Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

With thoughts of a possible bike build, my attention is currently on racks and front ones in particular.
I remember catching up with Polishbiker for a coffee and admiring his front pannier rack,
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201 ... nsmall.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; as it was first I'd taken
notice of, that incorporated a flat platform. I think from memory it was a Surly rack and I was wondering if it was only Surly that did a strong rack in this format? (Load weight limit: 32 kg (70 lbs))
http://surlybikes.com/parts/surly_rack" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201 ... g_1955.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think I'd read in threads here that as far as rear racks went, the Tubus enjoyed a higher weight rating which would incline me towards a Cargo or similar, but I really like the apparent versatility of the front Surly.
Having somewhere else to strap light but bulky items like a thermarest/equivalent appealed to me.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 5961_o.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thoughts/opinions or drunken ramblings welcome

With the compact and lightweight gear now available, the extra carrying capacity is not necessary. And a 32kg rated rack is overkill for the front - more than about 10kg makes the steering far too heavy and may induce shimmy.
The Surly Nice rack is anything but nice in my opinion - it's ugly, heavy and fussy with its multitude of slots and mounting points.
You need to steel yourself to ditch that bulky, heavy, 30 year-old gear you are clinging to and move into the 21st century. Buying a lightweight sleeping bag was a good start, but I'm not so sure about buying another Minaret when there are so many excellent new designs available. We have one somewhere but it'll never be used again. Make the load smaller instead if increasing carrying capacity.
Ps jober as a sudge

RonK wrote:With the compact and lightweight gear now available, the extra carrying capacity is not necessary. And a 32kg rated rack is overkill for the front - more than about 10kg makes the steering far too heavy and may induce shimmy.
The Surly Nice rack is anything but nice in my opinion - it's ugly, heavy and fussy with its multitude of slots and mounting points.
You need to steel yourself to ditch that bulky, heavy, 30 year-old gear you are clinging to and move into the 21st century. Buying a lightweight sleeping bag was a good start, but I'm not so sure about buying another Minaret when there are so many excellent new designs available. We have one somewhere but it'll never be used again. Make the load smaller instead if increasing carrying capacity.
Ps jober as a sudge

Ang about! Yes, I'll bite! Wasnt it you who bought a Soulo?

RonK wrote: At just under 3kg the Soulo is heavy for a 1p tent, but quite roomy. I

Other than being heavier than my Minaret, will longevity be a feature of your touring abode?
I hope so for your sake. I have to admit that one of the features that appealed to me about my tent choice was the many reviews that espoused "bomb proof" and "long lived". Yes I'm a grumpy retro grouch but with all the new fan dangled stuff thats about, nothing stood out as wildly superior to my choice. Yes the Macpac Minaret is heavier than some at 2.6kg (complete pegs and all). It isnt a roomy 2 person tent - but (IMHO), ideal for one although its a shame its not taller. I've heard as a criticism that it a too warm tent, but for someone whose not opposed to winter touring/camping, I think, this is a bonus and not a failing in my choice. At long last Macpac have got it right and produced it in green. I have no interest in yearly upgrades to follow the unproven,
or latest fad,but like the gear thats done the distance and come out the other side still functional. One thing I do know about Macpac gear is the after sales service (from my experience) is second to none. I wanted my old Cascade pack to have its shoulder strap and waist band replaced - no worries and a one week turn around
$100NZ.

I've got my bivy bag coming for going ultra light so not immune to your opinion of "lighter the more enjoyable".
I have listened to you and the others and theres not much of my "old" gear left. I've seen the light with regards to light cookware and although not as light as your ultralight Ti cooker/pot (which I'm still considering) my Trangia is much lighter than my now only somewhat missed Optimus 111. My rainware has been replace with a Showers Pass Elite 2 jacket and I've welcomed my Ortlieb panniers/rack bag. I'll refrain from waffling about your recommendation of helmet of which I followed the brand if not the exact model. I found the Ionas a nicer fit on my noggin than the Atmos at the expense of some grams. Took me quite a while to make up my mind.
I'm unable to yet buy into the inflatable sleeping rolls as my experience is shared by the many shouting from the rooftops (or at least internet) about leaks/easy punctures.

