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Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:14 am
by AndyRevill
Xplora wrote:Andy, definitely get yourself 6800 cranks if you are upgrading. Make sure you get the standard cranks because I'm sure it is cheaper to pick up second hand compact chainrings for the 6800/9000 cranks, and you can swap them as needed. Even better to go TT chainrings LOL :)


Not sure my ageing legs will cope with standard chainrings on Tasmanian hills - I like my compact :D

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:07 am
by mikesbytes
What's the cassette width difference between 11spd, 10spd, 8/9spd ?

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:24 am
by Xplora
Just to clarify - There are no chainrings I've seen anywhere that aren't attached to a crank for the ultegra, but the DA9000 stuff will fit - my comment was simply about future proofing. I'll state again - the Shimano 4 arm design is the ONLY reason I am tempted to stay with Japanese groupset. The semicompact really pushes my buttons in a good way once you access a possible 11-32 cassette (which I just checked out, the teeth jump two from 14 up to 22, makes for a much friendlier cassette than I expected.
11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28
11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32

VS
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28

You're a better rider than me if you expect to spend any time above the 14. The 22 is basically bottoming out a 23 cassette which I do a lot on a compact, and keeping 3 bailout gears below that makes me think that's a decent alternative. Certainly no worse than the 11-25 which is running 2 tooth gaps from 17, except you'll be doing wheelies up 10% hills with the 32. I don't know - I get very little use from gears outside 14-21, and the smoother and tighter you can make everything between those cogs, the better.

Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:40 pm
by singlespeedscott
HAKS wrote:Yet to see any Ultegra chainrings actually on the market. Will be interesting to see what they cost when they become available. I went the compact route but wouldn't mind a pair of standard rings for the month or two of the year (summer) when I only ride flat courses.

There is a secondhand set of Dura ace 52-36 on gum tree in Brissie ATM. They've done 200km. $175.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:47 pm
by jasonc
singlespeedscott wrote:
HAKS wrote:Yet to see any Ultegra chainrings actually on the market. Will be interesting to see what they cost when they become available. I went the compact route but wouldn't mind a pair of standard rings for the month or two of the year (summer) when I only ride flat courses.

There is a secondhand set of Dura ace 52-36 on gum tree in Brissie ATM. They've done 200km. $175.


you got the same saved ebay search as me scott?


Xplora wrote:Just to clarify - There are no chainrings I've seen anywhere that aren't attached to a crank for the ultegra, but the DA9000 stuff will fit - my comment was simply about future proofing. I'll state again - the Shimano 4 arm design is the ONLY reason I am tempted to stay with Japanese groupset. The semicompact really pushes my buttons in a good way once you access a possible 11-32 cassette (which I just checked out, the teeth jump two from 14 up to 22, makes for a much friendlier cassette than I expected.
11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28
11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32

VS
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28

You're a better rider than me if you expect to spend any time above the 14. The 22 is basically bottoming out a 23 cassette which I do a lot on a compact, and keeping 3 bailout gears below that makes me think that's a decent alternative. Certainly no worse than the 11-25 which is running 2 tooth gaps from 17, except you'll be doing wheelies up 10% hills with the 32. I don't know - I get very little use from gears outside 14-21, and the smoother and tighter you can make everything between those cogs, the better.


OT: I want this in 10 speed:

11-12-14-16-18-20-22-24-26-28

I want an 11 speed to be similar. the 2-step spacing up the top would be much nicer than the current 21-24-28 that's for sure.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:37 pm
by Duck!
mikesbytes wrote:What's the cassette width difference between 11spd, 10spd, 8/9spd ?

8 & 9-sp. are identical, 10-sp. is 1mm wider (the big sprocket/carrier is dished inward to give the extra width, hence the spacer used on 8/9-sp. bodies to give a bit more clearance from the spokes), 11-sp. is 1.87mm wider than 10-sp.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:42 pm
by Duck!
jasonc wrote:OT: I want this in 10 speed:

11-12-14-16-18-20-22-24-26-28

I want an 11 speed to be similar. the 2-step spacing up the top would be much nicer than the current 21-24-28 that's for sure.

But you mess up the middle of the cassette then. The two-tooth gaps in the mid-range are proportionally bigger than on the big sprockets, so in real terms keeping an extra one-tooth gap in the middle & spreading out to three-tooth at the inner end actually gives more even intervals across the range.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:01 am
by jasonc
Duck! wrote:
jasonc wrote:OT: I want this in 10 speed:

11-12-14-16-18-20-22-24-26-28

I want an 11 speed to be similar. the 2-step spacing up the top would be much nicer than the current 21-24-28 that's for sure.

But you mess up the middle of the cassette then. The two-tooth gaps in the mid-range are proportionally bigger than on the big sprockets, so in real terms keeping an extra one-tooth gap in the middle & spreading out to three-tooth at the inner end actually gives more even intervals across the range.


then i'd be happy to drop the 11 or the 12 for something in the middle

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:07 am
by ozdavo
jasonc wrote:
OT: I want this in 10 speed:

11-12-14-16-18-20-22-24-26-28

I want an 11 speed to be similar. the 2-step spacing up the top would be much nicer than the current 21-24-28 that's for sure.


