29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Wingnut » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:42 pm

@rifraf,

I've only heard good words about them...I look forward to seeing your review once fitted...
Charliethebikemonger.com sells them for $191 AUD plus postage costs!...I think I'd stick to ordering off http://www.jonesbikes.com atm...


@singlespeedscott,

Yeah I realised the sweeping back of the Loop-H handlebars would affect my position considerably, I'm used to a more aggressive road racing position...my issue is I'm using a 135mm stem and a Brooks B17 (short rails) shoved back as far as it can go already...I think I would be a bit too squashed up with the Jones bars...but they look so cool! :(
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by BNA » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:19 pm

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:19 pm

I considered a Jones bar for my Pioneer build, but had doubts that a handlebar bag could be used with the loop bar. Perhaps with the cut loop bar?
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:36 pm

RonK wrote:I considered a Jones bar for my Pioneer build, but had doubts that a handlebar bag could be used with the loop bar. Perhaps with the cut loop bar?


Yes with the cut loop bar. Aidan has tried that already and it fits nicely.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Wingnut » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:55 pm

I have one of these from Revelate Designs so the loop bar would 'sort' of be ok in that dept...really only works well if your sleeping bag is packed under...

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:27 pm

Wingnut wrote:@rifraf,

I've only heard good words about them...I look forward to seeing your review once fitted...
Charliethebikemonger.com sells them for $191 AUD plus postage costs!...I think I'd stick to ordering off http://www.jonesbikes.com atm...


@singlespeedscott,

Yeah I realised the sweeping back of the Loop-H handlebars would affect my position considerably, I'm used to a more aggressive road racing position...my issue is I'm using a 135mm stem and a Brooks B17 (short rails) shoved back as far as it can go already...I think I would be a bit too squashed up with the Jones bars...but they look so cool! :(

Hi Wingnut,
dont forget with Charlies prices to take off VAT as I dont think its taken off till almost at the end of the buying transaction. I know you look and see Australian prices on the site pages but they still include VAT.

Jeffs prices are a fraction cheaper with the alloy bars but only a smidgeon and the postage is only a little less pedestrian than Ze Germans.
The Poms seem to have their postage sorted to a fine T. Nice and speedy and in fact often quicker than sending something nationally, bless their little whingeing cotten socks.
What I'm saying is that after postage has been added, Jeff appeared to be less than $12 cheaper and shipping to WA from the US often is in excess of two weeks whilst Charlies postage is often within a week.
I'm at the point in my build where time is now of more essence to me than saving a few dollars as its been going on too long.

The Ti bars are a different story with Jeff recently dropping his price by what seems to be close to $100.
I'm sure they were around $500 but are now $380 + P&P.
I wish I was brave enough to just press the button but I'm unsure if its sense or tightness thats keeping my finger off the trigger.
The Ti has a reputation for superior comfort over alloy and the Ogre has a rep for a UN-compliant rigid front end.
That price though is quite an investment in a maybe.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:37 pm

RonK wrote:I considered a Jones bar for my Pioneer build, but had doubts that a handlebar bag could be used with the loop bar. Perhaps with the cut loop bar?

I'm hoping that the bar bag wont look too silly and wayward.
I imagine with the full loop version that I prefer, I'd have to do away with the R&K extender that I utilise on the Moulton.
What are your thoughts on the alloy over the Ti Ron if price nor bling wasnt a factor.
Any idea as to the snake oil sales spiel about Ti's compliant factor? :lol:
I'm only joking as Jeffs pitch is very restrained compared to many but I am curious as to the possibilities of more
comfort for more dollars. Comfort is important to me.
Up to a point I'll accept weight for comfort, hence my choice of tyre but I also seek to save weight where I can hence my lighter Dyad rims over Chucker and CX-Rays over butted.

A reread above makes for confused waffle reading.
I guess I'm asking your opinion on whether some minimal flex in the Ti is going to add some comfort over the rigidness of the alloy version.
I'll still have to make up my own tiny mind as to the perceived bang for buck relevance and how relevant it might be when if it was the be all and end all, why he'd bother selling the alloy version (which I imagine is the "seller" of the two)
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:40 pm

Well as mentioned I looked at this bar previously, but at the price it was not worth serious consideration so I didn't take the time to see if a bag could be fitted.
I would choose the Ti bar to compliment my Ti frame, but I can't see why you would bother with the extra expense. I already have a Ti flat bar and if it's more compliant it's not enough for me to feel the difference.

But I'm not convinced an Ortlieb bag will work with a loop bar - maybe with the extender upside down and angled down. The cut bar may work and since it's narrower is probably a better choice for touring, but I'll have to get the tape measure out and check.

