:1. On the plus side, road & MTB 10-sp, plus 11-sp road all use this "exact" ratio, so it's easy to cobble up mega-wall-climbing transmissions using a 10-sp. MTB rear derailleur with either 10 or 11-sp. road shifters. It's also possible to do a budget 11-sp upgrade by only replacing right shifter, chain, cassette, and ensuring freehum compatibility. MTB 11-sp. is different again, and limited to its own family.

There are/were a couple of models of Shimano-compatible shifters, named Rocket and Attack, which were either 7 & 8-sp, or 8 & 9-sp. In any case they're uncommon. Aside from these models, there is no compatibility with Shimano shifters & rear derailleurs.

At the front, derailleurs are all cross compatible, including with Shimano.

All chains & cassettes except for MTB 11-sp. are designed to Shimano standards, so are completely compatible, except they all use the standard shallow spline, so will not fit on the short-lived (and uncommon) deep-cut 10-sp. specific freehub that Shimano and a very few other hub manufacturers adopted for a while. Cassettes beyond the range of their full groups are produced - down to 7-sp. for MTB & 8-sp. for road, offering alternate ratios to those produced by Shimano. MTB 11-sp. cassettes use the same sprocket spacing & cassette width, but due to the use of a 10T top gear require a special freehub body. All major wheel manufacturers except Shimano offer this as an option, and is available as a replacement part for conversion.

Cranks, as pointed out in the Shimano thread, are not fussy, but it is perhaps worth pointing out that the GXP spindle is not compatible with other external bearing or press-fit bottom brackets, due to it stepping down from 24 to 22mm at the left end.

Brakes:

Standard compatibility rules apply in this department; road levers will work with any standard calipers, although some later Shimano models may not perform optimally, also cantilever, road mechanical disc or mini-V-brakes can be used. For MTB mechanical brakes, standard V-brake levers will also work with all MTB cable disc brakes.
Hydraulics I'm not sure about road/MTB compatibility. Given the noises they were making on release of the road models about being tuned for more modulation than MTB brakes, I suspect that lever/caliper cylinder ratios may differ and not offer the best possible performance if mixed. Do not under any circumstance mix SRAM components designed for use with DOT brake fluid with Shimano, Tektro/TRP or any others designed for mineral oil.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

2wheels_mond
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 6:17 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby 2wheels_mond » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:59 pm

Worth noting as well for drivetrain that a Campagnolo 10 speed shifter will work with a SRAM 10 or 11 speed rear derailleur and a 10 speed Shimano/SRAM cassette. Not sure if that applies to 11 speed too.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 4750
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby queequeg » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:59 pm

One question. SRAM 10-Speed cassettes do not come with a spacer like Shimano ones. Do you need a spacer or not?
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 6196
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby Duck! » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:01 pm

No spacer is required*, because the cassettes are built to the 8/9-sp. spline standard, rather than the Shimano 10-sp. specific (no longer produced) design, which actually used a shorter freehub body.

*Unless fitting to an 11-sp. compatible wheel or Mavic hub; in both cases the necessary spacer is supplied with the wheel.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 4750
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby queequeg » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:18 pm

Duck! wrote:No spacer is required*, because the cassettes are built to the 8/9-sp. spline standard, rather than the Shimano 10-sp. specific (no longer produced) design, which actually used a shorter freehub body.

*Unless fitting to an 11-sp. compatible wheel or Mavic hub; in both cases the necessary spacer is supplied with the wheel.


Ah, so Shimano 10sp cassettes are still built to fit the 10sp hubs?
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

Jesmol
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:48 pm

Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby Jesmol » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:49 pm

2wheels_mond wrote:Worth noting as well for drivetrain that a Campagnolo 10 speed shifter will work with a SRAM 10 or 11 speed rear derailleur and a 10 speed Shimano/SRAM cassette. Not sure if that applies to 11 speed too.

You sure on this? My adventures in Shimergo always steered me clear of sram derailleurs as they didn't offer any compatibility. I ended up using campy 11s shifter with ultegra 6700 for Shimergo heaven.

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 6196
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby Duck! » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:10 pm

queequeg wrote:
Duck! wrote:No spacer is required*, because the cassettes are built to the 8/9-sp. spline standard, rather than the Shimano 10-sp. specific (no longer produced) design, which actually used a shorter freehub body.

*Unless fitting to an 11-sp. compatible wheel or Mavic hub; in both cases the necessary spacer is supplied with the wheel.


Ah, so Shimano 10sp cassettes are still built to fit the 10sp hubs?

Dura-Ace, Ultegra & 105 are, Tiagra is not, so that doesn't need the little spacer either.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 4750
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby queequeg » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:13 pm

Duck! wrote:
queequeg wrote:
Duck! wrote:No spacer is required*, because the cassettes are built to the 8/9-sp. spline standard, rather than the Shimano 10-sp. specific (no longer produced) design, which actually used a shorter freehub body.

*Unless fitting to an 11-sp. compatible wheel or Mavic hub; in both cases the necessary spacer is supplied with the wheel.


Ah, so Shimano 10sp cassettes are still built to fit the 10sp hubs?

Dura-Ace, Ultegra & 105 are, Tiagra is not, so that doesn't need the little spacer either.


Cool, thanks for that! Learn a new thing every day!
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

2wheels_mond
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 6:17 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby 2wheels_mond » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:28 pm

Jesmol wrote:
2wheels_mond wrote:Worth noting as well for drivetrain that a Campagnolo 10 speed shifter will work with a SRAM 10 or 11 speed rear derailleur and a 10 speed Shimano/SRAM cassette. Not sure if that applies to 11 speed too.

You sure on this? My adventures in Shimergo always steered me clear of sram derailleurs as they didn't offer any compatibility. I ended up using campy 11s shifter with ultegra 6700 for Shimergo heaven.


I've not tried it personally, but there's a bit of evidence around of it working:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/03/ ... -not_73404

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 6196
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby Duck! » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:15 pm

An interesting discovery I made while seeing how Shimano's new MTB 11-sp. derailleurs match up (or not) with others is that they use the same leverage as SRAM 7/8/9-sp. derailleurs. So users of SRAM 9-sp. systems who want but previously haven't been able to get the stability of a clutched derailleur can fit a Shimano XTR or XT 11-sp. model. It can be done with Shimano 10-sp derailleurs, but the leverage isn't an exact match, so careful tuning is needed.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 6196
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes, the SRAM version

Postby Duck! » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:13 pm

An additional note to the above, SRAM's MTB 11-sp. gear also has a "new" leverage ratio, which is in fact virtually identical to the old 8/9-sp. systems. Given, as pointed out above Shimano now use the same leverage, SRAM & Shimano MTB 11-sp. drivetrains are now completely cross-compatible.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users