Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist Rohlo

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby il padrone » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:49 pm

Interesting to compare the side profile of that Jones rig. It doesdn't seem too bad overall, but I may have been tricked by what seem to be 29"/700C wheeels and big tyres. The chainstays are 43cm but there is very little space between mudguard and seat tube. 43cms is OK for a touring clearance. Someone with size 10 and above will have heel clearance issues. The load sits fairly well over the rear axle, not swinging out to the rear like I've seen with some road bike adaptations.

Image



My Thorn Nomad has 26" wheels and 47cm chainstays. The extra 6cms allow the rear panniers tp be placed a bit more forward in relation to the rear axle.

Image
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19610
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

by BNA » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:49 pm

BNA
 

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby Andy » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:49 pm

Okay, Thanks for all the bag responses. Sorry to distract further but maybe the OP will find it useful too.

I imagine it would also double as a checked luggage bag to fill up with panniers etc when flying or is it not lockable? If lockable that would be a bonus. Top access when on the rack would be handy too. I'll keep it in mind but my overbuilt Seattle sports roll top dry bag is built to last.
User avatar
Andy
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:22 am

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby Andy » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:07 pm

With the Jones bike maybe toe overlap is an issue with the larger wheels.
User avatar
Andy
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:22 am

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby RonK » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:09 pm

Andy wrote:A quick diversion. Does anyone use the ortlieb bag pictured above on their rack? I really like the idea but they weigh a lot compared to a decent dry bag.

For some unfathonable reason I bough both sizes of these bags and don't use either of them. I intensely dislike the heavy, stiff and unyielding vinyl fabric they are made from.

If they were made from Cordura like my Roller Plus panniers I might use them, but I find an Alpkit Gourdon drybag a mucn more versatile choice.
Last edited by RonK on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 5773
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby RonK » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:16 pm

il padrone wrote:
RonK wrote:Somebody forgot to tell these riders then...the Tour Divide is "only" 4415km, but still a bit more than a day tour.

If you fancy sleeping in a bivvy bag and wearing the same set of clothes (day & night) for 14-40 days. Not my ideal sort of tour, but yes, it may suit some. Pheeeoooii, but they mean someting else when they say "Hi!" to you in town.


Scott Felter from Porcelain Rocket doesn't need to wear the same clothes and sleep in a bivvy bag.

Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 5773
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby rifraf » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:36 pm

It wouldn't be worth the comment if I hadn't seen the Ti Jeff Jones with the girder fork but that one in the red paint isn't a patch eye candy wise on the Ti version.
I'm sure its in practice more tour worthy than the girder fork version but having seen the original.............. :cry:
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2575
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby Uncle Just » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:58 am

Interesting vid Ron although I kept watching the horizon for a wave or the tide to take all his gear and bike away. :)

Where did he mention that he kept his tools/spares, sleeping mat? There was room in the seat pack for a bit more as he said. I'd like to know with these setups how they handle in comparison to a conventionally loaded tourer on the flat or climbing. Better I suspect as the weight is less and centred. I do like those capacious underseat bags and they make the traditional Carradice seat bag look antiquated. Even my minimal Tubus fly rack and dry bag setup is redundant now after seeing these lighter weight seat bags with similar carrying capacity!
Uncle Just
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:54 pm

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby Andy » Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:44 am

RonK wrote:
Andy wrote:A quick diversion. Does anyone use the ortlieb bag pictured above on their rack? I really like the idea but they weigh a lot compared to a decent dry bag.

For some unfathonable reason I bough both sizes of these bags and don't use either of them. I intensely dislike the heavy, stiff and unyielding vinyl fabric they are made from.

If they were made from Cordura like my Roller Plus panniers I might use them, but I find an Alpkit Gourdon drybag a mucn more versatile choice.


The Alpkit bag is versatile with the straps. I just remembered I know someone who uses a large day pack as a rack bag. Comes in handy for sight seeing but needs covering in the wet.

Let me know if you have a gear clear out Ron.
User avatar
Andy
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:22 am

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby RonK » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:27 am

Uncle Just wrote:Interesting vid Ron although I kept watching the horizon for a wave or the tide to take all his gear and bike away. :)

Where did he mention that he kept his tools/spares, sleeping mat? There was room in the seat pack for a bit more as he said. I'd like to know with these setups how they handle in comparison to a conventionally loaded tourer on the flat or climbing. Better I suspect as the weight is less and centred. I do like those capacious underseat bags and they make the traditional Carradice seat bag look antiquated. Even my minimal Tubus fly rack and dry bag setup is redundant now after seeing these lighter weight seat bags with similar carrying capacity!

