Front Pannier Racks

Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby il padrone » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:41 am

WOW! Buy from bike24. they have cheaper rates than that I'm sure, and the German post may be a bit slow but certainly far quicker than 3 months of ocean cruise (try 2-3 weeks) and for about the same price - the VAT removal usually pays for the shipping, or more.

Yes, Sportpacker bags are the go - easier to use, flap is handy to secure quick-access or dampish items, and the capacity is a good bit larger (40L versus 30L for the roll-tops).
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by BNA » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:50 am

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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby Espresso_ » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:50 am

il padrone wrote:WOW! Buy from bike24. they have cheaper rates than that I'm sure, and the German post may be a bit slow but certainly far quicker than 3 months of ocean cruise (try 2-3 weeks) and for about the same price - the VAT removal usually pays for the shipping, or more.

Maybe I was unclear - I was talking about the cost of shipping the defective panniers TO the UK (ie to return them). These are AusPost prices...I guess I didn't really shop around much.

il padrone wrote:Yes, Sportpacker bags are the go - easier to use, flap is handy to secure quick-access or dampish items, and the capacity is a good bit larger (40L versus 30L for the roll-tops).


Thanks - good to hear you think this is a good move. I'm going for the front panniers again (so, smaller), but same general points apply.

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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby TouringPhil » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:04 am

Yes, the sport packer closures far superior. I first purchased the roll top Ortlieb bags, sent them back after they arrived, I did not like them, particularly for the front pannier bags. Purchased mine from Pushys, no problems swapping them for the sport packer and the rear bags with the same closure.

So much easier and quicker to get to your gear.

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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby pbekkerh » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:56 am

Hello
I You have problems getting stuff sent from Germany, I have had good experience using these package forwarders in Germany. I've used them 4 times with no problems, but can't give any guarantee of course but I don't know if you save the VAT that way. (I didn't try, as I'm in the EU)

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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby Leaf T » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:47 am

The Pushy's price is pretty good and local warranty is a bonus.

I bought the roll tops secondhand years ago before ortlieb was available easily in Aus and one aspect I like about them is I can keep all my food in them and seal them up from ants etc. I sometimes wish they were larger but it's not often. I may put the outer pockets on them if I want more room. The straps usually live in the bottom and I roll the top and strap it down. Very simple.
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby TouringPhil » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:55 am

I find Pushy's are great. I've purchased a lot of gear from them in the past month setting up my Touring Bike.
Excellent customer support on the phone and great prices, particularly for a Australian seller. Often the prices match or better overseas prices.

In regards to the Ortlieb Bags, I found the rear roll top was very good. But I wanted Red rear panniers to match my front panniers as the Roll tops where Hazel and Black, I exchanged for the Red Bike-Packer Plus and I'm very happy with them, Love the extra pockets, and I figure red will be a safer color to use on the road. (easier for drivers to see me). The front Sport-Packer Plus are brilliant.
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Front Pannier Racks

Postby Espresso_ » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:08 am

Espresso_ wrote:
Despite the quality issues with the first set, I'm sticking with Ortlieb and getting the Sport Packer Plus versions this time (not the roll-top version) on the basis of advice from Aushiker and others on here.

I might even buy them from Pushy's ...

E


So I picked up a replacement set of the Sport Packer Plus panniers today from Abbotsford Cycles. They cost me only $150 compared to $175+ from many online stores including Pushy's.

Only the black versions were available for that price but I can live with that.

Obviously the shipping time /cost and warranty were not an issue. Long live the local bike store?

PS great range (ie all) of Revelate gear in stock too. I wasn't well enough to ride there, so I may need to wait till next weekend to size up a frame and/or seat bag.

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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby Wingnut » Sun May 17, 2015 2:44 pm

I intend to buy a Porteur rack soon but I want to be sure before I buy and I require the option of it being able to fit panniers...can anyone suggest any other brands other than the ones below?

