New For 2017

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Duck!
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New For 2017

Postby Duck! » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:50 am

I'll update this thread as more information arrives.

Following the trend of recent years for Shimano to release upcoming new product info some time before the actual launch, details are now starting to appear of what new stuff we will see later this year for the 2017 model.

The first (and currently biggest news) is the arrival of XT Di2, rumoured and anticipated virtually since the launch of the current M8000 mechanical group last year (in its turn a year after the M9000 XTR & M9050 XTR Di2 sets). In keeping with the trickle-down formula, like its Ultegra Di2 road brother, M8050 keeps the tricks of the top-spec set but packaged with more budget-friendly materials. It's not without a trick of its own though; by way of a new junction box and techo doo-dad that plugs into it, the Di2 system can now pair wirelessly via Bluetooth to the E-Tube software, which itself is also updated to include a mobile app, so you don't need to physically plug the bike in to do system setup tweaks. The good news is that this feature is an upward-compatible tweak that can be applied to XTR Di2, and quite probably also the road groups.

Still on the dirt, the third-tier SLX group gets its turn for a full makeover. M7000 brings an interesting mix, offering both 10- and 11-sp. drivetrains. The 11-sp. version is available with both 1x and 2x chainring options, while the 10-sp. is specced with a triple, but can also use the 1x & 2x configurations. 1x and 2x cranks are available in Boost-compatible (3mm furter outboard chainring placement) options alongside the standard versions. Cassettes are 11-40 & 11-42 11-sp, while the 10-sp. carries over the 11-32, 11-34 and 11-36 options from the current set.

Details of road stuff are still thin on the ground, but it is known that "non-series" RS405 hydraulic disc brakes will enter the range to sit parallel to the Tiagra groupset. They use the same butt-ugly shifter design seen on the 105-level RS505 last year.... Sora gets the treatment this year; in line with its superiors it gets the new four-arm crank design and shifters that derive from the 11-sp. models, but remain 9-sp.

R9100 Dura-Ace (yes, it apparently gets a letter on the front of its name now) has been the subject of spy leaks & rumour, but is not yet officially confirmed. Among the supposed details are Shimano's first proper groupset-branded road disc brakes, apparently substantially redesigned from the original MTB-derived models, a funky new minimal-friction, clutch-engaged rear hub, and a crank with an inbuilt power meter. Di2 allegedly gets the Synchro Shift single-shifter operation from XTR, and the wireless connection for tweaking from XT.

That's about all that's around so far, I will update as more information is released.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017 - Dura-Ace!

Postby Duck! » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:18 pm

Well here's one I wasn't expecting for another year - Shimano overnight released details of new R9100 (yes, like Sora it gains an R prefix this time around).

First, the evolutions. It remains 11-sp, but with slightly expanded gear range over 9000 with the capacity for a 30T sprocket. Mechanical brake calipers and levers - both mechanical and electronic shifting - are fairly minor revisions of the current bits.

The crank is heavily reprofiled but conceptually similar to the 9000 model. With a twist....

The really new bits

Might as well continue with the crank.... There is a power meter option. The sensors are fitted to both arms for true left:right balance. It's ANT+ & Bluetooth so will talk to pretty well any third-party computer, and the final trick is magnetic recharging of the inbuilt batteries, so no leaky covers to worry about.

The rear derailleur adopts the low profile Shadow design that's been a feature of Shimano's MTB range for about 10 years now, but the clutched + version remains exclusive to MTB. The current indication is that only one derailleur size is offered to cover the full range of gear options. The front derailleur has been heavily redesigned (again), to a more compact shape, claimed to be a lot easier to set up than 9000 and its derivatives.

There are proper Dura-Ace branded flat-mount disc brake calipers, although at present there is no mention of matching road levers, but in the Di2 notes there is reference to hydro levers for the TT/Tri bullhorn levers.
EDIT: Further digging reveals a full complement of lever options; ST-R9100 full mechanical, ST-R9120 mechanical shift/hydro brake, ST-R9150 Di2/mechanical brake and ST-R9170 Di2/hydro brake, as well as R9160 & R9180 TT levers. Shimano have paid a lot of attention to packaging to ensure all four road lever sets and the two TT sets are dimensionally identical and share the same ergonomics within their groups for optimal consistency when changing between bikes (oh to have that luxury!).