I am committed to lightening my load but my interest in the Surly front rack isn't to increase my luggage but merely the ability to shift distribution of some of the bulk. I've asked in the hope that there might be a similar but lighter choice that I've overlooked. Tubus, the forums apparent favorite brand, doesn't appear to showcase a front rack with a "top". I totally agree with you that adding weight isnt the ideal goal and I'm looking to explore all the options.

I'm looking at items other than frames currently as none of the frame options (to me) is standing out as the perfect answer to my needs/wants/budget.

As for "jober as a sudge " I'm on the budget Rawsons Retreat tonight thanks to Macpac/Giro/ Halo/ Rohloff blowing the xmas budget. I'm looking at maybe "Bus"ing it down to Esperance and riding the coast back up to Perth at a snails pace to enjoy the sights

I suspect there are some options coming out of the US. I would "toughen-up" and head over to the BikeForums and ask there. You might get some interesting options.

Andrew

Aushiker wrote:I suspect there are some options coming out of the US. I would "toughen-up" and head over to the BikeForums and ask there. You might get some interesting options.

Andrew

Hiya Andrew,
Hope your weekends going well.
I shall take your advice and have a squiz at the suggested forum.
All just speculation at this stage as I still love my Moulton but I want to look at all the possibilities.
Cheers
Aidan

rifraf wrote:I shall take your advice and have a squiz at the suggested forum.

Have fun there. It is actually not a bad forum and it is nice to a different perspective at times on things.

Andrew

rifraf wrote:Ang about! Yes, I'll bite! Wasnt it you who bought a Soulo?

Sure - the Soulo was bought to withstand the Roaring 40's gales I'm anticipating in Patagonia, and for other cold and windy places I've visited such as the bottom of New Zealand. It's only one of my collection of tents and tarps and is not for warmer climes.

rifraf wrote:Other than being heavier than my Minaret, will longevity be a feature of your touring abode?

Being a Hilleberg it probably will, but longevity is of little concern to me. After particularly exhausting day while trekking at over 5000 meters in Nepal, I realised that my "last a lifetime gear" would self-fulfilling - it would be the death of me, and decided there and then to get rid of all my heavy duty gear. Out went the Macpac gear - Cascade, Minaret and technical hard shell. Then the One Planet sleeping bag and full leather Scarpa Manta boots, and everthing else that was heavy. I now buy mostly lightweight gear and am happy to replace it every two or three seasons or so as necessary.

rifraf wrote:I've heard as a criticism that it a too warm tent, but for someone whose not opposed to winter touring/camping, I think, this is a bonus and not a failing in my choice.

I'd go along with it being too warm for Oz - it's a mountaineering tent. My wife bought ours to do a TMC at Mt Cook. And anyway, I could've sworn you said how much you disliked cold places.

rifraf wrote:I'm unable to yet buy into the inflatable sleeping rolls as my experience is shared by the many shouting from the rooftops (or at least internet) about leaks/easy punctures.

On the recommendation of others here I bought an Exped Synmat 7. It gave me easily the best sleep I can ever recall in a tent - I almost began to enjoy camping again, and no leaks. But I have plenty of patches if required.

rifraf wrote:Tubus, the forums apparent favorite brand, doesn't appear to showcase a front rack with a "top".

There are plenty of options such as the randonneur types racks like this one, if you must have a platform. It could be teamed with most pannier racks. But I find that just adding front Ortlieb panniers allows me to distribute and blanace my load very nicely.

rifraf wrote:I'm on the budget Rawsons Retreat tonight thanks to Macpac/Giro/ Halo/ Rohloff blowing the xmas budget.

Cleanskins are cheaper

rifraf wrote:I'm looking at maybe "Bus"ing it down to Esperance and riding the coast back up to Perth at a snails pace to enjoy the sights

Now, that would be a nice way to spend xmas. But I'm taking my wife to Noosa for a few days punishment riding around the hinterland.

I also don't like the Surly front rack much - way too heavy, and a lot of pannier mount position options that I'll never use. And as for its fork mount solution.......

