29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby singlespeedscott » Sat May 18, 2013 6:35 pm

It's looking good.

Why haven't you finished off the drivetrain and brakes before fitting your racks etc? I would be wanting to sort that first stuff before putting all the racks in the way. They'll make it difficult to fettle with the brakes and shifters.
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by BNA » Sat May 18, 2013 6:55 pm

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sat May 18, 2013 6:55 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:It's looking good.


Thank you.

singlespeedscott wrote:Why haven't you finished off the drivetrain and brakes before fitting your racks etc? I would be wanting to sort that first stuff before putting all the racks in the way. They'll make it difficult to fettle with the brakes and shifters.


I had some responsibilities around the house to attend to so today couldn't get to town to grab a torx kit.
Baalzamon was kind enough to point this one out:
http://dicksmith.com.au/product/T6337/3 ... ith-handle
and I've a lift into Joondalup tomorrow which will save me around 3 hours by public transport.
I need this to remove the Oem2 plate to fit the rear disk.

Ronks question about how/if the barbag adapter would affect the Tubus rack fitment had me worried and I decided to have a mock up. Actually the placement of the front quick release caused a rack refit due to me being initially unable to open/close the QR.

I was unable to find the time to fit the chain due to having to keep an eye on tonights cooking meal.
Recently I lost track of time and a households feed of prawns and barramundi was destroyed which didnt make me flavor of the month. :shock:

I do think your right in that the brakes will be easier to fit without the racks but also I'd like to see cable routing possibilities with both the racks and barbag in place (tomorrows likely job).
Also not having had disk brakes before, I'm kinda procrastinating and leaving them till last :lol: :lol:

Going over fitment was also good in that I spotted a prior mistake and was able to rectify it.
I'd set up the seatpost incorrectly by failing to read the instructions carefully enough. The top plate of the post
has some writing stamped on it as a guide and the writing needs to face the front of the bike. The saddle adjustment is much easier now. It still needs to come down at the nose a tad. I really like that my post has degree markings on it to make this set up easier due to being able to see where it was before you adjust it rather than trying to rely on "by eye". I have some "minor" visual impairment due to a head injury and struggle with angles that are obvious to others. :|
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Sat May 18, 2013 7:22 pm

Looks like there will be plenty of room under the bag for your dynamo light too.

Bumblebee colour scheme works well.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sat May 18, 2013 7:36 pm

RonK wrote:Looks like there will be plenty of room under the bag for your dynamo light too.

I've yet to even consider the ramifications of any fitment. Yes I'll have to start considering where my Edelux and E-werk can tidily go.

RonK wrote:Bumblebee colour scheme works well.

Funny you should mention it as the lowered level of my bottle of shiraz has me a nice buzzzz going. :wink:
I like cooking with wine..... sometimes I even put a little in the food :lol: :lol:
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Fri May 24, 2013 7:09 pm

Had some motivation today and spent some time in the shed.
I got the chain fitted to the Ogre, as well the brakes and their cables.
I'll need to do more reading and fine tune the adjustment but its nice to be able to stop.
I grabbed a spanner and manually turned the hub to low gear and had a meander around and around our small back section.
Happy to report that the Ogre seems very stable going slow, as opposed to the Moulton, and offers a feeling of great control. It was a pleasant reward to a few hours of pottering with the black beast. I couldnt get the hub change mechanism in the black box apart due to it having been overtightened from the factory and my small torx set not being up to the job.
It'll be another trip to town to get sorted unfortunately. Bars not torqued up enough and slipping in the stem is another job but all in all a productive day. Still got the smile on my dial from the romp around the section.
I'm fine with the frame size. Its verging on the large but I think its the big wheels that were intimidating me after so many years on the 20" Moulton hoops. Its a very different ride. :D
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Sat May 25, 2013 10:19 pm

I reckon these Humpert Hornbar Vario Handlebars from Practical Cycles may be a better choice of handlebar.