Onto Di2, the controls for the most part are evolutionary. Derailleurs get the same treatments as the mechanical counterparts. The big thing is Synchro shift comes over from the MTB stuff, as well as an all-new "Semi-Synchro" function, which when activated allows manual front shifting but automatically makes the corrective shift on the rear to reduce the gear jump. The wireless connection to E-Tube, as mentioned previously in the XT Di2 notes is also available, and backward compatible to older E-Tube Di2 groups.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby Xplora » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:06 pm

I'm really really pumped for R9100. Starting to look like the group that should have been out a couple years back... syncro should be really really useful for those using sprinter shifters in funny places (I like the idea of having them on the tops) and the integrated power meter offers some hope that Shimano might consider another head unit or at least a bit more muscle in the "data" space. Training Peaks has pushed a certain approach for a long time along with Garmin, and I'd like to see an evolution with data. I genuinely want to see a bigger screen with custom data. Shimano has the ability to push forward while Garmin is still trying to decide if cycling is worth the effort.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:52 pm

Some nice looking stuff in 9100, but sadly, none of it will end up on my bike due to costs.

Only thing that MAY get there are the disc rotors, but it seems that they are centre-lock only ? There has been no mention (or pics) of 6 bolt vesrions.

Any additional info Duck ?

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Re: New For 2017

Postby silentC » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:28 pm

Has anyone ridden anything with that synchro shift. Just wondering what it's like having the chain ring change when you weren't expecting it?
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Re: New For 2017

Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:41 pm

^^ I've made a few unexpected FD changes with Di2 and I suspect this won't be an issue for most assuming the change speeds are set fast.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby Duck! » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:06 pm

MichaelB wrote:Some nice looking stuff in 9100, but sadly, none of it will end up on my bike due to costs.

Only thing that MAY get there are the disc rotors, but it seems that they are centre-lock only ? There has been no mention (or pics) of 6 bolt vesrions.

Any additional info Duck ?

Good timing, I was at the Shimano annual launch today. The funky new rotors, as with the existing RT99 "Freeza" discs are Centrelock only. Only the XT-level RT86 IceTechs are available as 6-bolt, and the smallest they come in at is 160mm. For 140mm 6-bolt you must source from someone else.

A few more updates.... On the shifters, both Di2 versions (ST-R9150 mech brake and ST-R9170 hydro) and full mechanical ST-R9100 are virtually identical in size; the ST-R9120 mech shift/hydro brake levers weren't displayed even in mock-up form, but the guy doing the presentation said they'll be slightly bigger, similar to the current RS685 levers and thankfully not like the horrendous RS505/405 abominations.

silentC wrote:Has anyone ridden anything with that synchro shift. Just wondering what it's like having the chain ring change when you weren't expecting it?

I rode a prototype XTR Di2 when that was launched two years ago, but haven't been able to play with it in anger. The front shifts aren't unexpected in that they occur randomly when the system thinks it's necessary, they occur at programmed points in the shift sequence, and will only occur when you press the shift button; they're only unexpected if you forget where in the gear sequence you're sitting when you perform a shift. With the clutched XTR & XT derailleurs there is very little difference from a normal shift unless you're really staying on the gas when shifting. The new Dura-Ace doesn't have the clutch on the cage pivot to keep the chain tension on, but the Shadow derailleur platform is still a lot more stable than conventional designs so shouldn't get too flappy. A bit of chain flap is more prevalent if you're ripping through a multi-shift sequence & hit the synchro point, especially if you're downshifting because of the sudden slackening of the chain on that shift. I don't know if changing the speed of the multishift will alter the effect (the speed of each shift is the same regardless of whether you're single shifting or multishifting, and is not adjustable. What you can change is the interval between each shift on the multishift).
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby silentC » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:16 pm

OK cool. I hadn't heard of it until the other day when I was talking to one of the guys about the new Dura Ace stuff. It just made me wonder because I have heard a few guys nearly strip the teeth off the cog a couple of gears down when they hit a pinch they weren't ready for. Imagine throwing a chain ring change into the mix :)
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Re: New For 2017

Postby Duck! » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:45 pm

One other thing that's completely new is a so-called "Urban/commuter" groupset named Metrea. Coded U5000 and sitting roughly parallel to 105, it's a separate line outside the traditional road groupset rankings, and designed specifically for flat-bar & bullhorn bar cockpits. It's available as 1x or 2x11-sp, and fully cross-compatible with road 11-sp, so it's easy to convert to a flat or bullhorn bar setup on a roadie, or vice-versa without a full groupset.

The flat-bar controls are quite normal, but the bullhorn shifters are quite nifty. Functionally they're similar to standard brifters, but the entire brake lever swings inward so it stays parallel with the bar, rather than on an angle like regular levers. The release trigger is in nice finger reach under the bar. Braking is hydraulic only.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby Duck! » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:57 pm

silentC wrote:OK cool. I hadn't heard of it until the other day when I was talking to one of the guys about the new Dura Ace stuff. It just made me wonder because I have heard a few guys nearly strip the teeth off the cog a couple of gears down when they hit a pinch they weren't ready for. Imagine throwing a chain ring change into the mix :)

You can pretty well simulate it with mechanical shifters, but obviously you'll be prepared for it because you're consciously performing a double shift; at the same time as you shift the front, shift the rear two cogs the other way. That's exactly what Synchro does, but you only have to press one button.