Surly wrote:Front Rack specifications:
...Weight: 1382g

Tubus wrote:tubus Tara
....Weight: ca. 360 g
Mounting parts: ca. 140 g

Now I'm no weight weenie but a whole extra kilogram is really too much.

rifraf wrote:I am committed to lightening my load but my interest in the Surly front rack isn't to increase my luggage but merely the ability to shift distribution of some of the bulk. I've asked in the hope that there might be a similar but lighter choice that I've overlooked.

1. Do you have a handlebar bag?

2. Is your rack-top drybag big enough? Mine is at least 30L.

3. For fiddly light stuff, like a rainjacket, warm fleece top, or washing to dry out - consider a Looprope. One lightweight solution to the problem.



In use

Another one to consider if the load at the front is going to total less than 25kg is the removable Freeload (now Thule). I got mine (with side attachments) from Abbotsford Cycles and used it for camping at the weekend.

http://www.freeload.co.nz/pages/6/freeloaders

clackers wrote:Another one to consider if the load at the front is going to total less than 25kg is the removable Freeload (now Thule). I got mine (with side attachments) from Abbotsford Cycles and used it for camping at the weekend.

http://www.freeload.co.nz/pages/6/freeloaders

Hi Clackers,
I think they are a great product but I'm sorta looking for something I can trust out in the back of beyond so really want something with no plastic or moving parts pretty much.
I thought long and hard about these as a possibility for the rear of my Moulton but in the end decided to stick with my rear flat rack which has its weight supported by the seattube . The Moultons seat-stays I decided were too skinny to trust with many kilos.
As for suitable for less than 25kg, I dont want that much weight up front on a possible Ogre anyway. I really just want the versatility of the "flat" of the rack for sleeping mat and maybe tent at most with two Ortlieb front rollers on the sides.
I'd pick a Tubus for the rear and probably the model that has the space for the Abus Granite lock (Locc?).
More for its wider tyre allowance than the great bonus of lock holder.
Scratch that as I've just spotted that the Locc is about 400grams heavier for the same weight carrying capability.
I'll have to do some more research.

rifraf wrote:I'd pick a Tubus for the rear and probably the model that has the space for the Abus Granite lock (Locc?).
More for its wider tyre allowance than the great bonus of lock holder.

Not sure why you think a wider tyre clearance is required. The best choice is the one I'm using, the Cosmo. Why? Well, not only does it look fantastic and has no painted finish to rub off, but it easily accommodates a 55mm mudguard and a 2" tyre, and like the Cargo it has a hoop which crosses over the wheel, which is by far the strongest arrangement. But better than the Cargo, it has two rails so you can mount the panniers lower and make better use of the platform to carry your tent and sleeping mat, lowering the centre of gravity and avoiding the towering stack you see in il padrone's picture, and also making the subject of this thread irrelevant.

RonK wrote:

rifraf wrote:I'd pick a Tubus for the rear and probably the model that has the space for the Abus Granite lock (Locc?).
More for its wider tyre allowance than the great bonus of lock holder.

Not sure why you think a wider tyre clearance is required. The best choice is the one I'm using, the Cosmo. Why? Well, not only does it look fantastic and has no painted finish to rub off, but it easily accommodates a 55mm mudguard and a 2" tyre, and like the Cargo it has a hoop which crosses over the wheel, which is by far the strongest arrangement. But better than the Cargo, it has two rails so you can mount the panniers lower and make better use of the platform to carry your tent and sleeping mat, lowering the centre of gravity and avoiding the towering stack you see in il padrone's picture, and also making the subject of this thread irrelevant.

Au contraire, mon ami , La Locc enables much more red wine with its clearance for a 70mm mudguard.
I've my eye on 2.3" tyres .......... well the Locc spec suggests a max of 60mm.
As for the rear racks flat surface..... That will be the abode for my Ortlieb 30litre rack bag and somehow at least one 10litre Ortlieb waterbag. I concede the stainless steel of the Cosmo is an attractive feature but its not going to do much for the colour co-ordination of my thus far imaginary build due to there being no suitable for my requirements, front version. Alas the subject topic is still relevant.
Oh and thank you for the pics as they illustrate your point of view very well.
Cosmo will have to go to my second choice position or perhaps first equal due to its being lighter than the Locc.
As the Locc appears to now be discontinued, the Cosmo will also win points on availability.
I do like the Cosmo position for the panniers being lower than the flat of the rack, allowing the rack bag to sit somewhat flush without an unsightly bend to grab the focus of rearward motorists with a penchant for fashion nazi-ism.
Your above link to the VeloOrange Pass Hunter Front Rack, Stainless Steel is very interesting. I shall look into the possibilities of matching it with something perhaps like a Tubus Nova as the only matching stainless front version I can so far spot.