The ends are removable so a Rohloff shifter can easily be fitted. I'd probably opt for the 510mm wide version - 580mm seems ridiculously wide.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sat May 25, 2013 11:29 pm

Looking good Aidan glad you found some build time also a very neat job as well. I know when I built up my touring rid I went one step further and replaced every nut,bolt,washer and screw on the entire ride including trailer with high tensile stainless steel. No more rusty fixtures so food for thought I found it to be well worth the cost and effort. There is only a few bolts that remain factory because of the weird shape or thread. Being your bike Aidan it would be an extremely low cost involved maybe 20-30 clams.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun May 26, 2013 1:13 am

}SkOrPn--7 wrote:Looking good Aidan glad you found some build time also a very neat job as well. I know when I built up my touring rid I went one step further and replaced every nut,bolt,washer and screw on the entire ride including trailer with high tensile stainless steel. No more rusty fixtures so food for thought I found it to be well worth the cost and effort. There is only a few bolts that remain factory because of the weird shape or thread. Being your bike Aidan it would be an extremely low cost involved maybe 20-30 clams.

Ricky


An excellent idea Ricky. :idea:
I'll be sure to implement it although I'll likely claim it my own :wink: :lol:
Luckily enough I had some stainless bolt and washers so all the rack bolts/nuts, seatpost collar, bottle cages are already done. There were extra bolt holes on the forks for alternative racks/cages which I've also plugged with stainless allen key head bolts.
I'll make a point of doing the handlebar adapter (Thorn) and stem ASAP and see if I can spot any opportunities for any others.
Torx headed bolts holding the front rotor spring to mind as WestcoastPete mentioned them as a rust trap.
Chainring bolts are already alloy from memory as are the seat adjusters on the post.
Thanks for the tip. Handy as Perths promising to be wet winter.
Hows your trip going and where are you now? Hope your trundling with a camera and being sure to store
some memories. :D
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun May 26, 2013 1:30 am

RonK wrote:I reckon these Humpert Hornbar Vario Handlebars from Practical Cycles may be a better choice of handlebar.

The ends are removable so a Rohloff shifter can easily be fitted. I'd probably opt for the 510mm wide version - 580mm seems ridiculously wide.


I'll bear them in mind RonK, thank you for the suggestion.
Humpert (Ergotec) make many types of handlebars and more than a couple of theirs have caught my eye.
Quite a few are available via Practical Cycles.
These were their first ones that I spotted:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Humpert-Spac ... 0894328442
and these that fold away for transport or storage:
http://www.humpert.com/en/bikeparts/mar ... 518&bild=3
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sun May 26, 2013 6:43 pm

rifraf wrote:
}SkOrPn--7 wrote:Looking good Aidan glad you found some build time also a very neat job as well. I know when I built up my touring rid I went one step further and replaced every nut,bolt,washer and screw on the entire ride including trailer with high tensile stainless steel. No more rusty fixtures so food for thought I found it to be well worth the cost and effort. There is only a few bolts that remain factory because of the weird shape or thread. Being your bike Aidan it would be an extremely low cost involved maybe 20-30 clams.

Ricky


An excellent idea Ricky. :idea:
I'll be sure to implement it although I'll likely claim it my own :wink: :lol:
Luckily enough I had some stainless bolt and washers so all the rack bolts/nuts, seatpost collar, bottle cages are already done. There were extra bolt holes on the forks for alternative racks/cages which I've also plugged with stainless allen key head bolts.
I'll make a point of doing the handlebar adapter (Thorn) and stem ASAP and see if I can spot any opportunities for any others.
Torx headed bolts holding the front rotor spring to mind as WestcoastPete mentioned them as a rust trap.
Chainring bolts are already alloy from memory as are the seat adjusters on the post.
Thanks for the tip. Handy as Perths promising to be wet winter.
Hows your trip going and where are you now? Hope your trundling with a camera and being sure to store
some memories. :D


Just make sure you either add a spot of oil to stainless threads or buy a tube of copper anti seize paste. I used the copper paste I think it's more effective plus it's the correct product for the job. Glad you have many of your parts all ready in stainless. Not only that but you can then make you whole bike HEX key getting rid of some of the annoying Phillips head and Flat tip screws you come across. Your trailer is already stainless fitted on every part I just made mention on my trailer because I have added to it as you know so I just made sure that what I did on that was also stainless. To get cheaper stainless go to a supplier of bolts and the likes because places like Bunnings don't carry the range or thread pitch you would want. Don't forget to replace the tiny bolts on the derailleur hanger....

Going good Aidan I'm in Robe tonight just about to have dinner and yes the camera gets a few shots taken every now and then I'm not much of a snapper.