They had a demo setup to play with, actually a hybrid test bed using the guts of the R9150 system in 9070 derailleur bodies, which being the older design aren't as stable as the new Shadow type. There was a bit of chain flap on downshift when multishifting, as mentioned previously, but the new rear derailleur should smooth a lot of that out.

As far as backward -compatible updating to Synchro with older derailleurs (6770/6870/9070), apparently they've been playing around with it in the factory, and an update might be released to enable it, but there's no official plan yet.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby silentC » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:01 am

You can pretty well simulate it with mechanical shifters

Yeah I often do that when coming into a sharp climb, press both levers at once, down to the small ring and up one gear on the back so that you don't spin your legs off. But I never change gears under load like some guys do.

Anyway I like the idea. Maybe my next bike...
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Re: New For 2017

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:00 am

Duck! wrote: ..
Good timing, I was at the Shimano annual launch today. The funky new rotors, as with the existing RT99 "Freeza" discs are Centrelock only. Only the XT-level RT86 IceTechs are available as 6-bolt, and the smallest they come in at is 160mm. For 140mm 6-bolt you must source from someone else.



Thought so :x

May have to get some better hubs, or if I win the X-lotto, i'll solve it with a new bike.

Would love to see a direct comparison between DA9100 & SRAM eTap on the same frame.

Christopher, can you set that up ?? :mrgreen:

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Re: New For 2017

Postby Duck! » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:53 pm

You'll have to be patient for that! While full mechanical R9100 should be around within the next couple of months (they're telling us August), the Di2 won't be seen until around January. The hydro brakes & power meter crank are slated only for "first quarter '17", but Shimano Aus say they're going to push for that to also be around January.

With the new junction box options, as well as funky Di2-integrating handlebars & stems from Shimano's Pro division, even though it's still wired Di2 promises to be almost as tidy as E-Tap.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby Belly68 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:45 am

So Duck,
Is the Shimano pro division going to release new stems and bars as well or the existing lineup will stay. Just pondering whether I upgrade mine on my defy advanced 0.

Belly

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Re: New For 2017

Postby Duck! » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:03 pm

Pro do pop new bits & pieces out every so often, but they tend to fly under the radar.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby Belly68 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:30 pm

Duck,

I was thinking of upgrading the stem and bars to vibe 7s. Will I feel the difference in stiffness from the stock giant bars. Just want to personalise it a bit, and looking at the defy bikes they used in the Giro this seems to be the go.

Belly

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Re: New For 2017

Postby Duck! » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:18 pm

Probably not.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby biker jk » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:31 pm


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Re: New For 2017

Postby rodneycc » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:22 pm

That looks awesome some of the changes coming up! And Yeay still 11 speed. Wonder if the new cranks/chain rings will be compatible with 9000 with the different teeth profile? If I'd known I might of been tempted to hold off on the new crankset I bought a couple of days ago.

Edit: or 9100 crank with 9000 rings? Hmm maybe. Expensive I bet though.
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Re: New For 2017

Postby Duck! » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:45 pm

The only thing they really suggest keeping generationally paired is the crank & front derailleur. Apparently the R9100 chainrings are spaced slightly differently and the throw of the 9000 (and derivative) FD may not work optimally on it. Otherwise everything is cross-compatible with existing 11-sp.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby rodneycc » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:00 pm

Hey Duck does this mean you'd be able to use those new 9100 crank arms with the changeable 9000 chain rings and leave rest of your bike 9000 (or any derivative). Or will the rings be a totally different fit.
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Re: New For 2017

Postby Duck! » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:01 pm

Looks like it should be possible, the spider arm angles appear the same. It might just be a bit rough cosmetically if the contours of the old & new spiders aren't the same.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby Duck! » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:41 pm

R9100 Dura-Ace mechanical components are now available. Di2, hydraulic brakes and the power meter crank are still some time away.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby Xplora » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:14 pm

My LBS The Odd Spoke in Dural has installed 9100 onto bikes this week. Looks good. I kinda like the stumpy crank arm from Campag and Shimano on the 4 arm BCD.

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Re: New For 2017

Postby 2wheels_mond » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:46 pm

In lesser news, I spotted a new 2017 Specialized AWOL with something I hadn't seen before - Shimano road shifters and a Shadow MTB rear derailleur:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes ... wol/115623

As far as I'm aware, shadow derailleurs don't (or haven't) worked with Shimano road shifters before. Some new indexing at play? The compatibility docs also suggest the the R3000 gear is cross compatible with the previous generation Sora (3500) - also something new from Shimano.

Some interesting observations, anyway.

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