Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

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Toyopet
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby Toyopet » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:13 pm

Started out with SPD’s and haven’t seen the need to ‘upgrade’ to true roadie pedals.....yet.
So I don’t know what I’m missing out on.
Or maybe it’s just a case of “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.
Plus it's much easier to use one cleat system across multiple bikes.

I’ve ridden with many others using roadie pedals who have:-
- Had major problems clipping in/out.
- Exacerbated the above problems after a short walk through some mud or dirt.
- Incurred pedal or cleat wear much faster than my SPD’s, resulting in their cleat not locking in properly.

I weigh 70kg and have done a few long road rides of around 300km using SPD’s and standard Shimano road shoes.
It’s always been ok, apart from the expected sore bum/legs/feet, which I think would occur no matter what cleat system was used.

human909
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby human909 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:17 pm

richbee wrote:If you don't like a simple 45 degrees, pick any angle you fancy, I'm sure there's a range for every material you and I can think of.

I'll take the full 3D sphere of angles thanks. Like I've said previously your application of stress(pressure) distribution has validity through a uniform material. But we aren't dealing with that here are we?

Throw it all into your favorite FEA software of you choice and with materials of difference stiffnesses and of varied geometry and you angle argument quickly disappears from view.

Likewise treat it as a structure as discussed and you angle argument quickly disappears.

Trevtassie wrote:Is pretty simple, trying to pedal a bike with your bare foot using a surface area the size of an SPD cleat plus the additional surface area subtended by a 45 degree line from the edge of the cleat to the top of the sole would be very uncomfortable. So bugger me if the sole isn't acting as a beam, what with the fibre, moulded box beams and stuff.

Exactly. Better yet draw the 45degree line from the pedal spinal. And suddenly the argument regarding the differences between SPD and SPD-SL disappears.

A little bit of common sense goes a long way. That and riding on SPD pedals in dunlop volleys. :wink: Also I'm damn glad my seat also doesn't behave like the previously described 45degree rule! :oops: :lol:

Of course like I've stated there is a basis for richbee's claims. But it is being incorrectly applied.

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trailgumby
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby trailgumby » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:03 pm

redned wrote:Reading this thread, I am not sure its geologists at fault.

I see what you did there :lol: :lol:

human909
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby human909 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:14 pm

trailgumby wrote:I see what you did there :lol: :lol:

When you have plenty of geologist friends you start taking such jokes for granite.

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mikesbytes
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:40 pm

My view is that unless you race or have some special need like needing a huge amount of float or needing to have your foot locked in line then you might as well go SPD and have the convenience of been able to walk around in your shoes at your destination, the shopping centre for example.

Pedals by bike;
Track - Look Delta with double straps
Road - Look Delta
TT - Look Delta
Fixie (commuter) - SPD
MTB - SPD
Family - none
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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DavidS
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby DavidS » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:47 pm

The only cleats I've used are SPD and they are fine. That said, I only commute and they really are well suited to commuting.

I just bought PD-A600 pedals and they are quite stiff, we'll see how they go after a few KMs.

DS
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Cannondale Quick Speed 2, Allegro T1

chriso_29er
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby chriso_29er » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:54 pm

I use SPD's on both my MTB and road bike. Simply because I got the MTB shoes and pedals first before getting a road bike.
My only issue is I probably look a little silly with grippy shoes on my race bike lol.

Though in reality, on my road rides I have had comments about my pedals but never the shoes.
I guess people check out my bike more than they do me ha ha.
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richbee
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby richbee » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:12 am

human909 wrote:Of course like I've stated there is a basis for richbee's claims. But it is being incorrectly applied.

I can see I'm not going to get a civil response from the likes of you and your self important ego. If your only desire is to belittle others then I see what sort of a person you are. I'd love to enlighten you on the principles of contact stress and pressure distribution as you are clearly lacking in this area, but I can see that you will only respond with glib statements and hide behind your own ignorance.
Good day, I have nothing more to say to you.

fat and old
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby fat and old » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:10 am

kb wrote:If you guys are civil engineers, I'd hate to meet the uncivil ones ;-)


G'Day :D

:lol:

human909
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby human909 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:22 am

richbee wrote:I can see I'm not going to get a civil response from the likes of you and your self important ego.