Cheers mate looking forward to seeing more of the build.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby Baalzamon » Sun May 26, 2013 8:22 pm

Well Aidan's bike is finished pretty much now, he has full shifting capability. Brakes need tweaking/bedding in
Checked spoke tension was a bit low for Sapim cx-rays with Rohloff demanding 900N and they were only tensioned to about 760N
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Wed May 29, 2013 10:46 pm

Front rack seems very high there Aidan. The front eye on is a long way up the leg. Can't you mount it lower down on the mudguard mounting eye. There is a tab on the rack for the mudguard stays.

Like this:

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Thu May 30, 2013 12:02 am

Hi Ron,
have to request you resize your pic as the front wheel you wish to show is missing from my screen and the entire page is spread out. :shock:
Though I cant see your forks/Nova, I can say "I dont think so" as if you look at the pic of my forks/rack, you can see three stainless steel allen key head bolts which are on a rearward angle and of no earthly use except for bidons and "anything cages" at that. :o

There is what "I think" is a mudguard stay mount just behind the skewer/QR, but if I used that I think it would put the top horizontal bar of the Nova on quite a steep downward angle. :shock:
Please tell me more.

Not sure if it helps, :oops: being under the impression you might use Apple software which I'm unfamiliar, but windows has a painless "resize" adjustment in Picture Manager, where I click "Picture" and then "Resize" and a menu appears magically on the right of the screen.
I click "Predefined Width x Height" and then click "Web Large 640 x 480" , then "OK", "Close" and "Save".

Then off to Photobucket they go minus some clarity due to the crappy compression method Windows XP uses. :lol:

Took the Ogre for its first run today.
Just around 14kms of undulating road between Yanchep and Two Rocks.
Very different from the Moulton - Very different.
I found the Rohloff gear change felt slow and I struggle to imagine people racing with one.
The big wheels of the Ogre seem ponderous and very slow by comparison to the nippy 406's of the Moulton.
I'm sure the huge rubber of the 2.35 Big Apples accentuated this perception.
Those were my first impressions but I dont feel they are negative but merely different and will take some
getting used to.
Some have said the Ogres ride is harsh whilst I thought it remarkably compliant, perhaps again due to the big rubber.
Slow to get up to speed, but seems fine once up there.
Interesting spread of gears which seems very unnatural after using a cassette.
My first impressions is that there is not enough of a jump in between gears as the need to change seems quite quick.
I'll really need to put on the Edge 800 to get an idea of cadence which I think will tell me much more than the riding feedback I'm getting from the bike as I'm sort of just overwhelmed by the differences.
I really enjoy the different handlebar positions to move my hands too.
I felt the need to change often which may mean many different things.
Having not been on a bike for a while I'm feeling quite destroyed physically so will sleep well tonight.
Those are just impressions and I'm not feeling particularly negative about anything (which is good) and just
really pleased that the build is nearly done as all the endless waiting and ordering drives me mad (der).
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Thu May 30, 2013 6:53 am

rifraf wrote:There is what "I think" is a mudguard stay mount just behind the skewer/QR, but if I used that I think it would put the top horizontal bar of the Nova on quite a steep downward angle. :shock:
Please tell me more.


Ok, I've posted a link to the full size picture, so you can see how mine is mounted, but using the top screw hole on the Nova the angle of the top tube is just about right. I like it sloping down slightly toward the rear. The Ogre may have the top eyelet further up the fork leg though.

rifraf wrote:I found the Rohloff gear change felt slow and I struggle to imagine people racing with one.

Yes, that is what I thought too - and 8 to 7 is the worst.
rifraf wrote:The big wheels of the Ogre seem ponderous and very slow by comparison to the nippy 406's of the Moulton.
I'm sure the huge rubber of the 2.35 Big Apples accentuated this perception.

Even my 26" wheels feel like that with the big rubber mounted. Much better with skinny tyres.
rifraf wrote:Interesting spread of gears which seems very unnatural after using a cassette.

I have not been able to get used to this. I always thought a cassette would be better if the gears were evenly spread, but now I realise they have it just right.
rifraf wrote:My first impressions is that there is not enough of a jump in between gears as the need to change seems quite quick.
I felt the need to change often which may mean many different things.

Yes, but I think it is the other way around - the gears are a little too far apart and that is why you have to keep changing. I really like close ratios to be able to maintain a constant cadence which doesn't load up my knees, so I find this uncomfortable.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Thu May 30, 2013 1:39 pm

Thanks Ron,
so much better being able to enjoy the view of your magnificent Van Nicholas in its entirety rather than with its front
chopped off.

