Shimano group set order

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mikesbytes
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Shimano group set order

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:25 pm

Dura-ace
Ultegra
105
Tigra
Sora
2300

Where does Claris and Altus fit in?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby Duck! » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:36 pm

Claris is 2400, the successor to 2300.

Altus is on the MTB branch of the family, which goes:
XTR
Deore XT (commonly referred to simply as XT)
SLX
Deore
Alivio
Acera
Altus
Tourney
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby greyhoundtom » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:33 am

There you go, you never stop learning, I had no idea there were that many in the Shimano range of group sets. :shock:

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:27 am

Thanks Duck

I was asked what Claris is like, by someone looking to do some gentle commuting.

Historically I've said that Sora is the bottom level worth buying and I recall someone saying that 2200 wasn't that good, however Claris is 2 iterations later, so does it make the cutoff mark nowadays?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby Duck! » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:41 am

The biggest improvement made at thal level through evolutionary upgrades is in the shifters. Although still 8-sp, they're heavily derived from the 7800/6600 etc generation of Very Good Levers (second only to current 11-sp in terms of shift feel), so there is a lot less free play in the mechanism than there once was. Plus they've got rid of that dicky thumb lever that was also found on older Sora and now use the same paddle design as every other Shimano shifter. The rear derailleur is still a bit floppy compared to higher-spec relatives, but it's OK for light to moderate use.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby Duck! » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:49 am

greyhoundtom wrote:There you go, you never stop learning, I had no idea there were that many in the Shimano range of group sets. :shock:

There's more too if you want to diverge further! There is also road Tourney below Claris, but that's seriously not woth mentioning. On the MTB side there are the Saint & Zee downhill/all-mountain groupsets, which sit roughly parallel to XT & SLX respectively, then you get into your Nexus/Alfine sets built around internal-geared & dynamo hubs.

And if that wasn't enough, there's a whole swag of "non-series" components that parallel the main groupsets to augment the range with more specialist bits such as flat-bar road shifters, CX cranks & derailleurs, disc brakes, etc......
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby HappyHumber » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:47 am

Plus the hierarchy chart is known to shift somewhat tectonically with bits & bobs appearing & disappearing every few years; but the loose time frame is there. I'm less au fait with the Mountain family stuff, but I try to memorise loose part series numbers as an idea of relative spiffy-ness to each other.
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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:26 pm

It's a bit of a nightmare judging the quality of low end bikes. Often they are a mix, perhaps as little as the leavers with everything else coming from other manufacturers.

If we walk into a shop we have half an idea what we are looking at but for those less knowledgeable its the style, look and possibly the number of gears
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby HappyHumber » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:48 pm

mikesbytes wrote:perhaps as little as the leavers with everything else coming from other manufacturers.


And that's probably still enough to warrant a "Shimano Equipped" sticker somewhere on the frame. It's always made me laugh how that's used as if it still means something.
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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby Duck! » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:03 pm

Shimano's real low-end stuff is still better than the other rubbish found on the bottom-dwellers of the market.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:24 pm

Duck! wrote:Shimano's real low-end stuff is still better than the other rubbish found on the bottom-dwellers of the market.


+1, i'd much rather work with a TZ or TY than a SunRun or Falcon.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby HappyHumber » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:06 pm

Guess I've been lucky enough to avoid the sub-shimano stuff for the most part; save the odd Star brake lever & calipers

though I do have this Huffy "favour for a mate" MTB hanging around my back yard at the moment. It's receiving all of the time & budget it's owner gave me reign with (ie. no time limit & no budget) Painful stuff. I just want to throw it back on his verge similar to how he found it. It's for his wife. I couldn't get through his skull it'd be counter-productive towards getting & keeping her riding. I think the thing would be better off as a fresh water artificial reef at the bottom of the Swan or Canning River.

I'll get the tyres holding air, a couple of 2nd hand/cheap'n'cheerful cable inners and a rough adjustment and that's it. It just doesn't draw me to working on it.
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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby Duck! » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:36 pm

HappyHumber wrote:I'm less au fait with the Mountain family stuff, but I try to memorise loose part series numbers as an idea of relative spiffy-ness to each other.

As a general guide the MTB stuff follows the same pattern as road in terms of numbering & ranking, but over the years there has been some "leapfrogging" of series codes through the mid-level stuff. Deore and the step up, previously Deore LX & now SLX have both occupied sections of the M5x0 & M6x0 sequences, which makes it hard to keep track of things. Although starting last year Shimano have begun phasing in a new numbering sequence (M9000 XTR & M4000 Alivio being the first, with M8000 XT joining very soon), which hopefully will make it easier to keep track of the evolutions, and will also more closely align the MTB groups to the road counterparts.

The codes actually make a lot of sense when you sit down & break them apart. The first digit identifies the group level (mostly - there is that leapfrogging mentioned above), the second is the series evolution, while the third and/or fourth identify particular variations of a component; for example, left shifter, front derailleur & crank for a road triple will have their part numbers ending in 3 (or 4 if it's an updated model). Disc brake parts are identified by 5 (or 6 for 6-bolt hubs & rotors).
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:46 pm

HappyHumber wrote:----though I do have this Huffy "favour for a mate" MTB hanging around my back yard at the moment. It's receiving all of the time & budget it's owner gave me reign with....
I've got a ladies BSO that needs some new spokes in the rear wheel, which is 24" meaning I don't have any spokes the correct length and with that piece of bike its hard to cost justify buying spokes for it. So my options are;
1. visit a mate I haven't seen in a while and use his spoke cutter and threader
2. score another BSO off a council pickup and get spokes off it
3. buy some spokes

And that one has twist grip gear changing which's makes just about any other group set on the planet look better
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Shimano group set order

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:29 pm

Duck! wrote:Shimano's real low-end stuff is still better than the other rubbish found on the bottom-dwellers of the market.


Likewise, having one shimano bit means a K-Mart and Target can put Shimano on the advertisement.

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