What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby jemo27 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:39 am

I have always just used a paper map when touring in Australia but I found when touring in Europe that in built up areas I was using google maps on my iPad more.

I have heard of people using GPS units to navigate, just interested in what people us to navigate while touring
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by BNA » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:28 am

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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby Cheesewheel » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:28 am

jemo27 wrote:I have always just used a paper map when touring in Australia but I found when touring in Europe that in built up areas I was using google maps on my iPad more.

I have heard of people using GPS units to navigate, just interested in what people us to navigate while touring

I use the sun and observe which side of the trees moss is growing on

(I also use a garmin edge 800)
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby RonK » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:30 am

I prefer a paper map - once out on the highway I think I'm better orientated reading a map than slavishly following satnav prompts.

A smartphone suffices to pinpoint my location if I'm uncertain, and to find the way through towns and cities. I can understand that you would need to do this more often in much more settled European countries.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby nezumi » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:39 am

I use my watch face and the sun. Doesn't work so well at night though.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:06 pm

This spring/summer in Italy the Garmin eTrex 30 with Europe City Navigator maps was invaluable. A paper map of the whole of Siciily, Sardinia or Tuscany at 1:200,000 was like a bedspread to read, and while it was great for most roads in rural areas, the detail was inadequate anywhere we rode into or out of towns. Quick and simple to zoom in or out with the Garmin to find exactly where we were and which road(s) to follow to get to where we wanted to be. It's right there on the handlebars and really easy to use
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby Warin » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:54 am

I have several systems

Sun
Visible? Get out and ride.
Rain? Wind?
Time to do the washing? :? Pub?

------------
Paper Map
For planing or checking with locals a paper map is great.

Vector Geo referenced Map
For immediate use on the road the 'SatNav' is best (I'll call a GPS with its own map a 'SatNav' to suit the current salesmen words), you are located in the center of the map so you don't have to find your position on the map, you can zoom in/out to get more detail or see more of the country side. If you have a Garmin 'SatNav' you can get free maps that are fairly good for most of the globe, and they can be had bicycle specific. http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/ These maps can also be used on a computer to have a nice large screen and set up a route before you leave as an additional navigation aid - puts another coloured line on your 'SatNav'. 'SatNav's can have several screens, I use the map one, the navigation prompts appear on the screen (e.g. turn left 100m) some times I do that, sometimes I don't. If I don't the SatNav' just recirculates the route.
The 'SatNav' can also generate a route for you on your 'SatNav' using the map you have on it. On some 'SatNav' you can select -shortest distance or fastest route (uses the speed settings of the roads on the map), no U turns, avoid toll roads, preference settings between main roads to back streets and probably a few others. This is very handy as a first guess as to a route you can use. I like the 'shortest route, use backroads. Takes me down some interesting alleys! There is no 'avoid uphills' .. :cry: (yet :idea: ).
There are some 'smart phone apps' that do something similar to 'SatNav's .. but they tend to be not as good as a true 'SatNav', as in battery life, speed and GPS sensitivity .

Raster Geo referenced Map
Your going to ask 'what is the difference between Vector and Raster'? Raster is what you get in a photo, each dot is described, a vector is a line diagram - the start point and end points of a line are described. Old paper maps can be photographed and then referenced to latitude+longitude (thus geo referenced) by a program on a computer and then use them to use them to generate/view routes/tracks that go to or come from a GPS/'SatNav'. (I use Oziexplorer). Unlike vector maps you cannot zoom in/out too far on these maps .. they don't have layers like vector maps do. Most of my paper maps have been photographed and geo referenced so I can use them on my computer, additionally there is a fair number of maps available on the internet for down load.. I've over 12Gb so far for Australia.
Similar to the Vector maps - these can be placed on to a 'smart phone' and used with an 'app' to give you similar features to the 'SatNav' .. but without zooming changes and no automatically generated 'turn by turn navigation'.

=======================
What about a simple GPS?
Well that gives you your location.. but noting else. So you'll need a paper map that has some latitude/longitude marks on it so you can use the GPS locational info to find your location on the paper map. With more complexity the GPS will tell you more .. distance and angle to nearest town for instance. I think you should go the whole hog and get the 'SatNav' version.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby clackers » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:31 pm

I've got an eTrex 20 for when I don't think there'll be data coverage on my phone, or I'm off road.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby Aushiker » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:09 pm

Paper maps, e.g., Munda Biddi Trail maps, road maps and my Garmin Edge 810 or Garmin Oregon 600 with OpenStreetCycle maps. However I tend to use the paper maps riding along and the GPS if I need to locate myself. I have the maps in a map case on the lid of my Ortlieb handlebar bag.

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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby rama » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:08 pm

nezumi wrote:I use my watch face and the sun. Doesn't work so well at night though.


There's a neat trick to navigate utilising the moon, provided the moon is visible from your position. In the Northern hemisphere, the line which can be drawn towards the Earth from the two tips of the sun-lit face of the moon at the edge of its disk, points to the South. I suppose the opposite holds for the Southern hemisphere...
Mind you, the south/north is not where that line from the moon hits the earth's horizon from your point of view, but is lower than the horizon by the latitude of your position. Thisw makes no difference when the moon is high in the sky, as the line crosses the horizon at roughly the same azimouth as the true south/north.
The whole thing rests on the fact that the moon actually turns from our point of view while crossing our sky, essentially pivoting around the earth's axis of rotation.