Pass & Stow.
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Soma.
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Velo Orange.
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby Baalzamon » Sun May 17, 2015 3:18 pm

The Surly Nice Rack can take panniers and I bet can be modified for doing porteur racks.
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby il padrone » Sun May 17, 2015 7:48 pm

Dutch-style

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One for the wizards

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Surly modded

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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby rifraf » Sun May 17, 2015 8:50 pm

Just in case you missed it:
http://www.somafab.com/archives/product ... rack-black
I notice both Soma's Porteur racks are designed for 700c wheels so "may" not suit your Troll.

I think you mentioned somewhere an initial dislike of the Soma due to it being mounted on the front axle.

I remembered reading about it being updated and spotted a quote on their site:

"- UPDATED: Additional interface with fork mini rack eyelets (If your fork doesn't have mini rack eyelets, you can still use the rack. This is just for addtional stability and safety) (original version will still be available as well later in the year.)
- Adjustable height
- Stainless steel construction
- Mounts to hub axle (can also fit onto eyelets of some forks if you don't use the tangs)
- Platform is 14.25”w x 12”d
- Lower horizontal strut can take a small bag or pannier
- Optional fence available
- Extra eyelet for dynamo lamp or other gadget
- Weight: 2.65 lbs"

The upgraded "Tangs" are most visible on their black model (chro-mo?) when you click on the pic and it takes you to an enlarged pic.
http://www.somafab.com/archives/product ... rack-black
You can see the axle mounting is now a bolt on plate if my eyesight is correct

Oh and the rack "fence" is an optional extra and charged accordingly, unlike the VO which is included as original equipment.

I noticed in my peruse that VO offer a small "fence" for my Pass Hunter rack aimed at the "buyers of 6 pack" market:

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/ ... -rack.html

I'm quite tempted to get one for the Ogre :idea:
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby rifraf » Sun May 17, 2015 9:41 pm

Wingnut wrote:I intend to buy a Porteur rack soon but I want to be sure before I buy and I require the option of it being able to fit panniers...can anyone suggest any other brands ?


Sorry but none of the below three are suitable for panniers but I posted them purely for interest sake for those for whom enjoy the Porteur style of rack.

Just spotted one called "AZOR FRONT BIKE RACK" which mounts to the frame.
http://www.dutchbikebits.com/azor-steco ... nting-rack

Only fits bikes with down tube diameters 29 to 31.8 mm

See also the "Paul Components Flatbed Rack" (no good with panniers but interestingly on topic)
http://urbanvelo.org/paul-components-flatbed-rack/

and the "Minoura King Carrier Large Front Basket" (again no pannier functionality sorry)
http://store.biketouringnews.com/gamoh- ... ront-fr-1/

I did find a Porteur style rack that accepted panniers but alas, like the early Soma, it appears to be axle mounted:
http://cetmacargo.com/pages/cetma-racks-info

I see there are even specialised bags for the porteur racks
https://www.builtbyswift.com/products/19
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby rifraf » Sun May 17, 2015 11:28 pm

A couple of links showing Soma rack fitment that I thought had some decent tips which "might" be relevant to other racks as well

http://oceanaircycles.com/2013/09/30/po ... t-dropout/

http://oceanaircycles.com/2013/10/18/up ... -mounting/
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby rifraf » Tue May 19, 2015 3:32 am

Heres a link that may interest you Wingnut as it shows an alternative fitment of a VO Porteur rack to a Surly:

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/orange ... 51739.html

I draw your attention to the top mounting to dual points on the fork instead of the OEM thru the fork crown as per fenders.

I've been doing some reading and a common theme of fitting of the various porteur racks (you mentioned) seem to include fitting via the stainless parts kit from a Surly Nice rack, allowing for the twin rails fitment instead of the fork crown single rail fitment which has no redundancy built into it i.e., if the single bolt fails, for any reason, your rack will likely dump you off the bike.
I've read of this fitment method, shown in the above moonlander link, for all three porteur racks on varies bikes including varies Surlys and fargos.
Sounds like a decent tip.
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Front Pannier Racks

Postby Wingnut » Tue May 19, 2015 7:51 am

After my discussions with Commuter Cycles they're suggesting the SOMA is the best option...

