sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby Cheesewheel » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:39 pm

This thread arises from my contemplation of options to get more gears out of the 1 x 10 krampus range.

for the uninitiated, sticking a double chain ring on the front poses tyre rub issues in the lower gears. The sram dual drive is a 3 speed internal gear hub that can fit 9 spd cassettes ... and seems like the easiest solution

A web search shows that the only bikes that seem to be equipped with them are dubious ones from China .... and there doesn't seem to be much out there on retrofitting them.

Anyone got any experience or thoughts on the subject?
GO!! Run!!! GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!
User avatar
Cheesewheel
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: GoldCoast Qld

by BNA » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:28 pm

BNA
 

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby RonK » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:28 pm

They are quite popular for recumbents and bikes with small diameter wheels where a long cage derailleur is vulnerable to damage. They have been around for years, originally from Sachs Germany before they became SRAM. See Sheldon Brown.

Another option you could consider is a Schlumpf Mountain Drive.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 5783
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby lobstermash » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:50 pm

Yep, I had (and have seller's regret) a BikeE with a 3-speed hub and 7sp freewheel. I guess the disadvantages of using this setup are the same as with any IGH; weight and serviceability (including both faults with the hub itself and with the wheel in general).
Image
lobstermash
 
Posts: 1185
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:51 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby il padrone » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:43 pm

Greenspeed (Ian Sims) has used them for many years on his recumbent trikes to get a much wider range for climbing and fast riding. Most of the trikes have 63 gears I think, including tall high gears and walking speed lows.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19612
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby il padrone » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:48 pm

lobstermash wrote:I guess the disadvantages of using this setup are the same as with any IGH; weight and serviceability

*cough* (Rohloff)

While I can agree that weight is not light for the Rohloff, it is not that much greater than a conventional touring or MTB derailleur drivetrain, and the weight is central on the wheel. But servicability for a Rohloff is outstanding - far bettter than any derailleur drivetrain.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19612
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:57 pm

John Lewis has repaired quite a few of them due to them breaking. That put me off getting one for my Ice Trike which you got cheesewheel
Masi Speciale CX 2008 - Brooks B17 special saddle, Garmin Edge 810
Image
Baalzamon
 
Posts: 4744
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:23 pm
Location: Yangebup

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby Aushiker » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:21 pm

SRAM have an nine-speed IGH coming out, the SRAM G9 (disc and belt drive compatible). Maybe another option to consider?

Andrew
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20564
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby petie » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:35 pm

I acquired a Schlumpf mountain drive recently (fitted to my recumbent). Not sure if that is an option if you airway have the rear wheel? Certainly get good spread with the 2.5:1 and 1:1!
petie
 
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:16 pm
Location: The Ice rink, bring skates

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby mikedufty » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:42 pm

My parents just got a dahon folding bike with the dual drive and are very impressed with it, much better shifting than a front derailleur. Haven't had it long enough to say anything about durability.
User avatar
mikedufty
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:52 pm
Location: Western Australia, Bull Creek

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby find_bruce » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:55 pm

My guess is that the dual drive is a bit betwixt and between, with no clear "this is why you want it" feature
Image
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 4090
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby rifraf » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:48 pm

I'm a fan of the SRAM dual drive and have a new one sitting in my parts bin should I ever have to build up a spare wheel to get my Ogre back on the road due to Rohloff failure. The Dualdrive is often set up beyond the manufacturers warranty spec which makes it obvious as to the reason some have experienced failures. Even Rohloff has a manufacturer spec gear ratio to keep within to maintain warranty
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2587
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby Cheesewheel » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:45 am

rifraf wrote:I'm a fan of the SRAM dual drive and have a new one sitting in my parts bin should I ever have to build up a spare wheel to get my Ogre back on the road due to Rohloff failure. The Dualdrive is often set up beyond the manufacturers warranty spec which makes it obvious as to the reason some have experienced failures. Even Rohloff has a manufacturer spec gear ratio to keep within to maintain warranty