It may be worthwhile seeking comment from Jones.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:19 pm

RonK wrote:Well as mentioned I looked at this bar previously, but at the price it was not worth serious consideration so I didn't take the time to see if a bag could be fitted.
I would choose the Ti bar to compliment my Ti frame, but I can't see why you would bother with the extra expense. I already have a Ti flat bar and if it's more compliant it's not enough for me to feel the difference.

But I'm not convinced an Ortlieb bag will work with a loop bar - maybe with the extender upside down and angled down. The cut bar may work and since it's narrower is probably a better choice for touring, but I'll have to get the tape measure out and check.

It may be worthwhile seeking comment from Jones.

Hi Ron,
Is the issue the visual aesthetics or is it the diameter of the outer curved bar your referring to?
From what your saying ("maybe with the extender upside down and angled down"), I think I'm hearing your concern is that its bar diameter thats the potential problem on the loop bar?
I'm not sure of the why it wouldnt attach to the outer bar - so I've obviously over looked something.
I'm feeling too tired & lazy today to start ripping off the R&K attachment off the Moulton.
Perhaps tomorrow.
I'm thinking its perhaps how the wire loops around the stem to hold its place..... Hmmmmmm didnt think of that
and I'm sure using the inner bar wouldnt work like you suggest. Hmmmmmm obviously more thinking needed.
I'd feel lost without my barbag :?
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:38 pm

A second closer look at the J-bar has me second guessing even the use of that bar with the Ortlieb.
The bag doesnt sit inside the cut so whilst it looks like it might be a go with a slight downward angle of the grips,
which I like, the forward lifting bag top looks to be an issue.
A discrete screw in the inner of the front bar (of the Loop version) to hold the wire perhaps? :idea:
My head hurts :?

Yes the clamping of the wire to stop the bag attachment rolling forwards is something i didnt consider.
A solution thats visually elegant is the challenge but beyond me tonight.

Whilst theres plenty of room for a second ahead stem on my steerer the weight penalty and aesthetics isnt an attractive proposition but may be my only work around without risking the structural integrity of the bar.

Having a couple of kilo's bouncing around the very front and middle of the loop bar (via some sort of wire clamp) probably isnt good for its health. :|

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Last edited by rifraf on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:00 pm

Yes, I was thinking that the mount would have to be fitted to the inner bar so the wire could be looped around the stem. But then the lid would foul on the outer bar.

But your comment about using a screw to mount on the outer bar got me thinking - you could use small stainless steel worm drive hose clamp around the bar as anchor point. With the worm drive out of sight on the underside it would be presentable.

The bag would be a out long way in front of the bar though. Probably ok if you don't load the bag heavily, otherwise steering stability may be affected.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:11 pm

RonK wrote:But your comment about using a screw to mount on the outer bar got me thinking - you could use small stainless steel worm drive hose clamp around the bar as anchor point. With the worm drive out of sight on the underside it would be presentable.

The bag would be a out long way in front of the bar though. Probably ok if you don't load the bag heavily, otherwise steering stability may be affected.

A risk I'd consider with the Ti bar with its steellike strength but perhaps not what I'd be comfortable with a bar thats alloy with its inherent fatigue issues. :(
I'm not a fan of aluminium in critical areas hence my temptation of the Ti bars and thats without the barbag
consideration.
I usually carry more than I should in my bar bag being comfortable with the strength of my Reynolds steel bars on the Moulton.
(either 753 or 953 I cant remember and not sure if the stickers still on them)
On my budget APB it was the only decent bit of steel in the build although later versions got 531 for the seat tube and head tube.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:12 pm

Anyones eyes good enough to see how this birds done it? :o
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 492&type=1

There might be some Rixon & Kaul adapters that might work perhaps.
I'll start looking closely at ones like:
http://www.klickfix.com/index.php?lang=en
Sorry it appears I cant direct link, but there are potential options worth looking at under "KLICKfix Handlebar Adapter System"
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:48 pm

rifraf wrote:Anyones eyes good enough to see how this birds done it? :o
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 492&type=1

There might be some Rixon & Kaul adapters that might work perhaps.
I'll start looking closely at ones like:
http://www.klickfix.com/index.php?lang=en
Sorry it appears I cant direct link, but there are potential options worth looking at under "KLICKfix Handlebar Adapter System"

Yes, it's mounted on an SJS extender, or similar bracket.

Had a look at the other mounts but can't see anything useable.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:26 am

RonK wrote:Yes, it's mounted on an SJS extender, or similar bracket.

Had a look at the other mounts but can't see anything useable.


