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Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:43 pm
by Uncle Just
^When too many spacers are barely enough.

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:03 pm
by Leaf T

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:17 pm
by rustguard
because some people like to be comfortable when they go on long rides. I just wish; how I wish my surly forks were the same.

Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:31 pm
by RonK

Those pics are from the Vivente web site. The bike is straight out of the box so the steerer is uncut.
And since it's a steel steerer there is no need to cut it short anyway.
All my tourers have the maximum number of spacers allowed, because I like it like that.

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:25 pm
by Rodgerbiltit
All my tourers have the maximum number of spacers allowed, because I like it like that.

There's a "maximum" number?
What would that be? I'm about to "push things out(or up)" on a bike that I'm building...
I like to sit up and smell the roses too...
I'd love to know the limit, so that I don't exceed it?

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:51 pm
by RonK
Well, that is up to the fork manufacturer - a maximum number of spacers may or may not be specified.
If not, you would be pretty safe with 50mm for a carbon or alloy steerer. Steel - use as many as you prefer.

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:06 pm
by Leaf T
My Raven Tour is almost identical in geometry to a Santos Travel Master when we compared frames. It's a relatively upright position and i use a sprung saddle but although lots of spacers I don't have that lanky giraffe look. I've noticed a lot of Dutch and German touring bikes are like this too but the Thorn bikes on their site often look plain ugly. Perhaps Vivente would gain extra sales if they made the bikes look good in their promo material. They should because what I've seen of them out in the wild they look like excellent bikes.

My position would be similar to the third example down which Patria call the Dynamic position. We almost bought the Patria Terra frames but it was awkward with the shipping and communication because at the time the rep was flat out with Eurobike.
Image

http://www.patria.net/en/4-steps-to-you ... -position/

http://www.patria.net/en/bicycles/

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:32 pm
by RonK
Leaf T wrote:Perhaps Vivente would gain extra sales if they made the bikes look good in their promo material.

I suspect a high bar and upright position is exactly what many prospective buyers are looking for, and a slammed stem in their promo material would instead actually cost sales.

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:18 pm
by rustguard
RonK wrote:
Leaf T wrote: and a slammed stem in their promo material would instead actually cost sales.

Plus you can still chop it down to what you like. Much harder to weld on a new steerer.

Plus my legs are longer than average for my reach so the giraffe look gets me into a dynamic position only. I need a giraffe with a set of horns on his head LOL.

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:20 pm
by Stuntman
As a new Vivente (and touring bike) owner I like the idea of the spacers. We did a fit at the shop between rides around the block and spacers mean I could and can still try some different positions before settling on the one that works best for me. I'd say I have a "dynamic position" preference.

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:27 pm
by Leaf T
RonK wrote:
Leaf T wrote:Perhaps Vivente would gain extra sales if they made the bikes look good in their promo material.

I suspect a high bar and upright position is exactly what many prospective buyers are looking for, and a slammed stem in their promo material would instead actually cost sales.


Who said slammed stem? Anyway I like my sprung saddle and the riding position is good for touring and helps with climbs. I guess unlike some I don't like to use an umbrella when it rains :D

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:29 pm
by Espresso_
RonK wrote:I suspect a high bar and upright position is exactly what many prospective buyers are looking for, and a slammed stem in their promo material would instead actually cost sales.


I agree. And when one examines most touring bikes, it's obvious that aesthetics are generally not amongst the primary concerns of many buyers.

I'm no expert in frame geometry, but I'd suggest that altering the frame geometry to get a lower stack height could introduce other issues, like higher standover height for example.

E

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:36 pm
by Leaf T
I'm sure it's practical if that's what suits you. I'm just saying it looks ugly to me when they have a tower of spacers. Mine is not short either but I've never bothered to cut the fork tube which to many people looks ugly too. Thorn told me I should be buying the 56cm frame but I knew it would be too small. We bought the frame designed for drop bars as that is what we were used to but after trying the ergon grips with flat bars we decided to keep them.

Here's a pic of a lovely looking Dutch touring bike I found online. :wink: My fork tube is longer than this one.
Image
Image

And Mr and Mrs Leaf T's bikes. I've since changed the crankset, stem and bars on mine but height is about what it was in this pic.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/66639363@ ... hotostream

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:56 pm
by rifraf
The Thorns are looking good Leaf T

What is the bluish/purple 531 framed bike?

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:14 pm
by Leaf T
Thanks rifraf. It's a George Longstaff touring bike handmade in the UK. A lovely bike to ride and beautifully made. The Brits can really do paintwork when they want to. I'll get around to cleaning it up properly one day. Perfectly rideable now but I think it deserves the best.

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:31 pm
by RonK
Leaf T wrote:Here's a pic of a lovely looking Dutch touring bike I found online. :wink: My fork tube is longer than this one.

Yes, the English could take some lessons from the Dutch on how to design a flat bar touring bike. :wink:

Notice how the clever Dutch design uses appropriate geometry and a long head tube to achieve height parity twixt bar and saddle without resorting to a towering stack.

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:31 pm
by Leaf T
I did indeed. Although it does look a little "slammed". I'll look forward to seeing Vivente adopt this cleverness.

The Surly LHT also has the taller head tube which is typical for touring type bikes. As mentioned earlier, when I had the opportunity to compare (admittedly over several shared beers) the similarity between my Thorn RT and his steel Santos Travel Master the difference was miniscule.

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:59 pm
by RonK
Leaf T wrote:I did indeed. Although it does look a little "slammed". I'll look forward to seeing Vivente adopt this cleverness.

The Surly LHT also has the taller head tube which is typical for touring type bikes. As mentioned earlier, when I had the opportunity to compare (admittedly over several shared beers) the similarity between my Thorn RT and his steel Santos Travel Master the difference was miniscule.

English designed Sabbath requires a 55mm stack to achieve height parity with the saddle. Both English and Dutch bike have alloy steerer tubes and are at the maximum stack height permitted by the fork manufacturer.

Image

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:11 pm
by rifraf
About time we had another sampler of your tasty Sabbath RonK.
Have you dusted her off for a spin lately?

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:25 pm
by RonK
rifraf wrote:About time we had another sampler of your tasty Sabbath RonK.
Have you dusted her off for a spin lately?

The Sabbath is my number one bike - and is ridden at least twice per week. It's that other bike which is gathering dust - do you want it? :wink:

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:42 am
by rifraf
RonK wrote:
rifraf wrote:About time we had another sampler of your tasty Sabbath RonK.
Have you dusted her off for a spin lately?

The Sabbath is my number one bike - and is ridden at least twice per week. It's that other bike which is gathering dust - do you want it? :wink:

Alas, as drool worthy beautiful as your Van Nic is, I'm going to have to pass.
I can only have one bike at a time in my life and with owning a trailer, I insist on disk brakes.
Its simply non negotiable for me, although it doesn't stop me from sneaking into your blog site often to look longingly at your Van Nic.
Indeed I enjoy looking at your Sabbath too and could, in different circumstances see myself astride one as well.
I envy you your stable :)

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:06 pm
by grantw
@ronk and @leafT I had to double take on those two photos of your respective bikes on the same location

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:56 pm
by RonK
grantw wrote:@ronk and @leafT I had to double take on those two photos of your respective bikes on the same location

If you mean the Sabbath and the VN Grant - they are both mine. :)

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:12 pm
by grantw
RonK wrote:
grantw wrote:@ronk and @leafT I had to double take on those two photos of your respective bikes on the same location

If you mean the Sabbath and the VN Grant - they are both mine. :)


well that makes sense :-)

Re: Touring Ebay thread

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:15 am
by maxknott