Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

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Duck!
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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby Duck! » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:02 pm

BugsBunny wrote:Thx Duck.

Do you need to buy the 11-32 cassette as a full unit or is it possible to just replace the 28 with the 32 cog individually?

Buy the whole cassette. In theory the individual sprockets (or pinned sets for the first few) are available for the better level cassettes, but you'll have a hard time actually finding them.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby queequeg » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:04 pm

I've just been looking at options for Fitz 210. My S5 has 11-25 with a 52/36 crank. I can go up to a 28 with the current short cage dérailleur, or I can switch the RD to long cage and go up to a 32.
My gut feeling is that I will only need the 28 cassette as a bailout. The 11-28 cassette swaps the 16 for the 28 but it otherwise identical to my current cassette.
If I go long cage I can get the 11-32 cassette that keeps the 16 and looks like 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
So, you get fairly evenly spaced climbing hears, but still only get a huge jump to the bailout gear.
I am going to hopefully do a test run in late August/early September on the worst of the hills using my 11-25. If I can do that, I'll throw on the 11-28 to give me a bailout gear for the actual event. If I find I am suffering then I'll get the long cage and go all in, but I can't see any need to change to a full compact crank as 36 vs 34 is close enough for me. I have managed 6 Gorges + Peats Ridge (210km with 4,000m) on 39/28 on a steel bike, so 36/28 on a bike weighing 4kg less should be ok.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:11 am

4kg in the grand scheme of total weight is going to make naff all difference.

I would seriously think about going the 28 tooth option. At the fitz you wont be going super hard, even in a group, so that 16 tooth will be unnecessary. Later in the ride you will be facing the climbs up Apollo and Corrin roads and the 28 will be nice for your weary legs.

The other bonus is that your 25 will now be easily accesible for use with the 52. This will be nice for the rolling undulations on your way to Fitz's hill.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby kb » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:03 am

jasonc wrote:
singlespeedscott wrote:Given your recent effort up Cootha I think you'll be fine.


one sub-9 minute effort does not a 3 peaks make

I agree with SSS :-). Depends on what you're after though. Completing would be a non-issue but sub-10 might take a bit of work. 34-28 was ok even for a weakling like me (3.3W/kg).
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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby queequeg » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:14 am

singlespeedscott wrote:4kg in the grand scheme of total weight is going to make naff all difference.

I would seriously think about going the 28 tooth option. At the fitz you wont be going super hard, even in a group, so that 16 tooth will be unnecessary. Later in the ride you will be facing the climbs up Apollo and Corrin roads and the 28 will be nice for your weary legs.

The other bonus is that your 25 will now be easily accesible for use with the 52. This will be nice for the rolling undulations on your way to Fitz's hill.


4kg might not sound that much, but would you carry an extra 4l bottle of water on your back up any of those climbs?

I am definitely thinking that even without doing the climbs beforehand, the 28 will be handy. I think the RD may have enough capacity that once I get a new chain for the 28 cassette, I should be able to keep that chain when swapping back to the 25 for racing.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby jasonc » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:32 am

queequeg wrote:I have managed 6 Gorges + Peats Ridge (210km with 4,000m) on 39/28 on a steel bike, so 36/28 on a bike weighing 4kg less should be ok.


I've done all my long rides in the last 12 months with 52/36 + 11/28. For 3 peaks, I have a compact crank ready to put on so that'll give me a low gear of 34/28
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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby queequeg » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:55 am

jasonc wrote:
queequeg wrote:I have managed 6 Gorges + Peats Ridge (210km with 4,000m) on 39/28 on a steel bike, so 36/28 on a bike weighing 4kg less should be ok.


I've done all my long rides in the last 12 months with 52/36 + 11/28. For 3 peaks, I have a compact crank ready to put on so that'll give me a low gear of 34/28


I think I would just swap the RD out to go lower than 36/28 and keep my cranks the same.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby jasonc » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:26 am

queequeg wrote:
jasonc wrote:
queequeg wrote:I have managed 6 Gorges + Peats Ridge (210km with 4,000m) on 39/28 on a steel bike, so 36/28 on a bike weighing 4kg less should be ok.