But won't the tent and mat be inside the 30l rack bag? As mine is?

rifraf wrote:I concede the stainless steel of the Cosmo is an attractive feature but its not going to do much for the colour co-ordination of my thus far imaginary build due to there being no suitable for my requirements, front version.

It doesn't matter what colour the frame is. Coordinate Nova/Cosmo racks with silver and grey components and the bike will look great (you got a silver Rohloff and Son 28 didn't you?)

I'm pretty sure the Cosmo will handle the 2.3" tyres. Read Neil Guntons crazyguyonabike thread about Genghis Khan, his new Comotion Divide 29er. It comes standard with 2.2" tyres but only uses 65mm Planet Bike Cascadia 29er mudguards. Neil is using a Cosmo rack.

After reading the thread you'll want to call Ian at Flying Furniture to order your Divide Rohloff frame.

Just a thought rivbike sell a nitto mini front rack.





This could probably/possibly be combine with a duo/tara to provide a small modular top rack with front bags, that can be used together or independently.

Haven't tried this, but the possibility is interesting.

iacl wrote:Just a thought rivbike sell a nitto mini front rack.
This could probably/possibly be combine with a duo/tara to provide a small modular top rack with front bags, that can be used together or independently.

Haven't tried this, but the possibility is interesting.

Hi Iacl, the possibility is interesting. Nitto makes some lovely bike clobber and I'm a fan from way back having admired some of their bike porn on expensive Moultons that I used to perv at in a shop window in the UK.
This was as close in the flesh to Nittowear as I got as I remember it was very pricy. Still as yourself and Ronk have pointed out, the Surly Nice Rack isnt the only option and a small platform rack in stainless might be the answer.
Form and function......

RonK wrote:But won't the tent and mat be inside the 30l rack bag? As mine is?

rifraf wrote:I concede the stainless steel of the Cosmo is an attractive feature but its not going to do much for the colour co-ordination of my thus far imaginary build due to there being no suitable for my requirements, front version.

It doesn't matter what colour the frame is. Coordinate Nova/Cosmo racks with silver and grey components and the bike will look great (you got a silver Rohloff and Son 28 didn't you?)

I'm pretty sure the Cosmo will handle the 2.3" tyres. Read Neil Guntons crazyguyonabike thread about Genghis Khan, his new Comotion Divide 29er. It comes standard with 2.2" tyres but only uses 55mm 29er mudguards. Neil is using a Cosmo rack.

After reading the thread, call Ian at Flying Furniture to order your Divide Rohloff frame.

Not having had rear pannier bags for many a year, I'm well out of practice considering what, where and how to pack. One of the reasons for considering a new bike is the somewhat limited luggage/water limits on my current setup and where I want to go (and for how long). The trailer is a fine solution for extended tarmac trips but I'd like the option of getting a little more adventurous. The two wheeled trailer isnt then an option.

I did indeed limit my hub heaven greed to polished silver. I have a Sondelux currently with a Son28 disk brake soon to be ordered once the silly season is out of the way. I dont have a lot of patience to Ze German pedestrian post and if ordered now would add to an already stressful time of the year.

I'm about to try to cycle the 30kms to my nearest railway station to take the train to Freo for some fish n chips and a pint of stout. I shall see upon my return if I've the energy to view Neils thread. Its not so much the getting to Freo but the getting back I'm not looking forward to.
I'll update with my impressions of Neils thread - thanks for the suggestions

rifraf wrote:Not having had rear pannier bags for many a year, I'm well out of practice considering what, where and how to pack.

