Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby Cmm » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:46 pm

Hi

Will a standard ultegra 6700 crankset work in a 9 speed set up?

Thanks

Chris
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by BNA » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:14 pm

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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby DavidL » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:14 pm

Cmm wrote:Hi

Will a standard ultegra 6700 crankset work in a 9 speed set up?

Thanks

Chris


Yes.

- David.
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby jacks1071 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:53 pm

Maybe wise to run it with a 10sp chain?
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby ozdavo » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:00 pm

Should have no problem with a 9 speed chain. I put a R600 crankset (10 speed) on an 8 speed sora equipped bike. The 8 speed chain had issues immediately, but a 9 speed chain was fine, and has been fine for a couple thousand k's now.
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby Yonas » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:54 pm

Hi, I hope my question has similar situation as OP.
I have 9 speed Ultegra Giant OCR 2006 with truvativ crankset.
The guy from tHe bike workshop suggested that if I can find a Shimano brand crankset it has better performance.

Thing is I cant see any shop sells crankset for 9 speed gear.
Is the answer similar with what OP asked?

Is there possibility I can get the Shimano hollow crank installed on my bike?
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby barefoot » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:58 am

I'm running a 6700 crankset on an otherwise mostly 6600 drivetrain.

It works.

Of course, you use a 9-speed chain with a 9-speed cassette. The limiting factor for chains is how wide the sprockets are... a 10-speed chain doesn't have enough space between the inner plates to fit a 9-speed sprocket tooth in. Going the other way, a 9-speed chain has more than enough room for a 10-speed chainring tooth.

tim
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby Yonas » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:09 am

Should i change the groupset to 10 or 11 speed or replace the crankset only. I like my bike,the frame is still on very good condition. Just had the carbon part repaired too. Changing to new bike i may get lower quality components with higher price. Hmmm decision decision...
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby Duck! » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:15 am

6700 cranks have wider chainring spacing than other cranks, which shifters other than 6700 are not particularly happy with, because they're not geared to pull the derailleur that bit further. It does work, but not with Shimano's typical smoothness.

jacks1071 wrote:Maybe wise to run it with a 10sp chain?

No. Match the chain to the rear gears.

Yonas wrote:Hi, I hope my question has similar situation as OP.
I have 9 speed Ultegra Giant OCR 2006 with truvativ crankset.
The guy from tHe bike workshop suggested that if I can find a Shimano brand crankset it has better performance.

Thing is I cant see any shop sells crankset for 9 speed gear.
Is the answer similar with what OP asked?

Is there possibility I can get the Shimano hollow crank installed on my bike?

Just fit Shimano chainrings to your Truvativ crank. Any except 6700 Ultegra or 7900 & 9000 Dura Ace will fit, as long as you get the same Bolt Circle Diameter. Standard rings (39, 42 inner & 50*, 52, 53 outer) are 130mm BCD, compacts (34 or 36 inner, 50* outer) are 110mm BCD.

*Just to be confusing, Shimano made some "semi-compact" cranks and "compact triples" with a 50T big ring, which uses the 130mm BCD, while "proper" compacts use 110mm. If you match the chainring size to your existing set you'll be right.

Yonas wrote:Should i change the groupset to 10 or 11 speed or replace the crankset only. I like my bike,the frame is still on very good condition. Just had the carbon part repaired too. Changing to new bike i may get lower quality components with higher price. Hmmm decision decision...

If you change to 10-speed, you'll need to replace the shifters, chain and cassette, but crank & derailleurs can stay as is. If you go 11-sp you'll need to replace everything, including brakes and the back wheel to an 11-sp. compatible one, as the 11-sp. cassette won't fit on a 8/9/10-sp. wheel. There is no cross-compatibility between 11-sp & lesser parts; even brake leverage is different.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby queequeg » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:22 am

Duck! wrote:6700 cranks have wider chainring spacing than other cranks, which shifters other than 6700 are not particularly happy with, because they're not geared to pull the derailleur that bit further. It does work, but not with Shimano's typical smoothness.


I can't say I have ever heard that. I have 6700 cranks with DA7801 Shifters and a 6700 FD. Shifting is superbly precise. My understanding is that the only change with the 6700 shifters is a different cable pull for the brakes, but shifting remains the same. I use DA7700 brakes so that is not an issue for me.
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby Duck! » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:56 pm

The reason you haven't noticed any difference is 'cos you've got the front derailleur matched to the shifter. If you had a different derailleur, designed for more common chainring spacing, then you'd find shifting a bit rough. I should have mentioned that before as well (I knew what I meant, it just didn't come out right. :oops: ).
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby Jesmol » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:08 pm

Duck! wrote:The reason you haven't noticed any difference is 'cos you've got the front derailleur matched to the shifter. If you had a different derailleur, designed for more common chainring spacing, then you'd find shifting a bit rough. I should have mentioned that before as well (I knew what I meant, it just didn't come out right. :oops: ).