Well spotted Ron.
Her partner, Henrik very promptly answered my question on their blog page.
He confirms your thoughts in that they used a Thorn accessory bar:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-access ... prod11040/
They too worried about the structural integrity of the Jones bar with a bar bag swinging off it.
I really must get my eyes tested
Cheers
Aidan :)
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:00 pm

I still think it may be possible that the RK mount and extender would be long enough to clear the front bar, and by fitting the extender upside-down (I have done this previously) can get the mount a little lower.
I've emailed Jones for the cross bar to loop bar dimension to see if it will go.

BTW, Ergon has released a Rohloff/Nexus version the new GC1 grip for swept-back bars. Might be a good match for the H bar.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:48 pm

RonK wrote:I still think it may be possible that the RK mount and extender would be long enough to clear the front bar, and by fitting the extender upside-down (I have done this previously) can get the mount a little lower.
I've emailed Jones for the cross bar to loop bar dimension to see if it will go.

BTW, Ergon has released a Rohloff/Nexus version the new GC1 grip for swept-back bars. Might be a good match for the H bar.

Ah well there looks like a couple of possible options anyway.
Please give us an update after hearing from J Jones as I'd like to know more.

As for the grips, after your talking up the lack of sweat associated with cork, I've been looking at the cork grips on the Jones site:
http://www.jonesbikes.com/Handlebars/Gr ... y.tpl.html
However I will swing by ergon and have a squiz at the GC1 grip.
Thanks for the tip. :)

Update:
I found the Ergon site and the new "GC1" but under versions could find no mention of Rohloff.
It talks of for "regular shifters or Nexus" where other versions specifically talk of:
" for regular shifters, Gripshift® and Rohloff® / Nexus " - (GP1)
I'm confused :? I've seen Nexus...... hmmmmm they might have been Alfine, triggershifters.
Is there a Nexus gripshifter?
My Ergons on the Moulton were shorter in length for gripshift compatibility.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:16 pm

rifraf wrote:I found the Ergon site and the new "GC1" but under versions could find no mention of Rohloff.
It talks of for "regular shifters or Nexus" where other versions specifically talk of:
" for regular shifters, Gripshift® and Rohloff® / Nexus " - (GP1)
I'm confused :? I've seen Nexus...... hmmmmm they might have been Alfine, triggershifters.
Is there a Nexus gripshifter?
My Ergons on the Moulton were shorter in length for gripshift compatibility.

Yeah, the Ergon site seems to be out of date - the UK distributor shows this version.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:58 pm

RonK wrote:
rifraf wrote:I found the Ergon site and the new "GC1" but under versions could find no mention of Rohloff.
It talks of for "regular shifters or Nexus" where other versions specifically talk of:
" for regular shifters, Gripshift[REGISTERED SIGN] and Rohloff[REGISTERED SIGN] / Nexus " - (GP1)
I'm confused :? I've seen Nexus...... hmmmmm they might have been Alfine, triggershifters.
Is there a Nexus gripshifter?
My Ergons on the Moulton were shorter in length for gripshift compatibi
Yeah, the Ergon site seems to be out of date - the UK distributor shows this version.


I laughed when i read the site claims that, "backwards-swept bars…cause uncomfortable wrist kink, potentially causing discomfort"

These backwards swept bars, JJ bars and On-One Mary bars, have been the most comfortable bars I have ever used off road. They stopped the wrist pain that I use to suffer and allowed me to discard my barends. The shape, for me, is comfortable whilst cruising in the saddle and out of it whilst swinging off the bars climbing steep pinches.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:59 pm

Wingnut wrote:my issue is I'm using a 135mm stem and a Brooks B17 (short rails) shoved back as far as it can go already...I think I would be a bit too squashed up with the Jones bars...but they look so cool! :(

Hi Wingnut,
Wow, thats a long stem.
Have you thought about a setback seatpost?

I've gone for "one" of the shorter available stems (Thomson X4 50mm).
One of the big attractions of the Jones bar to me is shortening the cockpit as I'm not a fan of a forward leaning position, which it sounds like you prefer - very aero by the description compared to my riding position.
I'm sure I'll have a forward lean still, but with my straight seatpost and shortstem/Jones combo, I've done all I can
within reason to shorten things up.
The effective top frame tube is miles longer than anything I've ridden in years.
I probably should have gotten the next size down in frame (18) but I prefer to own/ride a bike without a super long protruding seatpost. Its just an aesthetic thing which is important to me.

I was surprised to see though just how much seatpost is "buried" in the frame when I adjusted it to replicate my Moulton bikes seat level. The photo on the previous page is not an indication of final height as I suspect I'll be down around the Th of Thomson sticker for the final fit.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed May 01, 2013 12:01 am

singlespeedscott wrote:
These backwards swept bars, JJ bars and On-One Mary bars, have been the most comfortable bars I have ever used off road. They stopped the wrist pain that I use to suffer and allowed me to discard my barends. The shape, for me, is comfortable whilst cruising in the saddle and out of it whilst swinging off the bars climbing steep pinches.