I might have a toy at some stage with the rack and see what it looks like with the rack attached to the lowest lug intended for
the fender.
I'll post a pic, but I think I'll not like what I suspect to be a harsh downward, forwards angle of the top rail of the Nova.

I acknowledge that the skinnier tyres are lighter, easier to pedal and faster accelerating as well as faster overall which many would think in hindsight would be a complete and no brainer reason for having them.
I could end up reaching that conclusion but to be honest I really enjoy both the ride (very soft) and aesthetic of the big hoops.
Whether or not I feel that way at the end of a long days ride, if my mileage has badly suffered and I'm over tired, remains to be
seen and is not yet a forgone conclusion.
I'm doing the experiment in the face of logic to see if I can get a clearer picture between the balance of comfort and mileage.

My next order from Ze Germans will include three Schwalbe Marathon Supremes of 28-2.00 variety or be they 50-622 (I forget).
As well a mudguard mount for the rear of the Cosmo:
https://www.bike24.net/1.php?content=8; ... 45||||||||
I'm looking at one of these to support a stainless fender (Gilles Berthoud) which I'm considering adding a hinge just south of where
the above support would attach.
This would be to help with rear wheel removal, necessitating just the removal of the rear stay bolts and lifting upwards (is my thoughts though yet to be put to paper/drawing).

Anyway with regards to the Rohloff, I've a lot of miles to do, like yourself have done, before I can come to any definitive conclusions. I really like the idea of no derailleurs to think about and the theory of less maintenance.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:59 am

RonK wrote:Front rack seems very high there Aidan. The front eye on is a long way up the leg. Can't you mount it lower down on the mudguard mounting eye. There is a tab on the rack for the mudguard stays.


I had a crack at moving the Nova downward today Ron but it wouldnt fly.
It might with bigger spacers than supplied.
Needless to say I didnt have anything suitable.
The issue was the bottom of the fork was fat and tapered in very sharply at the dropouts, which is where
the mounting eye is.
Possibly if I had mudguard stays and the two supplied spacers it would be enough but I dont yet have my
mudguards and I'd be forever paranoid about the strength of that bottom bolt (stainless though it is).
I may choose to return to this once I get my fenders but will think carefully about ground clearance of
my panniers on a bike I've chosen for its off road ability.
I dont want to adversely affect that ability which is what I've changed my Moulton for. :?
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:23 am

rifraf wrote:
RonK wrote:Front rack seems very high there Aidan. The front eye on is a long way up the leg. Can't you mount it lower down on the mudguard mounting eye. There is a tab on the rack for the mudguard stays.


I had a crack at moving the Nova downward today Ron but it wouldnt fly.
It might with bigger spacers than supplied.
Needless to say I didnt have anything suitable.
The issue was the bottom of the fork was fat and tapered in very sharply at the dropouts, which is where
the mounting eye is.
Possibly if I had mudguard stays and the two supplied spacers it would be enough but I dont yet have my
mudguards and I'd be forever paranoid about the strength of that bottom bolt (stainless though it is).
I may choose to return to this once I get my fenders but will think carefully about ground clearance of
my panniers on a bike I've chosen for its off road ability.
I dont want to adversely affect that ability which is what I've changed my Moulton for. :?

Well, Tubus front racks are known as lowriders, but if you want to ride single track then a little more ground clearance is probably a good thing anyway.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:21 pm

RonK wrote:Well, Tubus front racks are known as lowriders, but if you want to ride single track then a little more ground clearance is probably a good thing anyway.


Nothing would have given me greater pleasure than dropping that front loop down closer to the tyre.
I'm tempted to take it to an engineering shop although I've little confidence in WA competence.
A bit of nip and tuck (weld) would go a long way towards tidying it up.
I had yet another crack at exploring ways of lowering the Nova but was left with either the skewer becoming inoperable or unacceptable downward angles of the top bar of the rack.
I should have spent that time going for a ride as it was a nice day.
Too nice to be spent worrying about function over form.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:03 pm

After getting some BBB XL Fuel-tanks from charliethebikemonger.com
http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/bbb ... -560-p.asp
I took advice on bottles and grabbed some Nalgene 48 oz or 1.5 liter Silo Tritan Wide Mouth bottles like these ones:
http://www.lifeviewoutdoors.com/hiking- ... ottle.html

I had to bend the Fuel-tanks to get a snug fit as they were very sloppy beforehand, and it was doubtful whether they would successfully retain the Nalgene bottles. The top retaining clamp had to be removed.