Hehe, I though that too. :lol:

It's probably timely to start a bikepacking thread so I'll reply over there.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 5773
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby maxknott » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:47 pm

i use an ortlieb packrack 49(if thats the one i think you mean).
not light,but usefull to me for carrying bulky stuff(collapsible dog cage for vline trains)also doubles as a bath for said dog :-)
maxknott
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:16 pm

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby chillimagnum » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:08 pm

Wingnut wrote:I'm not so keen on drop bars for off road touring but I would go with the Co-Motion hands down if I was you...

There's for and against going with the Gates belt drive...limited gearing choice, belt drive doesn't like extreme mud and grit but there's no lubrication req and so so quiet...you can always carry a spare belt as they're pretty light.

Similar for and against issues with disc and rim brakes...these days you can get disc brake pads and spares (cable & hydraulic) anywhere in the world...people complain about discs being noisy or rubbing but so can rim brakes, wheels get buckled and they can squeal pretty loud too...if I was buying a modern bike today I wouldn't even consider rim brakes unless it was a road bike, but they'll be out of date in a couple of years too...

Go with the Pangea...


Unfortunately Co-motion have yet to respond, although intention was to get the frameset and build locally with flat or touring bars. I had consider the JJ H bars but the online store didn't work for Aus shipping.

Andy wrote:You could get a frame that has the ability to run belt drive but run it with chain for the time being because of supply issues in Asia. It would be difficult to find a replacement belt even in Bangkok I imagine.

That's a good point although taking a spare belt is not an issue.
Raven frame is not an option just now as I will be going the couplers and not interested in retro fitting these.
All considered will likely stay with chain for this tour but having a belt option later is ideal.

RonK wrote:Apart from the unnecessary disc brakes, your specification fits the Thorn Nomad quite precisely.

Why do you think unnecessary disc brake?
Reading through Rodbikes they mention that disc vs cantilever would result in having to run a Rohloff clickbox for disc brake. http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/popups ... ckbox.html
They also suggest cantilever for touring frames, but then they do sell their own $125 brake http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/bigsqueeze.html

Note sure if the Pangea requires the clickbox or not? Doesn't look like it.
Image

I thought disc would be a good option on the 20" Bike Friday wheel due to reported rim failure on steep descents but now not sure. But then wouldn't the disc brake rotor be subject to failure also in the same situation?
The other benefits being no rim wear and misaligned rims not causing braking issues.
Having only experience with Shimano 105 on 700c all I have to go by is online opinions on disc vs cantilever.

rifraf wrote:Yes it didn't escape my notice that the Divide wasn't one of your choices.
My point was that the Pangea, undoubtably a very nice unit, might not be worth the premium to you.
Get to ride one before making up your own mind "before" parting with your dosh.

Divide not considered as 26" wheel max.
Bike Friday considered due to portability. Was lucky to get a very brief (but not long enough to form any strong opinion) ride on one with Rohloff. Otherwise I never would have considered a 20" wheel or this style of bike.
BF have been very responsive to emails. Just having a hard time deciding on this one.

rifraf wrote:The difference in funds for something a little less exotic to ride might cover some fantastic touring of locations whose memory might be more worthwhile than a Reynolds sticker on your seat tube.

Good call. Nothing wrong with a placebo effect though? Pangea is a contender because it came with S&S as an option on a frame that supports Rohloff and belt drive, which limits what is available. Not so much the name on the tubing.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
chillimagnum
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:26 am

Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist Rohlo

Postby RonK » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:53 pm

chillimagnum wrote:
RonK wrote:Apart from the unnecessary disc brakes, your specification fits the Thorn Nomad quite precisely.

Why do you think unnecessary disc brake?

Reading through Rodbikes they mention that disc vs cantilever would result in having to run a Rohloff clickbox for disc brake. http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/popups ... ckbox.html
They also suggest cantilever for touring frames, but then they do sell their own $125 brake http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/bigsqueeze.html

Note sure if the Pangea requires the clickbox or not? Doesn't look like it.

I thought disc would be a good option on the 20" Bike Friday wheel due to reported rim failure on steep descents but now not sure. But then wouldn't the disc brake rotor be subject to failure also in the same situation?
The other benefits being no rim wear and misaligned rims not causing braking issues.
Having only experience with Shimano 105 on 700c all I have to go by is online opinions on disc vs cantilever.

A touring bike doesn't need disc brakes and for simplicity/reliability sake most tourists don't want them. That's why few touring bikes are offered with discs. V brakes have just as much stopping power in the dry, and most tourists would shelter when it rains any more than a light shower rather than ride in it. Disc brakes are probably nice to have, but I wouldn't let the decision swing on them unless all else is equal.