That good to hear singlespeedscott, where did you choose to source yours? :)
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed May 01, 2013 12:11 am

The Mary bars I got directly from On-One in the UK. The JJ bars were ones mounted to a mates bike that I tried a few times. I just couldn't justify the cost of the JJ bars, plus I rarely used the forward extensions. That's why I got the Mary bars in the end.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed May 01, 2013 12:16 am

singlespeedscott wrote:The Mary bars I got directly from On-One in the UK. The JJ bars were ones mounted to a mates bike that I tried a few times. I just couldn't justify the cost of the JJ bars, plus I rarely used the forward extensions. That's why I got the Mary bars in the end.

I can understand that. Their a chunk of change those JJ bars.
For myself and my bad back, if they relieve some "stoop" I'll justify it somehow. Being currently single means theres no "minister of finance" I need to justify it too which makes it easier.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Wed May 01, 2013 9:43 am

rifraf wrote:
RonK wrote:I still think it may be possible that the RK mount and extender would be long enough to clear the front bar, and by fitting the extender upside-down (I have done this previously) can get the mount a little lower.
I've emailed Jones for the cross bar to loop bar dimension to see if it will go.

BTW, Ergon has released a Rohloff/Nexus version the new GC1 grip for swept-back bars. Might be a good match for the H bar.

Ah well there looks like a couple of possible options anyway.
Please give us an update after hearing from J Jones as I'd like to know more.

Jeff replied overnight with the dimension and links to various posts on his blog, showing his bike with a bar bag. But they are all of the Relevate Designs bags which are not really where we are at.

So, the H bar is 112mm centre to centre from the cross bar to the loop bar. With this information I got out my tape measure before work this morning and checked the length of the Rixon Kaul bracket and extender, which measures 110mm from the centre of the clamps to the face where the bag mounts.

With the H bar mounted at the recommended 15-20 degree angle, and with the extender upside-down, I think the Ortlieb bag could be used. It may also be necessary to tilt the bracket down slightly, but this is a good thing anyway as it stops the map case from fluttering. The release button will be under the loop bar but should still be accessible.

Given the downward angle I'm not sure that the Ergon grips would be a good choice for this bar. Jones recommendation or similar may be the best choice.

So, are you game to put up $400 and find out? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed May 01, 2013 12:45 pm

RonK wrote:Jeff replied overnight with the dimension and links to various posts on his blog, showing his bike with a bar bag. But they are all of the Relevate Designs bags which are not really where we are at.


I've been very impressed with the speed of communication coming out of the Jones camp.

RonK wrote:So, the H bar is 112mm centre to centre from the cross bar to the loop bar. With this information I got out my tape measure before work this morning and checked the length of the Rixon Kaul bracket and extender, which measures 110mm from the centre of the clamps to the face where the bag mounts.


Thank you

RonK wrote:With the H bar mounted at the recommended 15-20 degree angle, and with the extender upside-down, I think the Ortlieb bag could be used. It may also be necessary to tilt the bracket down slightly, but this is a good thing anyway as it stops the map case from fluttering. The release button will be under the loop bar but should still be accessible.


I'll have to explore that option but to save time I'll probably also order the SJS extender adapter as well.
Auspost is just killing me.
I've an order from Charliethebikemonger and SJS which hit Aussie shores last Friday and theres so far nothing.

RonK wrote:Given the downward angle I'm not sure that the Ergon grips would be a good choice for this bar. Jones recommendation or similar may be the best choice.

Ok I'll stick with the Jones ones.

RonK wrote:So, are you game to put up $400 and find out? :lol: :lol: :lol:

It appears everyone is out of stock. I'll get an email when they have some.
It would have been easy to make the impulse buy last night but it will depend a lot on my mood on the day.
If theres too many weeks before restocking I'm likely to think again. :roll:
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Wingnut » Wed May 01, 2013 10:45 pm

rifraf wrote:
Wingnut wrote:my issue is I'm using a 135mm stem and a Brooks B17 (short rails) shoved back as far as it can go already...I think I would be a bit too squashed up with the Jones bars...but they look so cool! :(

Hi Wingnut,
Wow, thats a long stem.
Have you thought about a setback seatpost?


Same sized stem I've always used from my mtb days...other than my Surly Troll I only ride my road bikes which also use 130mm stems too. If I continue to use the Brooks B17 Special I can't go to a shorter stem as the Brooks doesn't have enough fore & aft adjustment in it compared to modern saddles, even with my current Thomson setback post...

But I'm seriously considering getting a Jones Loop bar...and it will have to be a new stem as well (31.8) which is a PIA...
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