I think the mouth on these is a match for the MSR Miniworks water filter I intend to buy which will make them
even more useful a purchase.

At this time its uncertain whether or not my ordered mudguards will work with the lowermost cage/bottle combo.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:02 pm

rifraf wrote:Update on Gilles Berthoud fenders.
On Sunday I tried to order some fenders as per above post.
Its just about 1am here in Perth so around 3am Sydney time and I've just checked my balance.
Surprise, surprise my order has been charged to my account (nothing there this arvo).
Still no promised email though. Neither the confirmation (normally automatic response) nor an answer to my email inquiry as to the standing of my order and how to move forward on my desire to purchase said fenders.
I suppose there might be some language barrier issues with regards to my email but not to get
a response confirming payment made is a surprise.


I tried ringing them tonight via the two different numbers mentioned on the site.
I got answerphone messages on both in French which I dont speak (should have more attention in school I guess)
I've sent them a message via a contact form on the site.



Update (Wednesday) Checked my email this morning to find a response to my contact form.

"Helo
do not worry the parcel has been shipped yesterday all is OK
regards
GB"

Which would have been a little more welcomed with a tracking number but cest la vie. :roll:
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:12 pm

Spotted a link to a Surly LHT with a Nitto rack and stainless mudguards which seem made for each other:
http://s18.photobucket.com/user/e_merli ... 7.jpg.html
I found it via a link with some instructions for Berthoud fenders
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... d48ndOS9t4

I'll be investing in a Click-Stand to keep the Ogre upright due to there being no provision for a stand on the frame.
I think the one referred to in other threads is here:
http://www.click-stand.com/Measuring_fo ... Stand.html
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:01 pm

Glad you chose the black frame surly Aidan I'm not so keen on that green plus I think with hardware and equipment the black goes better with what's available. Good choice me thinks....
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:22 pm

}SkOrPn--7 wrote:Glad you chose the black frame surly Aidan I'm not so keen on that green plus I think with hardware and equipment the black goes better with what's available. Good choice me thinks....

Hi Ricky,
as I can only stable one bike due to my accommodation, it had to be a bike for all occasions and cater to some of my aesthetic sensibilities (or perhaps lack there of.... beauty being in the eye of the beholder) at the same time.
I no longer drive so need something to cater to tours as well as commuting and milk runs to the corner store.
I like the old school look of black and polished alloy/stainless as it is a classic look reminiscent (to me) of the era of when I first started looking and wanting a bike as a boy but couldn't afford one, let alone the ones I liked the look of (think Carlton Competition in black with gold decals/stripping and chrome on the bottom of the seat/chain stays and fork bottoms) show pony that they might have been. I used to walk past the bike shop daily and dawdle in the window dreaming...........
Due to a lack of space my host wanted only one bike, therefore the Moulton gone, but I think I can get away with putting it into a suitcase in a dismantled state for future refurbishment.
I've not the heart to part with it yet.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:38 pm

Yeah the old black and chrome never grows old...... Now with no car this build almost complete you will have a true grocery wagon with all the panniers mounted if need be when you do the shopping run.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:28 pm

rifraf wrote:I tried ringing them tonight via the two different numbers mentioned on the site.
I got answerphone messages on both in French which I dont speak (should have more attention in school I guess)
I've sent them a message via a contact form on the site.



Update (Wednesday) Checked my email this morning to find a response to my contact form.

"Helo
do not worry the parcel has been shipped yesterday all is OK
regards
GB"

Which would have been a little more welcomed with a tracking number but cest la vie. :roll:


Update Monday.
Well Mr Berthoud pulls finger it seems and it appears refuses to let Pommie Royal Mail have one over France.
Tis Monday and a week after ordering my fenders and here they are.
Unlike a certain English firm who wont be mentioned with mudguards in the same sentence forthwith, they are even the correct size.
Ahh well, lesson learnt.
Deal with the manufacturer when at all possible.
You want the organ grinder and not the monkeys.
Not speaking French my thank you email will be a very short "Merci".
Anyway for anyone following in my tyre-prints and considering anything from Gilles Berthoud, the shipping time will be the least of your concerns if my experience is anything to go by. Very speedy delivery. :D
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
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rifraf
 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

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