Notice that in the picture of the Sabbath above, I'm carrying clothing and gear for 4 seasons, but as you can see my panniers are not at all full. My load would have weighed around 20 kgs. Still, I'm carrying more than necessary, and could have reduced the load even more - there were items I never used on the tour and could have left at home.

PS - when in Freo visit Little Creatures and try the pale ale...

RonK wrote:
PS - when in Freo visit Little Creatures and try the pale ale...

I've called in there at least three times and agree they do a nice pint, however on all occasions I've been less than impressed with the service. They will never see another penny from my wallet - ever. I wont be back. In the township, there is very close to the market, a pub that not only makes its own beer but also has lots of "visiting" beers that gets my thumbs up. I frown on the $10 a pint but the service is exemplary in its friendliness and customer awareness and the stout is very very good. I return there when ever the opportunity presents itself.

What news of the repairs needed to the Pioneer that necessitated taking the Sabbath to NZ?

rifraf wrote:What news of the repairs needed to the Pioneer that necessitated taking the Sabbath to NZ?

Have not given touring bikes a thought since getting back. Sunny Day the Sabbath is still in his travel bag waiting to be unpacked and re-assembled. And Morry the Pioneer waits in the spare room.

Maybe I'll get energetic and look at them during my xmas break, but no hurry anyway since the next tour will be 10 months or perhaps longer away. Since changing jobs I no longer have long service leave available and will have to accrue extra leave to tour Patagonia. So I may have to forgo a tour next year.

Meanwhile, I'm reacquainting myself with the pleasures of my roadie, which sadly has been neglected for most of the past year. It's a pure delight to once again be riding a fast and responsive bike, and I'm going to be doing a lot more of it.

RonK wrote: I'm pretty sure the Cosmo will handle the 2.3" tyres. Read Neil Guntons crazyguyonabike thread about Genghis Khan, his new Comotion Divide 29er. It comes standard with 2.2" tyres but only uses 65mm Planet Bike Cascadia 29er mudguards. Neil is using a Cosmo rack.

After reading the thread you'll want to call Ian at Flying Furniture to order your Divide Rohloff frame.

Great thread and I enjoyed reading Neils tales. As much as I want to call Ian at Flying Furniture to order a Divide Rohloff, I wont. I dont think he's actually got it listed, but assuming its around the range of the Americano I think
I'll be taking a pass. Sounds dearer than your Pioneer?

My sit bones are still sore from Sundays ride, when I went to Freo. Part of the motivation was the chance to grab a Brooks B17 special to try on the Moulton (or its successor) that I spotted on Gumtree. It was new in its packaging (complete with spanner and rain cover - such that it is), box and all for $100. Not a huge saving in cash but a huge
saving in the pain and suffering waiting for the mailman. So I grabbed it as it was black. Perhaps the Swift may do a turn if I get the Ogre or Troll as I imagine these will have a more leaning forward position - I'll have to see.
Should be well enough armed now to be able to forget about saddles for a while.

Cargo rack on my Thorn Nomad, and 55mm SKS mudguards. I happily ran 2.3" tyres in Central Australia.

il padrone wrote:Cargo rack on my Thorn Nomad, and 55mm SKS mudguards. I happily ran 2.3" tyres in Central Australia.

LOL That doesnt make my rack purchase decision any easier Pete (thinking I was down to 2) but thank you for the info which the knowledge will help others following in our tireprints.

I appear to have rid the Swift of its nose deformity and twisting but it is still more broken in on one side.
Its more comfortable than before but I come to the conclusion that my setup and riding position on the Moulton is not conducive to a comfortable extended ride. I paid my money and my dues (NSW to WA) and have decided to be proactive about the discomfort. I'll put the new B17 through its paces and if not satisfied will try your suggestion of a Flyer Special.

Hi rifraf - looks like Velo Orange have some front racks with platforms that look OK. I was having a squizz at their website because Thoglette has a post over in the WA section about placing an order this evening....

Sprocket wrote:Hi rifraf - looks like Velo Orange have some front racks with platforms that look OK. I was having a squizz at their website because Thoglette has a post over in the WA section about placing an order this evening....

Hi Sprocket,
Thanks for the heads up