The VO adaption looks great rifraf! VO retails for approx $280 here...Soma about $220 but stainless not available...
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby just4tehhalibut » Tue May 19, 2015 8:11 am

If you want to be cheap about it Reid sell a Porteur Rack for $40. The mounts look nasty but something better can be fabricated if you don't just want to bolt the tray onto a standard front rack. There are many ways to crack this nut, including ghetto and custom.
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PS past discussion.
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby find_bruce » Tue May 19, 2015 11:38 am

just4tehhalibut wrote:If you want to be cheap about it Reid sell a Porteur Rack for $40. The mounts look nasty but something better can be fabricated if you don't just want to bolt the tray onto a standard front rack. There are many ways to crack this nut, including ghetto and custom.
PS past discussion.

I have the Reid rack and the rack itself is good, bit heavy but cheap. The mounts however don't just look nasty. The front support is drilled for bolt on axles which is less than ideal if you have rack mounts or a QR. The rear however is the bigger defect - it is just a bent piece of flat plate which bolts to the fork crown. Being just flat plate the load forces it to straighten, pushing the rack forward and down onto the tyre.

Thanks to you and to rifraf I am now looking at fabricating some better mounts. I do like the look of the surly. Have to think about the front because my forks, while plenty strong enough, do not have any rack mounts at all, so I will probably end up using p-clamps.
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby rifraf » Tue May 19, 2015 2:45 pm

Wingnut wrote:After my discussions with Commuter Cycles they're suggesting the SOMA is the best option...

The VO adaption looks great rifraf! VO retails for approx $280 here...Soma about $220 but stainless not available...


I'm not denigrating Commuter Cycles but I will urge you not to rush.
My experience of LBS's is that they always try to sell you what they have in stock and plenty of them up here in WA will try to BS you with reasons to buy their brand.
I was amazed to find a well known and recommended wheel builder try to tell me my choice of spoke was not only unsuitable for touring being not strong enough, but also that it was incompatible with my Rohloff hub.
Needless to say it hasn't enamoured me to LBS's in general but the silver lining to that particular cloud was that I've saved a bomb doing my own research and purchasing online mostly these days.

Did the logic they suggest stack up really well?
Seeing the photos of the detailing touches of the Pass n Stow and the ease of pannier fitment, I've almost come around to thinking the extra moolah "might" be worth it for the less compromise.
My real regret is that the P&S isn't stainless as that would make it a no brainer and I'd order one in a heartbeat.
As it is, currently for me, theres just too many compromises and I'm likely to stick with what I've got despite really liking the utility of a porteur rack for general duties, whilst not necessarily on tour.
As it is, you've now got me worried about the potential for oxidisation on my Cosmo and Nova racks.
The premium cost of said racks is a joke if they are subject to corrosion :(
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby Blakeylonger » Tue May 19, 2015 3:32 pm

I've installed and used (only counting large platform front racks here):
Soma
VO
Civia
Haulin Colin
OrcRack
Specialized (original globe live rack)

And I've had direct experience with a Pass & Stow and had a hands on with a TCB and a Cetma.

I'm sorry that your LBS experiences are terrible, but Commuter Cycles are most definitely correct in their recommendation here. The VO pales in comparison to the Soma for sturdiness. One piece custom racks (eg HC) are best, but they cost the most and are bears to ship. The reid one looks truly terrible, might carry 6 doughnuts ok.

Cr-Mo is the best material to use, easy to mod, easy to repair, it barely corrodes even if the paint is damaged and is easily touched up. SS is shiny, but it's also weaker. Ti is a stupid material to use, less strength, stiffness and harder to fab. Aluminium isn't great, but for the Civia & Specialized it was passable, only because of the crown mounts and the sheer diameter of the solid struts.