I believe I have been quite civil and this certainly has nothing to do with ego. I would readily discussed this further in a civil manner. I will continue to refrain from making things personal, I'd appreciate if you respond in kind.

richbee wrote:If your only desire is to belittle others then I see what sort of a person you are.

I'm sorry if you have felt this way. I don't believe I have belittled yourself or anybody else here. I have pointed out factual inaccuracies in your statements. You should not find such responses belittling.

richbee wrote:I'd love to enlighten you on the principles of contact stress and pressure distribution as you are clearly lacking in this area, but I can see that you will only respond with glib statements and hide behind your own ignorance.
Good day, I have nothing more to say to you.

Please do enlighten me if you feel my understanding is incomplete. However before you do so I suggest you have a read through what has been written and reconsider the arguments made.

I would say something is seriously wrong with professionals (of any sort) if they can't have a polite conversation to resolve their different professional judgments. I have no desire to belittle you nor do I have a desire to ignore a discussion. I learn from most discussions which is why I have them.

Like I have said. I could readily construct a scenario where contact stress and pressure distribution goes at all angles. A bridge is an excellent one. Using basic highschool vector force diagrams we can quickly construct examples that contradict what you've stated.

AndrewCowley
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby AndrewCowley » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:21 am

I tried SPD-SL's on my commute bike but found it really hard. When at rest the pedals wouldn't sit at the correct angle to make the clip-in easy. I was using new Shimano PD-R550 pedals (a step below the 105's) and the problem seemed to be that they didn't spin freely enough to allow the weighting in the pedal to do it's job.

I found it so dangerous that I went back to SPD's. Is this an expected problem with new SPD-SL pedals?

eeksll
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby eeksll » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:37 am

AndrewCowley wrote:I found it so dangerous that I went back to SPD's. Is this an expected problem with new SPD-SL pedals?


There is definitely a learning curve. Some people end up being able to clip in really easily overtime others not from what I have seen.

But I can't possibly think that it will ever be easier than spd's.

Sharkey
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby Sharkey » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:31 pm

I have often wondered why your average weekend roadie rider bothers with road specific pedals when SPDs would do the job (for most people) and are easier to clip in and out plus easier to walk in, so it's interesting to see some of the answers above.

Personally I have Eggbeaters on my mountain bike and both my road bikes. They are even easier to use than SPDs.

g-boaf
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby g-boaf » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:53 pm

AndrewCowley wrote:I tried SPD-SL's on my commute bike but found it really hard. When at rest the pedals wouldn't sit at the correct angle to make the clip-in easy. I was using new Shimano PD-R550 pedals (a step below the 105's) and the problem seemed to be that they didn't spin freely enough to allow the weighting in the pedal to do it's job.

I found it so dangerous that I went back to SPD's. Is this an expected problem with new SPD-SL pedals?


I remember 105 pedals sometimes used to do that when brand new, but I don't remember the Ultegra ones or Dura Ace doing that. I don't really think they are dangerous. All of my bikes have one form or another of those pedals and the shoes I use have the Shimano blue cleats.

The trick is to get clipped in with one foot (the one you start off with) and be in an appropriate gear to allow you to get some reasonable speed going and then once you are moving, clip in on the other side. If at first it doesn't work, you can just rest your shoe on top of the pedal and pedal like that until you have more time to properly clip in or flip the pedal over. You are already clipped in with the other foot so you'll get decent power that way and if absolutely necessary you could also pedal with just one leg (which can be handy sometimes if you end up with a muscle cramp/injury).
Last edited by g-boaf on Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fat and old
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby fat and old » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:02 pm

Sharkey wrote:I have often wondered why your average weekend roadie rider bothers with road specific pedals when SPDs would do the job (for most people) and are easier to clip in and out plus easier to walk in, so it's interesting to see some of the answers above.


Personally, I went for them because I didn't know anything about pedals. They were there; I bought them, used them and got used to them. Without the benefit of googling, webbing or foruming. I'd probably do things different now, but they work, and to change means an unnecessary spend. FWIW, I learned on my commute, in CBD traffic as well as paths. Sink or swim!! :lol:

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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:50 pm

[mod=mikesbytes]I get the impression that some missed reading Kalgrm's post. Please stop arguing otherwise I'll be forced to give some a holiday from the forum and I hate doing that.