If you have a better understanding of the moon's phases, you can also infer the approximate time of the night!

For the daytime, a small stick on the ground and the sun's shadow can reveal direction and time of day in a matter of a few minutes.

A GPS with an electronic compass is invaluable for any tourer, but some practical knowledge can work faster, providing a backup to your electronic gadgets and making your paper maps more meaningful b recognising landmarks. eg churches, graveyards, solar panels are always built along certain azimuth readings
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby RonK » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:15 pm

rama wrote:I suppose the opposite holds for the Southern hemisphere...

Ever heard of the Southern Cross, and the Pointers? No?
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby rama » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:34 pm

Indeed I have heard of them.
In the northern hemisphere we also have the Polaris, or north star almost smack on the northern pole.
But on may occassions clouds obscur the stars, while the moon is still visible.
It is good to have alternatives.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby Baalzamon » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:40 pm

My next intended tour will be paper maps I have to admit with secondary my garmin edge 810. Reason. Muddi Biddi.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby rifraf » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:01 pm

Baalzamon wrote:My next intended tour will be paper maps I have to admit with secondary my garmin edge 810. Reason. Muddi Biddi.

It appears (to me) an expensive set if your not riding it regularly.
I'm sure its a must have for the trip but I had to admit to rolling my eyes at the cost.
9 maps at $11 each and one at $4.95 make for a bit of an investment, especially if your considering it as a once off (online price).

I went in and priced them whilst looking at a large scale map book which I think covered all of Australia and the map book came in cheaper.

I want the map book and one of those Camps books but still playing catch up on my new phone and laptop.

I think it was Camping World I did my pricing, although I know Paddy Pallin in Perth central also do the Mudda Biddi Trail maps and guide book.
I think I mentioned it in another thread that I've had excellent service in both the Rockingham Camping World and the Paddy Pallin shop in Perth City 8)
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby il padrone » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:16 am

Baalzamon wrote:My next intended tour will be paper maps I have to admit with secondary my garmin edge 810. Reason. Muddi Biddi.

Garmin etrex 30 GPS, plus Munda Biddi route :idea:
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby RonK » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:35 am

il padrone wrote:
Baalzamon wrote:My next intended tour will be paper maps I have to admit with secondary my garmin edge 810. Reason. Muddi Biddi.

Garmin etrex 30 GPS, plus Munda Biddi route :idea:

Your GPS may not work well in the Karri forest.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby il padrone » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:23 am

RonK wrote:Your GPS may not work well in the Karri forest.

Really? Why not?

My GPS has never been foxed by any forest riding here in the forests of Victoria. :?
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby RonK » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:09 am

il padrone wrote:
RonK wrote:Your GPS may not work well in the Karri forest.

Really? Why not?

My GPS has never been foxed by any forest riding here in the forests of Victoria. :?

I don't know about the Victorian forests, but the high and density of the Karri forest is quite amazing. If there is any place where the GPS signal is interrupted by tree cover this would be it.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby il padrone » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:01 pm

I've been to some of the Karri forests, 30 years ago down around Pemberton, the Shannon, and Denmark. My impression at the time was that they were shorter and less dense than the mountain ash forests back here. My GPS works fine in most forest cover so far, I've never had it lose satellite reception on me. Just been using it in high country mountain gum and red box forests around the Cobberas, Gelantipy, and Nowa Nowa the past few days, and it has been used in quite deep forests in the Otways and South Gippsland among other places.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:00 pm

RonK wrote:
il padrone wrote:
RonK wrote:Your GPS may not work well in the Karri forest.

Really? Why not?

My GPS has never been foxed by any forest riding here in the forests of Victoria. :?

I don't know about the Victorian forests, but the high and density of the Karri forest is quite amazing. If there is any place where the GPS signal is interrupted by tree cover this would be it.


Didn't have an issue with my Garmin Edge 705 when I did the BV Great Escapade in 2008. I thought maybe it would have been interrupted but it wasn't.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby lcfc » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:20 am

How detailed at the worlwide Base Maps on the eTrex? I'm heading to Myanmar in April and I'm looking at Navigation options at the moment. Considering the 810 with some OpenStreetMaps but they're not the most detailed.
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Re: What equipment to you use to Navigate with?

Postby Warin » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:22 am

lcfc wrote:How detailed at the worlwide Base Maps on the eTrex? I'm heading to Myanmar in April and I'm looking at Navigation options at the moment. Considering the 810 with some OpenStreetMaps but they're not the most detailed.


Usually the OSM would be much more detailed than the Garmin World Map. I've the older version of Garmins World Map - it has the major roads on it .. but not accurately .. the newer version is better but it is not something you could use in a city, nor is it something you could use for minor roads. For me it is a general planning thing for long distance trips. You need more detail for the actual trip. I'd not use it for a bicycle trip - even a long one.

However Burma? Don't know ... I'd not think many would be working on OSM in Burma.. you could do it yourself - add the data to OSM to the areas your interested in using there tools it is fairly easy. You'd get the roads that can be seen using satellite imagery (Bing). Note that OSM don't want you adding data from copyright sources! If you use the OSM tools they offer you you will be using 'approved' data sources.
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