I'm certain you're wrong on this, Shimano compatibility charts show no uniqueness between FD/FC-6700 and FD/FC-5700 ?

Why do you think chainring spacing is different ?

EDIT : Just researched a little more, and the issue appears to be restricted to using 6600 series FD / Brifters with a 6700 Crank, which is the case here, but you had me confused when you said "most other cranks" , in reality its only the 6600 Cranks.
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby queequeg » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:22 pm

Duck! wrote:The reason you haven't noticed any difference is 'cos you've got the front derailleur matched to the shifter. If you had a different derailleur, designed for more common chainring spacing, then you'd find shifting a bit rough. I should have mentioned that before as well (I knew what I meant, it just didn't come out right. :oops: ).


It is the shifter that determines how much cable gets pulled. As I have a DA 7801 Shifter pulling a 6700 FD, if there was an incompatibility with old shifters then it would be evident. Shimano may suggest you only use 6700 shifters with 6700 FDs and cranks, brakes, chains etc, but that is mostly marketing to get you to upgrade (cable pull for the 6700 brakes is the exception).

Do you have some Docs you can link to that talks about the chainring spacing on the crank?
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby Summernight » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:35 pm

I have 9 speed triple Tiagra shifters with a Tiagra front derailleur. I replaced the triple FSA crankset with a Shimano 105 hollowtech II triple crankset (with the same number of teeth on each chainring as the FSA crankset), also changing the BB at the same time and it shifted perfectly first go (we didn't even have to adjust the front derailleur settings).
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby brett.hooker » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:42 pm

I bolted a 6700 crankset set directly onto my 9 speed sora equipped 2011 bike with zero issues.

Group set upgrade by steps...

Brakes first (to Ultegra)
Then did chain and cassette to Ultegra after having done 5000 km on the original ones
Then picked up the crankset for a good price on eBay and bolted them right on.

Happy to leave the shifters and deraillers as they are.

Maybe wheels next...
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby Duck! » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:59 pm

Jesmol wrote:
Duck! wrote:The reason you haven't noticed any difference is 'cos you've got the front derailleur matched to the shifter. If you had a different derailleur, designed for more common chainring spacing, then you'd find shifting a bit rough. I should have mentioned that before as well (I knew what I meant, it just didn't come out right. :oops: ).

I'm certain you're wrong on this, Shimano compatibility charts show no uniqueness between FD/FC-6700 and FD/FC-5700 ?

Why do you think chainring spacing is different ?

EDIT : Just researched a little more, and the issue appears to be restricted to using 6600 series FD / Brifters with a 6700 Crank, which is the case here, but you had me confused when you said "most other cranks" , in reality its only the 6600 Cranks.

I specificallyy recall from when the 6700 series was launched mention being made to the wider chainring spacing on the then-new crank. The reason is (my terminology) "gumby-proofing" ijn response to riders who cross-chain small-small & then complain about the noise & roughness of the chain skipping on the pick-up pins on the big ring. Moving the big ring out a tad more gives a bit more clearance. The 6700 FD has a slightly different length cable anchor/lever arm, which is where the leverage ratio gets altered, so it pulls a bit further for the lever stroke. I've set up 7800 Dura Ace shifters.FD on a 6700 crank, and there's a definite reduction in front shift performance as it struggles to pull the extra gap. I've also had to somewhat detune 6700 shifter/FD sets to not overshift on a different series crank.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Ultegra 6700 crankset on 9 speed?

Postby Duck! » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:24 pm

queequeg wrote:
Duck! wrote:The reason you haven't noticed any difference is 'cos you've got the front derailleur matched to the shifter. If you had a different derailleur, designed for more common chainring spacing, then you'd find shifting a bit rough. I should have mentioned that before as well (I knew what I meant, it just didn't come out right. :oops: ).


It is the shifter that determines how much cable gets pulled.

Yes, but that's only part of the equation. The length of the FD's lever arm between the pivot & cable anchor is what determines how far the derailleur moves for a given amount of cable movement.

I did a bit more reseach, and it appears that the change in spacing, and resultant FD travel, came with the 7900 D-A series, but more of a "thing" was made about it when 6700 was launched the following year, which is why that series has stuck in my head more, and has trickled down over subsequent years.

Front derailleurs from 7900 onwards, but excluding 9000 and its future derivatives, as they are different again, have a shorter lever arm than older models. For a constant cable pull, this means the derailleur travels further than previously, in order to jump the revised gap. Earlier generations can be made to work, but performance is not ideal.

On a not completely unrelated side note, it's why there are specific FD's for use with flat-bar shifters. FB shifters, due to the considerably shorter lever have a much longer shift stroke, which pulls more cable. The lever arm on the FD is correspondingly longer. As well as reducing the derailleur travel in relation to the cable movement, its extra leverage compensates for the reduced leverage at the shifter. If the same leverage ratio as brifters was applied, shifting effort would be uncomfortably heavy.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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