Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes

Kronos
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Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes

Postby Kronos » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:00 am

Yes, I just run into DI2 hell as I'm upgrading my 6700 10 speed to 6770 at present. No more tricks and witchcraft of getting away with using a 6870 rear deraileur anymore. You used to be able to for a while, and then there was a while where you could use them without updating the firmware. However, Shimano have fully firmware bricked out 10 speed users :evil: Never mind that anyway I sourced myself a 6770 front and rear derailleur.

I should note, the rest of the electronic components seem still to be compatible. You just need to get the derailleurs, which is getting increasingly more difficult as 6770 DI2 stuff ages out. It appears from all my knowledge available on the matter that its only the derailleurs that make DI2 10 or 11 speed compatible. Except the original 7970 DI2 which no one wants at this point due to age and incompatibility, all of the shifters, junction and control boxes for mountain bikes and road bikes are completely compatible with each other. Not sure if you've covered this just yet, but its just my latest trials in bringing an 07 Trek 1500 SLR out of the dark ages.

Duck! wrote:
ball bearing wrote:Is a Campagnolo 11 speed chain compatible with Shimano drivetrains? I have heard two different stories.

I havent tried it, but suspect it would be a better match than 10-sp. C10 is distinctly wider than S10, but 11-sp. is pretty similar between the two. Link shaping may not perfectly match the sprocket & chainring ramping, but should work OK.


From what I gather the Shimano, SRAM and Campag 11 speed cogs share the same spacing between them, so should be largely compatible. Again I don't have a Campag bike at the moment to test this out on, but others seem to be doing "fine." Bear in mind one mans fine is another mans turd sandwich when it comes to shifting.

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Duck!
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Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes

Postby Duck! » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:02 am

Kronos wrote:Yes, I just run into DI2 hell as I'm upgrading my 6700 10 speed to 6770 at present. No more tricks and witchcraft of getting away with using a 6870 rear deraileur anymore. You used to be able to for a while, and then there was a while where you could use them without updating the firmware. However, Shimano have fully firmware bricked out 10 speed users :evil: Never mind that anyway I sourced myself a 6770 front and rear derailleur.

It was never possible to bodge a 10-sp. system with a 6870 RD. What you *could* do for a while was relatively cheaply upgrade to 11-sp. by only replacing the rear derailleur. It was never supposed to, but for a short while the 11-sp. RD would talk to the 10-sp. FD. That accidental compatibilty has since been removed.

I should note, the rest of the electronic components seem still to be compatible. You just need to get the derailleurs, which is getting increasingly more difficult as 6770 DI2 stuff ages out. It appears from all my knowledge available on the matter that its only the derailleurs that make DI2 10 or 11 speed compatible. Except the original 7970 DI2 which no one wants at this point due to age and incompatibility, all of the shifters, junction and control boxes for mountain bikes and road bikes are completely compatible with each other. Not sure if you've covered this just yet, but its just my latest trials in bringing an 07 Trek 1500 SLR out of the dark ages.

There may be some minor limitation of function when mixing road & MTB bits, but yes, for the most part everything is compatible.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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ft_critical
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Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes

Postby ft_critical » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:46 pm

Hello Duck,

Getting Campagnolo Cassettes in appropriate ranges 11-25 is getting harder.

I have many sets of Campagnolo spacers lying around. It would be awesome if I can re-space say an Ultegra or SRAM 10sp cassette with Campagnolo spacers. I know that the first three cogs are fixed for Ultegra and 105, so that might not work as a start point. I assume that the cog width is not significantly different.

Any thoughts in this regard? (PS, I have used Miche cassettes and I was not that impressed with the quality of the metal frankly.)

Many thanks for sharing your experience,

FT

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Duck!
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Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes

Postby Duck! » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:15 am

This isn't something I've messed around with to any real extent. The first difficulty is that Campag cassettes, especially 10-sp, are wider than Shimano/SRAM by a fairly decent margin. The second issue is that the spacing is not equal across the cassette. The third issue is that I have a feeling that Campag-pattern freewheel bodies are a smaller diameter than Shimano-pattern, so the necessary varying thickness spacers won't fit on...

What I have found is that it's generally acceptable, if not super perfect, to run a Shimano or SRAM cassette in a Campag system with adequate functionality, but trying to stuff a Campag cassette into a Shimano or SRAM drivetrain simply will not work.

If you're feeling experimental, grab hold of a 4600/HG500 Tiagra cassette; the whole block is pinned into one mass, but with careful use of a punch the pins can be pushed out and all 10 sprockets separated, so you can play around with your spacers to adapt to Campag spacing. Providng the spacers will fit on the hub..... Plus be sure to get the different thickness spacers in the right places, otherwise your tuning will be up the creek.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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ft_critical
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Re: Duck's Tech - Compatibility Notes

Postby ft_critical » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:25 am

Thanks Duck, indeed, I didn't even yet try the spacers on the shimano freehub body I have, so that might be limiting. Thanks for the tip on Tiagra.

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