I've done all my long rides in the last 12 months with 52/36 + 11/28. For 3 peaks, I have a compact crank ready to put on so that'll give me a low gear of 34/28


I think I would just swap the RD out to go lower than 36/28 and keep my cranks the same.


so either way you need a new chain, we'll exclude that from change price. all prices are from ribble

6870 GS rear derailleur - $185
11-32 cassette - $62

vs
6800 50/34 crank $192

that puts me $50 ahead.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby queequeg » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:37 am

I only have a mech groupset, and the 6800 long cage is $69 :-)
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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby Duck! » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:03 am

queequeg wrote:I've just been looking at options for Fitz 210. My S5 has 11-25 with a 52/36 crank. I can go up to a 28 with the current short cage dérailleur, or I can switch the RD to long cage and go up to a 32.

As I said earlier, you may not need to change the derailleur. It does depend a bit on chainstay length, but it is entirely possible to use the big cassette with a standard derailleur.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby jasonc » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:13 am

queequeg wrote:I only have a mech groupset, and the 6800 long cage is $69 :-)

i did betterer - my brother sold my his compact for $25 :mrgreen:

and nothing is wrong with "only" mechanical
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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby vosadrian » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:49 am

I run 52/36 with 11-28, and I find it great. I think what you as an individual need for steep and long climbs is very personal. I have done 180-200kms days with close to 4000m climbing including long (20-30 minutes) at 15+% with that setup (one climb around 800m elevation at ~15%), and I prefer to climb seated at higher cadence. I was riding with another mate with 39-25 who likes to grind seated, and he did OK also (although he struggled at one point around 18% for a few minutes). My climbing style on the steep bits is to stand for a minute or two on the 36-24, and then sit for a minute or so on the 36-28 and alternate. I can do this for a fair while at ~15%. I still wish I had something shorter, but you hurt no matter what you have on that sort of climbing. I find the 52/36 and 11-28 in 11 speed is a good all round setup for any type of riding. Gears are close enough to be not much gap, and there is enough range for fast descents/crit sprints down to 20% climbs.

Cheers,

Adrian
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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby queequeg » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:01 pm

Duck! wrote:
queequeg wrote:I've just been looking at options for Fitz 210. My S5 has 11-25 with a 52/36 crank. I can go up to a 28 with the current short cage dérailleur, or I can switch the RD to long cage and go up to a 32.

As I said earlier, you may not need to change the derailleur. It does depend a bit on chainstay length, but it is entirely possible to use the big cassette with a standard derailleur.


really, I thought it was a matter of how much slack the rear dérailleur can take up?
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby Duck! » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:55 pm

Exactly right 'queg. Yes the big cassette does take a fair bit of chain wrap to cover, especially when coupled to a 16T front ring difference, but the standard cage will cover it, just. Which is where chainstay length comes in, and it's not automatically a case of shorter is better. Stay length affects exactly how much extension the derailleur is under to join the chain, and if it lines up so there's only a little bit of clearance (5mm or so) between the top pulley & free span of chain below it, the derailleur will be OK. Any more than that, you'll need to fit a long cage + chain to suit.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:54 pm

I use the Campagnolo technique of going small sprocket to small chainring for working out correct chain length.

If you have the correct capacity rear derailleur for your drive train your chain length will be perfect.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 11-28 vs 11-32 cassette experience

Postby Duck! » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:12 pm

I use the same method. :-)

If I'm pushing the (sometimes conservative) specifications of a derailler's capacity, I will mark the link I intend to cut the chain at (a loosely-fitted small cable tie around the roller is good), flick up to big:big & check again that it's going to work before committing to cutting the chain. In a departure from the conventional big:big method, I keep the chain through the derailleur while doing this so I can actually see if it has enough range. (Diversion alert!) This becomes reasonably important on dual suspension MTBs. Most modern rear suspension systems actually increase the effective chainstay length to some extent through the range of travel, so it's important to allow for that when setting chain length.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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