29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Aushiker » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:33 pm

I am in the early stages of reviewing my bike fleet from four to two: a Velomobile and a diamond frame touring bike that will handle going off-road, e.g., Munda Biddi and the like but also can do road touring duties when I need to travel there first.

Anyway I am thinking of going down the path of a 29er and I am aware of the Surly Ogre and the Salsa Fargo (which I assume can be built with a flat bar handle bar) but are there other frames of similar ilk? Ideally it would be able to take a IGH and front and rear racks. I appreciate that the Salsa Fargo may not fit a IGH without a chain tensioner.

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Salsa Fargo

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Surly Ogre

Thanks
Andrew
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by BNA » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:14 pm

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:14 pm

Hey Andrew

Now you have me thinking as well! Since a 29er is a 700c MTB can take roadie wheels as well just need to ensure 135mm hubs. The Ogre could be very versatile. I would be heading for disc brakes for simplictiy of changing over wheelsets. But the rear hmmm that is the dubious one. I don't want 2 rohloff wheels!!!
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby gabrielle260 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:38 pm

Hi Andrew,
Have a look at the Singular Cycles range. Either the Gryphon or a Peregrine maybe. There may be others suitable in their range.
Singular are lovely frames and are quite reasonable in price.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:36 pm

It's at the premium end of the scale, but very nice. The belt drive Comotion Divide Rohloff would certainly be my choice.
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PS - I think Flying Furniture are now selling Comotion bikes.

Or if I could chase down a dealer willing to ship here, the idworx Easy TiRohler has some of the most innovative features I've ever seen. BTW, the ti frame is actually manufactured for idworx by Lynskey.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:31 pm

That Fargo frame has some qualities I like in the medium sizing:

Longer chainstays than the Ogre which add to luggage loaded stability. 455mm for the Fargo whilst the Ogre has 431mm

Shorter effective top tube which for bad back sufferers like me can enjoy a more upright position. 565mm for the Fargo whilst the Ogre enjoys 599.3mm

The Fargo enjoys a replaceable dropout/derailleur hanger unlike the Ogre

No mention of Rohloff compatability though - Am I right in thinking you'd need the Long Torque Arm set up and a chain tensioner?

I'm thinking that the Ogre wins points slightly on versatility.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:12 am

rifraf wrote:Longer chainstays than the Ogre which add to luggage loaded stability. 455mm for the Fargo whilst the Ogre has 431mm


The chainstays on the Ogre maybe an issue with panniers.

I'm thinking that the Ogre wins points slightly on versatility.


Probably right but the chainstay length is a concern.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby toofat » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:08 am

Another suggestion in the versatile category though not a mtb
Ritchey Breakaway Cross
Light and fast enough for commuting when the velomobile is off the road
does offroad and lighter style touring
comes with a suitcase for the interstate and overseas trips without extra bike charges
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:03 pm

toofat wrote:Another suggestion in the versatile category though not a mtb
Ritchey Breakaway Cross
Light and fast enough for commuting when the velomobile is off the road
does offroad and lighter style touring
comes with a suitcase for the interstate and overseas trips without extra bike charges


No disc mounts and with carbon forks no pannier mounting on the front. Drops it rank for me very quickly
I'm liking the fargo, just need to suss out when my feet are still presenting a problem that needs a fixin and i'm going to have to throw $$$ and it most likely.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:31 pm

Baalzamon wrote:No disc mounts and with carbon forks no pannier mounting on the front. Drops it rank for me very quickly


Same for me but thanks for the suggestion anyway. Always good to consider other options.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:27 am

Aushiker wrote:
rifraf wrote:Longer chainstays than the Ogre which add to luggage loaded stability. 455mm for the Fargo whilst the Ogre has 431mm


The chainstays on the Ogre maybe an issue with panniers.

I'm thinking that the Ogre wins points slightly on versatility.


Probably right but the chainstay length is a concern.

Andrew

This isnt something I've found evidence of and I've been looking.
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 04064.html
Some panniers may be better than others with regards heel strike but until I see something more concrete
than anecdotal murmurings I'm not worried.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Baalzamon » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:46 am

I call on chainstay length

My masi has 430mm chainstays. I toured perfectly on that with no heelstrike and with size 12 US shoes using Ortlieb panniers
So imo the Ogre with 431 is fine with panniers that can be setback.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Aushiker » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:36 pm

Good thoughts on the Surly Ogre and panniers ... Sounds like it might be a storm in a tea-cup after all.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:08 pm

Read Neil Gunton's lengthy crazyguyonabike thread about the Fargo. It shimmied, and he got rid of it quickly.
Last edited by RonK on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:42 pm

Aushiker wrote:Good thoughts on the Surly Ogre and panniers ... Sounds like it might be a storm in a tea-cup after all.
Andrew

Hi Andrew,
saying that, I have noticed that some of the pics of Ogres with racks depict what appears to be a "riser" to add some height to the rack.
http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com.au/2 ... uring.html
Doing a search on mtbr.com and searching for Ogre and "heel strike" comes up with several posts denying the issue.
Perhaps if the issue exists its rack or bag specific? :?
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:42 pm

RonK wrote:Read Neil Gunton's lenghty crazyguyonabike thread about the Fargo. It shimmied, and he got rid of it quickly.