I don't know about rim wear on a Bike Friday with 20" wheels - it may well be a problem. But a 26" Rohloff tourer will need to fitted with strong rims such as the Rigida Andra CSS. These have ceramic hardened brake surfaces and wear is simply not an issue.

The Rod bike probably needs a clickbox because it has no EBB and uses horizontal dropouts for chain adjustment - a cheap, half-baked and rather unsatisfactory solution. The Pangea has Rohloff-specific vertical dropouts and probably doesn't need a clickbox, although some prefer to use one because they say it makes wheel removal slightly easier, and can be used as a security feature by putting the bike in top gear and disconnecting the clickbox, which makes it very difficult to ride away. I don't use a clickbox and don't find the standard bayonet type cable connectors any great impediment.

On closer inspection, Co-Motion do use a clickbox.
Image

I a little confused about your choices. On the one hand you are looking at (albeit capable) lightweight folding bike, and on the other end of the spectrum you are looking at an expedition class heavyweight. There is a mile of difference between them. You need to think carefully about the type of touring you want to do before making a choice either way.

Oh, and I'd pass on the S&S couplers too - they are simply not worth the trouble and expense, and will further limit your options. Most tourists seem to manage to travel without them. All my tours have involved air travel and I certainly don't have them.
Last edited by RonK on Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 5773
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby il padrone » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:26 pm

That Rodbike site is full of so much BS its amazing!!

Most manufacturers opt for the easy way out. The Rohloff shift box is kind of a 'slap it on and go' way to route the shift cables. It saves a lot of time and design work for your builder, but will cost you precious minutes (or hours) down the road.

I've been running the EX box for the past 3 years, and I don't see how it has cost me more time :?: It is very easy to drop off for wheel removal, probably not a lot more than the bayonet cable connectors, but neater. It also gives completely enclosed cables which is great for riding dusty/muddy roads over long periods.


To the left is a picture of a bike using the Rohloff shift box.
Important note: if your bike uses the shift box, it's important to leave the shifter alone while your wheel is out of the bike. If the shifter is bumped or moved while not connected to the wheel, it will be very time consuming trying to line your gears back up.

Time consuming ??

If you are silly enough to allow this to happen, you simply rotate the shift bolt to the end and do the same with your shifter barrel, then connect. It's pretty easy really.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19610
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby Andy » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:44 pm

The "clickbox" info on the Rod bikes site is the biggest load of phooey out there. They must have some pretty dumb customers to have to put that on the site. It's truly absurd. I have the external shifter and wheel removal is easier than a derailleur set up. The issue of the shifter moving when box not connected? Rarely happens and if it does it's as simple as rotating the gear stub to the last stop and putting the shifter into 1 or 14 dependent on which way you rotated stub. If anything was gonna worry you, and I wouldn't worry with either, from what I've read the internal gearbox is a potential headache as the cables that route internally into the hub are fiddly to replace and they wear out requiring an original Rohloff part. The external system can use any old regular gear cable if needed.

From experience the CSS rigida rims are a great choice.

Man that is one fugly dropout plate thingy
Image

Beaten to the draw by IP. Anyway, What he said.
User avatar
Andy
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:22 am

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby Andy » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:47 pm

User avatar
Andy
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:22 am

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby chillimagnum » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:29 am

Any opinions on the Pangea fork vs other touring bikes? Surly, VWR, and the VN above appear to have a different style fork.

Image
chillimagnum
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby RonK » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:51 am

It's a unicrown fork - nothing uncommon about them. Looks to be plenty rugged, as you would expect from CoMotion.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 5773
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby Andy » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:32 am

A straight fork supposedly gives a harsher ride. The bend in a fork can help smooth this out. I've not owned a straight fork so I can't tell you what's better but as you noted many touring bikes tend to have curved forks.
User avatar
Andy
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:22 am

Re: Comotion Pangea Rohloff or Bike Friday Diamond Tourist R

Postby gilruth36 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:05 am

I got my Pangea through Flying Furniture. I seriously considered a Bike Friday but wasn't convinced about the 20" tires on dirt back roads.

Co-motion made my bike with flat bars, so I'd be surprised if they couldn't customise your bars. I haven't had the chance to take it touring yet (it's been a somewhat over-spec'ed commuter) but I'm really enjoying the bike and it's fun to take off-road. I've only recently got the "co-pilot" padding to go with the couplers (haven't yet cut them to size - a project in the next week or two) so I can't tell you whether the couplers are clunky to use when transporting.
gilruth36
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:16 pm

Previous

Return to Touring Bikes and Equipment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Ebay Ebay AU
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers