New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby simonr23 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:28 pm

I'm looking at buying a new roadbike and this is my last hurdle in narrowing my choice.

I don't compete, but it will be ridden for weekday commuting and weekend group rides.

Any thoughts? The bikes I'm considering are priced fairly close. One has 9000 and bit better wheels, the other 6870.
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by BNA » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:14 pm

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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby macca33 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:14 pm

DA9000 is shweeeet.......and you won't have any hassles - like the bloke who showed up to race this morning and forgot his Di2 battery.....d'oh...

BTW - not having a crack at the electronic stuff - they are grouse, I'm just more of a mechanical type of bloke. :D

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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby Chef » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:22 pm

HI,

I am very happy with the DA9000 on my Defy - Used to have DA7900, and the new series Dura Ace seems to shift far better (smoother/less noise); I also prefer the hood shape, but I guess that is pretty subjective!
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby CKinnard » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:35 pm

I know a guy who drove 90k towards the start of a 5am start ride, before he realized he forgot his Di2 battery, and another guy whose battery went flat on a 3 day ride. Not a charger in sight. He abandoned. Another guy with Di2 had his front derailleur cage bend out of shape and need replaing, during normal shifting.

The reliability and gains of Di2 are not worth the money in my books. THough I accept for some it is.
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby Ross » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:29 am

CKinnard wrote:I know a guy who drove 90k towards the start of a 5am start ride, before he realized he forgot his Di2 battery, and another guy whose battery went flat on a 3 day ride. Not a charger in sight. He abandoned. Another guy with Di2 had his front derailleur cage bend out of shape and need replaing, during normal shifting.

The reliability and gains of Di2 are not worth the money in my books. THough I accept for some it is.


Those problems are nothing to do with the (un)reliability of Di2.
The guy left his battery at home, hardly the fault of Di2. I know a guy that did that recently as well (not me).
Another guy forgot to charge his battery. My Di2 battery lasts a month between charging, riding 6 - 7 days a week. Not the fault of Di2, it's the fault of the owner for not charging it.
Dearailleur cage bent; obviously the derailleur wasn't adjusted properly. Like that has anything to do with electronics. I've done over 20,00km with my Di2 and never had a problem with front derailleur. I actually had this happen to me with a mechanical group. One of the pop rivets attaching derailleur to frame failed and derailleur swung down during shifting and bent and I had to replace it.
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby Ross » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:33 am

The 9000 and 6870 are both great groupsets. I'm sure you will be happy with either. Buy the bike that feels the most comfortable to ride.
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby brett.hooker » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:16 am

I am very happy with my 6870.
I haven't moved to 9000 yet as I don't feel it is warranted on my personal use road bike. The ultegra stuff is more affordable to replace/service.
Loving my Merida's and working towards adding a Pinarello to the stable... Go go go...
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby macca33 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:00 am

brett.hooker wrote:I am very happy with my 6870.
I haven't moved to 9000 yet as I don't feel it is warranted on my personal use road bike. The ultegra stuff is more affordable to replace/service.



Having test-ridden all the latest Shimano stuff recently -thanks to my local LBS - I'm of similar opinion re Ultegra vs DA. The Ult6800 on both my rigs shifts very nicely and to go to DA9000 would, in my opinion, only be to save weight and/or have more coffee shop cred (which my riding cannot back-up!) - none of which matter to me.

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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby CKinnard » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:18 am

Di2 is marketed on the strength of far more reliable shifting. Some I know who have it think it is bullet proof and very rarely needs adjusting. The fact that a front derailleur on an 18mth old bike ridden by an extremely experienced rider was trashed when Di2 didn't shift properly indcates otherwise to my mind.

Different strokes for different folks on whether they want another battery to remember to charge. A garmin, and front and rear usb chargeable lights, washing my kit after most rides, weekly washing and lubing of the bike, checking tires for crap, takes enough of my time and attention. I've got other demands and responsibilities in life, which renders my life less cycling centric.



Ross wrote:
CKinnard wrote:I know a guy who drove 90k towards the start of a 5am start ride, before he realized he forgot his Di2 battery, and another guy whose battery went flat on a 3 day ride. Not a charger in sight. He abandoned. Another guy with Di2 had his front derailleur cage bend out of shape and need replaing, during normal shifting.

The reliability and gains of Di2 are not worth the money in my books. THough I accept for some it is.


Those problems are nothing to do with the (un)reliability of Di2.
The guy left his battery at home, hardly the fault of Di2. I know a guy that did that recently as well (not me).
Another guy forgot to charge his battery. My Di2 battery lasts a month between charging, riding 6 - 7 days a week. Not the fault of Di2, it's the fault of the owner for not charging it.
Dearailleur cage bent; obviously the derailleur wasn't adjusted properly. Like that has anything to do with electronics. I've done over 20,00km with my Di2 and never had a problem with front derailleur. I actually had this happen to me with a mechanical group. One of the pop rivets attaching derailleur to frame failed and derailleur swung down during shifting and bent and I had to replace it.
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby Ross » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:21 pm

CKinnard wrote:Di2 is marketed on the strength of far more reliable shifting. Some I know who have it think it is bullet proof and very rarely needs adjusting. The fact that a front derailleur on an 18mth old bike ridden by an extremely experienced rider was trashed when Di2 didn't shift properly indcates otherwise to my mind.



Think about it. How does Di2 (or mechanical cable for that matter) affect a derailleur shifting to make it stuff up in the way you've described and wreck a derailleur. It can't, unless the derailleur is out of alignment. This can only happen a few ways, and none of them are the direct fault of Di2. The derailleur could be knocked out of alignment somehow by a rock or stick or perhaps somehow a foot when unclipping. The rivet holding it to the frame fails as happened to me. Or the metal of the derailleur cage fatigues causing it to bend. Unlikely but not impossible.