Those mods to the VO rack linked earlier at mtbr and OAC (that or silver solder on some arms as done by Cicli Spirito in Sydney) are almost compulsory if you want to carry more than a few kgs and not experience a ton of sway. (tip: clickbike are clearing those surly strut kits out cheeeep)

Panniers on a porteur rack shouldn't be an end goal, the rails are always too high, better just to get a separate platform and lowrider, use the setup you need, remove what you don't.

rifraf wrote:I'm not denigrating Commuter Cycles but I will urge you not to rush.
My experience of LBS's is that they always try to sell you what they have in stock and plenty of them up here in WA will try to BS you with reasons to buy their brand.
I was amazed to find a well known and recommended wheel builder try to tell me my choice of spoke was not only unsuitable for touring being not strong enough, but also that it was incompatible with my Rohloff hub.
Needless to say it hasn't enamoured me to LBS's in general but the silver lining to that particular cloud was that I've saved a bomb doing my own research and purchasing online mostly these days.

Did the logic they suggest stack up really well?
Seeing the photos of the detailing touches of the Pass n Stow and the ease of pannier fitment, I've almost come around to thinking the extra moolah "might" be worth it for the less compromise.
My real regret is that the P&S isn't stainless as that would make it a no brainer and I'd order one in a heartbeat.
As it is, currently for me, theres just too many compromises and I'm likely to stick with what I've got despite really liking the utility of a porteur rack for general duties, whilst not necessarily on tour.
As it is, you've now got me worried about the potential for oxidisation on my Cosmo and Nova racks.
The premium cost of said racks is a joke if they are subject to corrosion :(
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby Leaf T » Tue May 19, 2015 9:09 pm

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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby Wingnut » Tue May 19, 2015 10:59 pm

I think the Pass & Stow is the better of the Porteur racks so far but the price kills...I noticed that Soma have updated their rack in that they are now selling their Porteur rack with extra arms that are mounted on the side to make it a five point mount...I asked Commuter Cycles about this but apparently the racks they have in stock or available in Oz at the moment don't have these extra mounts...

I've been happy with Commuter Cycles in the past so I have no issues with them, put my name down for the newer black rack when they're available...

See the side arms mid mounted on the fork...

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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby rifraf » Wed May 20, 2015 2:47 am

Wingnut wrote:I think the Pass & Stow is the better of the Porteur racks so far but the price kills...I noticed that Soma have updated their rack in that they are now selling their Porteur rack with extra arms that are mounted on the side to make it a five point mount...I asked Commuter Cycles about this but apparently the racks they have in stock or available in Oz at the moment don't have these extra mounts...

I've been happy with Commuter Cycles in the past so I have no issues with them, put my name down for the newer black rack when they're available...

See the side arms mid mounted on the fork...



Is that not mostly the same as achieved by the Surly Nice "kit" shown with the Soma rack I linked to above and here:
http://oceanaircycles.com/2013/10/18/up ... -mounting/
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby Wingnut » Wed May 20, 2015 8:38 am

It is rifraf...
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby Blakeylonger » Wed May 20, 2015 11:34 am

Image

Wingnut wrote:I noticed that Soma have updated their rack in that they are now selling their Porteur rack with extra arms that are mounted on the side to make it a five point mount...


That is definitely worth waiting for. And even if you don't have mid fork / upper fork mounts, you can get rubber lined P clamps from autobarn to suit.

I stiffened up my shopper bike's basket setup in a similar manner, made it much better for the 10-15kg shopping load.
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Re: Front Pannier Racks

Postby SwimBikeRun » Thu May 21, 2015 9:12 am

Has anyone had any experience with the thule pack and pedal system? im keen to do some offroad touring/ bike packing, the problem i have is i only have 2 bikes, a roadie and a duel suspension bike with 15mm front axle and 142x12 rear, no one seems to make a rack for duallies or for those axles, any advice from he more experienced would be muchly appreciated
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