Good to be able to cross one off my list of possibles - thank you Ronk :D
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:00 pm

rifraf wrote:
RonK wrote:Read Neil Gunton's lenghty crazyguyonabike thread about the Fargo. It shimmied, and he got rid of it quickly.

Good to be able to cross one off my list of possibles - thank you Ronk :D


I am not discounting them that quickly ... seems a few happy riders in this thread at BikeForums for example.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:34 pm

I think this has pushed me to the Troll/Ogre

However, there seems to be a little fly in my ointment: Next I asked about loaded touring, using front and rear panniers. I was specifically asking about how the bike would handle with a full load front and rear. His response was somewhat surprising, in that he said that the geometry of the bike is really not designed to have a lot of weight on the front end. There is apparently a reason why they put that little Nitto rack on the website photo; it seems that if you put a lot of weight on the front, then the bike might get a bit "twitchy" (his word). He didn't know why this would happen, exactly (no doubt something to do with fork rake and trail, which I don't really know enough about, and he didn't either), but his opinion was that the best touring setup for the Fargo is to have most of the weight in rear panniers, combined with a "frame bag" such as those made by Epic Designs up in Alaska, and perhaps carrying a bedroll or similar light item on the top of that little front rack.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:43 pm

Aushiker wrote:I am not discounting them that quickly ... seems a few happy riders in this thread at BikeForums for example.

Andrew

And indeed no reason for you to. "Part" of my reasoning was also reports of them, when used with flatbars, being very cramped in the cockpit. They have a shorter reach than the Ogre as they were designed with the drops in mind.
I've never had a bike with drops as my preference is for flats. Drops may work fine, but I'll never use them as its my personal preference not to be bent over. I've read up on the benefits but as I've a bad back I dont like to be hunched in my riding position. No streamlining for me unfortunately, I have to ride sans aerodynamics. I even ride very upright on the Moulton and people have suggested I have a short stem quite raised (with their eyebrows). Anyway the Salso is a lovely looking bike Andrew, you should see if you can find one for a test ride. You've drops on the Surly LHT so it wont be a huge jump. In fact your body wont be sure if your on your LHT or Giant with the Fargos fat tyres and drops. :lol:
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby il padrone » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:17 pm

Baalzamon wrote:I think this has pushed me to the Troll/Ogre

However, there seems to be a little fly in my ointment: Next I asked about loaded touring, using front and rear panniers. I was specifically asking about how the bike would handle with a full load front and rear. His response was somewhat surprising, in that he said that the geometry of the bike is really not designed to have a lot of weight on the front end. There is apparently a reason why they put that little Nitto rack on the website photo; it seems that if you put a lot of weight on the front, then the bike might get a bit "twitchy" (his word). He didn't know why this would happen, exactly (no doubt something to do with fork rake and trail, which I don't really know enough about, and he didn't either), but his opinion was that the best touring setup for the Fargo is to have most of the weight in rear panniers, combined with a "frame bag" such as those made by Epic Designs up in Alaska, and perhaps carrying a bedroll or similar light item on the top of that little front rack.

So why on earth does the frame get pictured with front forks that have mid-fork rack mounts ???
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:32 pm

I'm wondering why so many of the bikes seem now to have a straight fork with no bend in it.
I'm wondering just how jarring a ride it makes for. I'm guessing its something to do with the disk brakes as the bikes
I've noticed it on seem to share this correlation. Something else for you to consider Andrew is that there is a lot more hits on fargo than Ogre in the CGOAB site which may/may not be relevant although I think the fargo has been out for a few years now which might have something to do with it. :?
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Wakatuki » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:03 am

Have nothing to add as I know nothing about this subject, yet.... But WoW that is one sweet ride.
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RonK had a look at some of your touring threads, your quite the inspiration. Maybe when I get some long service leave.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:24 am

rifraf wrote:I've never had a bike with drops as my preference is for flats. Drops may work fine, but I'll never use them as its my personal preference not to be bent over.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Why is it that people persist with the idea that using drop bars means they are compelled to use the lowest position?

Most tourists with drop bars would rarely ride in the drops, and mostly use the multiple hand positions along the tops, where the riding position need be no lower than with flat bars.

I dislike flats. Even with bar ends there are not enough hand positions to relieve discomfort. But since I rarely use the drops, I'm considering bullhorns to replace the flats on my Van Nicholas, these will give me the same multiple hand positions without the drops.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby il padrone » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:44 am

RonK wrote:
rifraf wrote:I've never had a bike with drops as my preference is for flats. Drops may work fine, but I'll never use them as its my personal preference not to be bent over.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Why is it that people persist with the idea that using drop bars means they are compelled to use the lowest position?

Yeah, swaggy-bars rule :P

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:50 pm

il padrone wrote:
RonK wrote:
rifraf wrote:I've never had a bike with drops as my preference is for flats. Drops may work fine, but I'll never use them as its my personal preference not to be bent over.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Why is it that people persist with the idea that using drop bars means they are compelled to use the lowest position?

Yeah, swaggy-bars rule :P

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Hehe - yes that was exactly the usual bar position when I was a kid. :)
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:54 pm

Maybe they knew something that we don't? Certainly most of the roads back then would have been like what the OP intends to ride hid bike on.
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