I've never had to re-align front derailleur on any bike I've owned, Di2 or mechanical. Had to adjust the front mechanical derauilleur (just the screws) due to cable stretching.

CKinnard wrote:Different strokes for different folks on whether they want another battery to remember to charge. A garmin, and front and rear usb chargeable lights, washing my kit after most rides, weekly washing and lubing of the bike, checking tires for crap, takes enough of my time and attention. I've got other demands and responsibilities in life, which renders my life less cycling centric.



Sorry to hear that your life is so full that you couldn't possibly find the time once a month to put your Di2 battey on the charger for 30 mins.

I bought the Di2 as a time and money saver. Instead of replacing gear cables 2 or 3 times a year plus regular ongoing adjustments (I'm not very technically minded so it's off to the bike mechanic for this), I just spend 10 seconds pulling the battery off the bike and leave it on the charger for half an hour while I go off and do other stuff.
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby jasonc » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:00 pm

can't go wrong with either. ride both, choose.
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby simonr23 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:03 pm

Thanks for all the replies. I think on Thursday I'll just wing it and pick one.
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New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby Dr_Mutley » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:23 pm

Instead of listening to the constant noise of the mechanical vs electronic debate, simply ride electronic for 5mins and make your choice. For me, I did, and went di2, and absolutely love it... For me, leaving batteries behind isn't an issue. If it is, then the remedy is an internal battery. With 7 to 9000kms between charges for my internal setup, for most it's a yearly issue....

Fwiw, I found 7900 terrible and would never suggest it to anyone, as it was a major step backward to my 7800. 9000 would want to be a major improvement! The main issue with 7900 for me was its inability to overcome the increase in cable friction with my internal cable routing. This was an issue that SRAM red had no trouble shifting with, with same cables and routing.

So wander into your lbs, ask them to put a 6870 bike on a trainer, and go through all the shifting combos for 5 mins. U then will have your decision [THUMBS UP SIGN]


PS:
Don't let wheels sway u as regardless of what wheels u get as standard u will end up wanting to upgrade to something "better" (ie more p0rno) in the near future...
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby rearviewmirror » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:49 pm

Ross wrote:
CKinnard wrote:Di2 is marketed on the strength of far more reliable shifting. Some I know who have it think it is bullet proof and very rarely needs adjusting. The fact that a front derailleur on an 18mth old bike ridden by an extremely experienced rider was trashed when Di2 didn't shift properly indcates otherwise to my mind.



Think about it. How does Di2 (or mechanical cable for that matter) affect a derailleur shifting to make it stuff up in the way you've described and wreck a derailleur. It can't, unless the derailleur is out of alignment. This can only happen a few ways, and none of them are the direct fault of Di2. The derailleur could be knocked out of alignment somehow by a rock or stick or perhaps somehow a foot when unclipping. The rivet holding it to the frame fails as happened to me. Or the metal of the derailleur cage fatigues causing it to bend. Unlikely but not impossible.

I've never had to re-align front derailleur on any bike I've owned, Di2 or mechanical. Had to adjust the front mechanical derauilleur (just the screws) due to cable stretching.

CKinnard wrote:Different strokes for different folks on whether they want another battery to remember to charge. A garmin, and front and rear usb chargeable lights, washing my kit after most rides, weekly washing and lubing of the bike, checking tires for crap, takes enough of my time and attention. I've got other demands and responsibilities in life, which renders my life less cycling centric.



Sorry to hear that your life is so full that you couldn't possibly find the time once a month to put your Di2 battey on the charger for 30 mins.

I bought the Di2 as a time and money saver. Instead of replacing gear cables 2 or 3 times a year plus regular ongoing adjustments (I'm not very technically minded so it's off to the bike mechanic for this), I just spend 10 seconds pulling the battery off the bike and leave it on the charger for half an hour while I go off and do other stuff.


If your "mechanic" is selling you new shift cables 2 or 3x per year then you're hardly the person who should be offering advice on the interwebs.
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby macca33 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:54 pm

Ross wrote:I bought the Di2 as a time and money saver. Instead of replacing gear cables 2 or 3 times a year plus regular ongoing adjustments (I'm not very technically minded so it's off to the bike mechanic for this), I just spend 10 seconds pulling the battery off the bike and leave it on the charger for half an hour while I go off and do other stuff.



How are you burning 2-3 cables a year on a mechanical group? I did >10K on my Berzerker CAAD10 (in 15 months) with Ult6700 and only replaced the cables when I changed the groupset to Ult6800 last month - it would've gone for another 10K no worries at all.

I don't mind getting the wallet out where warranted, but it sounds like you were changing things for the sake of it and not due to necessity - LBS must love you!!!

As I previously mentioned - so as not to get into the mech vs elec debate - each to their own; but there is a lot of garbage being spoken by people who are trying to push their choice onto others...

cheers

PS:- Dr Mutley - I agree the electronic groups are great, but do not be mistaken, DA9000 is VERY good, with Ult 6800 not that far behind.
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Re: New bike- 6870 or 9000 for group set?

Postby Duck! » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:57 pm

I've seen plenty of munted mechanical derailleurs, so it's unfair to blame electronic technology for the failure of a mechanical part of the component. I've seen dozens of mechanical derailleurs worn through the side plates from chain drag because of riders cross-chaining & not trimming. You can't blame mechanical technology for the rider being a muppet..... Forgetting to charge the battery or put it on prior to a ride is in the same basket - not the fault of the technology.

I've only seen one Di2 derailleur fail in its electronically-controlled component; it was an early 7970 FD which by the sound of it had stripped its actuating gears, and I've had one junction box button malfunction, in that the button wouldn't switch it into adjustment mode.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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