A simple way to not get involved in a argument is not to respond and that's also smart as if there is discussion going back and forward its way too hard for me to judge, its way easier just to ban everyone
[/mod]

Kalgrm wrote:Guys, there has already been one report generated from this thread. Please try to keep things civil, including the bridge engineering.

Cheers,
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If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

fat and old
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby fat and old » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:54 am

Well well.....seems that missing the pedal can have catastrophic consequences...

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/mob ... qirdx.html

Mr Clear said his fall was only minor and occurred after his foot slipped on the bike pedal when he was about to start moving, causing him to lose his balance.


Can't tell what pedals they are though.

http://www.theage.com.au/content/dam/im ... 865959.jpg

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ValleyForge
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby ValleyForge » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:12 am

fat and old wrote:Can't tell what pedals they are though.

http://www.theage.com.au/content/dam/im ... 865959.jpg

Look like DH plates though.
I am too retro obviously. Crank Bros on MTB and Campy on the road bikes. And toe-clips & cleats on my vintage bikes.
Ha ha ha! Cookies on dowels.

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warthog1
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby warthog1 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:10 pm

fat and old wrote:
Sharkey wrote:I have often wondered why your average weekend roadie rider bothers with road specific pedals when SPDs would do the job (for most people) and are easier to clip in and out plus easier to walk in, so it's interesting to see some of the answers above.


Personally, I went for them because I didn't know anything about pedals. They were there; I bought them, used them and got used to them. Without the benefit of googling, webbing or foruming. I'd probably do things different now, but they work, and to change means an unnecessary spend. FWIW, I learned on my commute, in CBD traffic as well as paths. Sink or swim!! :lol:


Ditto.
Post of the thread imo too F &O.
No bs and to the point.

swaz
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby swaz » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:55 pm

Scored some carbon soled MTB shoes and if they fit well I will be using them for both the roadie and MTB. Makes sense to only have one set of nice shoes. I don't ride enough to justify a set for each setting... yet!

I never appreciated the ease of walking in that SPD shoes allow until I walked in SPD-SL's today and had to do the penguin walking on hot coals walk.

Keep and eye on the trading section for some used and very cheap Shimano road and tri shoes.

Calvin27
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:09 pm

Me 4c:

- MTB: Flats - I need to chuck the bike when I want to. I've done some longer endurance rides with cleats but I've stopped since the mud clags badly - much easier with flats.
- Commute: SPD because it's jsut easy
- Roadie: SPD-SL Only because it's lighter. If they made spd in carbon at equivalent weights, I'd be all over it.
- Track: SPD. I'd run red cleats here, but only have one pair of road shoes.
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firemac71
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby firemac71 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:46 pm


swaz
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby swaz » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:51 pm

Calvin27 wrote:Me 4c:

- Roadie: SPD-SL Only because it's lighter. If they made spd in carbon at equivalent weights, I'd be all over it.

80g difference between the XT and Ultegra pedals. Not sure about the weights of the cleats however we are talking bees whiskers here.


XTR- 310g
XT- 340g
Ultegra- 260g
DA- 248g

swaz
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby swaz » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:53 pm

firemac71 wrote:Im new to road cycling and was wondering what would be the better setup for a newbie - http://www.wiggle.com.au/shimano-rt82-touring-shoes/
http://www.wiggle.com.au/shimano-a530-s ... ng-pedals/
or
http://www.wiggle.com.au/shimano-rp2-spd-sl-road-shoes/
http://www.wiggle.com.au/shimano-pd-r54 ... rt-pedals/

any help would be great or any other suggestions.

What kind of cycling are you doing? If just general road riding I would go with the RP2 shoes (what size are you? I have an almost brand new pair here) and the standard SPD SL pedals.

firemac71
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Re: Why don't you use Shimano SPD?

Postby firemac71 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:57 pm

Starting out road cycling and size 43
There is a 50/50 split with either setup to many choices

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