Are these close enough:
Shimano DA9000 11speed
12-28: 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-28

Shimano Tiagra 4600 10speed
12-28T: 12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,25,28T


Sent from my iThingy using Tapatalk

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:56 am
by singlespeedscott
The Tiagra ratios look like a good range. I like the jump from 17 to 19. Perfect for solo flatish roads. Also keeps the chain straight in line with the dog whilst your cruising.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:15 pm
by jasonc
ozdavo wrote:
jasonc wrote:
OT: I want this in 10 speed:

11-12-14-16-18-20-22-24-26-28

I want an 11 speed to be similar. the 2-step spacing up the top would be much nicer than the current 21-24-28 that's for sure.


Are these close enough:
Shimano DA9000 11speed
12-28: 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-28

Shimano Tiagra 4600 10speed
12-28T: 12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,25,28T


Sent from my iThingy using Tapatalk


they both look usable. never thought of going tiagra for the cassette....

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:59 pm
by Xplora
Makes for a challenging discussion... if you're riding with fast people, you need those small jumps towards the top because you'll use them. Preferably all the way down to 19 lol... but if you're just punching out kms alone, I just don't get out of the 17 much.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:50 pm
by HAKS
So first ride is done after finishing my build this morning

Positives:

- Shifting is incrediblly light, especially down-shifts. Actually didn't realise I had changed gears few times it was so light. Super snappy as well and the front shifting is very easy.
- Hood shape (narrower) is much better and suits my hands well.
- Aero brakes (6810) are amazing. Much better modulation and response. I rode with the standard 6800 brakes for a week before moving to my new Trek frame and they didn't stand out much over 6700. But the aero brakes are at another level. Never used the Bontrager aero brakes that come standard on the new Madones so can't compare the Ultegra ones to any other dual post brake but def makes the trouble of setting up the rear brake worth it.

Negatives:

- New cable routing options out of the shifter made it hard to set up my bike (internal cables both on handlebars and frame). 6700 had the brake on the inside of the bars and the option to run the shifter cable either side. The new 6800 shifters force you run both on the inside. This became difficult for me as I had to get both cables in through the small hole on the bars to run internally. Prob not an issue with externally run cables but was a bit of a pain in the arse. I eventually got them working though.
- Gear wire port on the shifters (side now instead of bottom) was a little more annoying to access but not a huge grievance.
- Rear aero brake has a really weird cable route and the cable pressure point on the brake hasn't been designed very well. Its just a washer and bolt which made it really hard to get the cable into its groove (lacked much of a groove) and tighten it. In the end I found on old washer off a Hayes disc brake which had a bit on the side (like this: http://www.bikeman.com/store/graphics/0 ... DP7727.jpg). Using that kept the cable in place which tightening etc and made it a whole lost easier to setup.

I did weigh the RD, FD, Aero Brakes, Standard Brakes and Crankset (170mm, compact) if anyone is interested.

Now just bring on Di2 which would make cable routing oh so much easier on my bars :P

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:07 pm
by singlespeedscott
Dual post brakes have always been better for braking. Much better modulation and sheer braking power. It's funny how something that was all the go 50 years ago is all of a sudden acceptable again. :lol:

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:28 am
by doggatas
I am so glad Ultegra is out now, I will no longer have to put up with the below disaster, 3rd cassette since owning the bike. Tell tale sign of this about to happen is a creaking noise, followed by severe chain slip (which is not actually chain slip but cassette slip). The new Ultegra cassette will be the forth cassette on the bike.

Image

Note: Cassette is horribly dirty as I knew it was failing but still needed to get to and from work, didn't see the point in cleaning it. Getting new chain when new ultegra cassette is available.

Note2: Shimano is replacing broken DA 9000 cassettes with Ultegra cassettes, thank you Shimano.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:35 pm
by singlespeedscott
There's a lot to be said for individual sprockets. To bad their not much chop on Shimano's terrible freehub spline. If the splines were a lot deeper like Campagnolo's they would be a great option.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:46 pm
by Duck!
singlespeedscott wrote:There's a lot to be said for individual sprockets. To bad their not much chop on Shimano's terrible freehub spline. If the splines were a lot deeper like Campagnolo's they would be a great option.

The spline is fine when wheel/hub manufacturers don't make the freewheel body out of cheese.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:42 pm
by singlespeedscott
The steel Shimano ones still get gouged.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:20 pm
by biker jk
singlespeedscott wrote:The steel Shimano ones still get gouged.


Really? Never happened to any of the six Shimano wheelsets used in my household. I think you mean marked rather than gouged.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:21 pm
by HAKS
Aero brake pic for anyone interested

Image

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjHLbudL

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:33 am
by Xplora
http://www.gear-calculator.com/# Dirk just updated this to include the new 6800 options. Schweet!

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:16 am
by Xplora
Www.starbike.com has the 6870 di2 groupset and parts on their site, awaiting delivery. Bit annoying that they still don't have a 52/36 crank available. Interesting times.

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:16 pm
by TraversW
Hi all, tried searching with no find so asking here as it seems most appropriate thread. (Feel free to direct me to a more appropriate thread)
I have 6700 groupset and getting an 10/11spd wheelset so would like to eventually go larger chainring and 11-32 for a great allrounder ride anywhere setup, but still have my old 10spd wheels for commuting.
What have people tried so far, will 6800 chain run on 10spd cogs?

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:34 am
by Xplora

Re: Ultegra 11spd

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:44 pm
by jheeno
Anyone know when the Ultegra 6870 DI2 will be available here in Aus ?