How do the dual gear cables rig up on the frame? Are there any special work arounds required to get two gear cables connected to the rear hub or can it all pretty much be done with a few cable ties?
GO!! Run!!! GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!
User avatar
Cheesewheel
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: GoldCoast Qld

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby il padrone » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:33 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:
rifraf wrote:I'm a fan of the SRAM dual drive and have a new one sitting in my parts bin should I ever have to build up a spare wheel to get my Ogre back on the road due to Rohloff failure. The Dualdrive is often set up beyond the manufacturers warranty spec which makes it obvious as to the reason some have experienced failures. Even Rohloff has a manufacturer spec gear ratio to keep within to maintain warranty

How do the dual gear cables rig up on the frame? Are there any special work arounds required to get two gear cables connected to the rear hub or can it all pretty much be done with a few cable ties?

Rohloff you mean? It all depends on what your frame has. If you have the good sense to buy a Rohloff-dedicated frame there may be a nice set of dual cable-guides already fitted.

Image


Otherwise you can just use the existing rear derailleur cable guides on the top/down tube for one cable, and cable tie the second cable housing alongside (what I did with my wife's Rohloff on her Giant Sedona MTB frame). Rohloff do make special dual cable housing cable-ties to secure the housings.

Image
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19612
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby rifraf » Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:49 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:
rifraf wrote:I'm a fan of the SRAM dual drive and have a new one sitting in my parts bin should I ever have to build up a spare wheel to get my Ogre back on the road due to Rohloff failure. The Dualdrive is often set up beyond the manufacturers warranty spec which makes it obvious as to the reason some have experienced failures. Even Rohloff has a manufacturer spec gear ratio to keep within to maintain warranty

How do the dual gear cables rig up on the frame? Are there any special work arounds required to get two gear cables connected to the rear hub or can it all pretty much be done with a few cable ties?

Sorry for the late reply,
I'd missed your post.
Assuming your talking generally and not specific, a cable tie is all that would been needed for the second cable.
I'm sure there are other fitment options available if you look hard enough, in the way of frame cable attachments.
My Moulton had previously utilised the Sachs 3x7 so already had factory brazed fittings for two rear cables running along the drive side chain stay.
I think when I swapped to the dual drive I used a cable tie due to a difference in length of cable.
Yip - here tis:
Image

Image
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2587
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: sram dual drives? why are they not popular?

Postby rifraf » Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:03 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:This thread arises from my contemplation of options to get more gears out of the 1 x 10 krampus range.

for the uninitiated, sticking a double chain ring on the front poses tyre rub issues in the lower gears. The sram dual drive is a 3 speed internal gear hub that can fit 9 spd cassettes ... and seems like the easiest solution

A web search shows that the only bikes that seem to be equipped with them are dubious ones from China .... and there doesn't seem to be much out there on retrofitting them.

Anyone got any experience or thoughts on the subject?


Like many IGH's, the Dualdrive has a manufacturer specified gear ratio to keep within warranty.
I've read of failures with regards Srams non Dualdrive, basic 3 speed IGH's not being up to 29er duty due to a lack of robustness.
I'd personally equate this to the Dualdrive which is the same basic unit with the addition of a cassette.
Whilst I've happily toured utilising the Dualdrive on mixed surface conditions, its not marketed as a pure off road hub suitable for hell for leather treatment.
I think to get the gear inches you'd find useful, you'd see the Dualdrive out of warranty spec on your Krampus.
Easyist solution? - Yes
Best solution? - Perhaps not
You web search perhaps needs some work as there is a lot of bikes with Dualdrive, though with perhaps a bias toward small wheel bikes and folders.
Some of them including Moultons, Bike Fridays, Terns and Dahons hardly in the ilk of dubious Chinese bikes.

The earlier incarnation which was the Sachs 3x7, utilised no click box, but the same sort of set up as the Sturmey Archer IGH inner gear change.
Apologies for the dreadfully ill focused pic:

Image

Sturmey Archer also makes its own version of a Dualdrive (3 speed internal with cassette)

Having a click box like the Dualdrive means wanting a Bob Trailer attaching to the axle nuts impossible.
I'd just bought a Bob before upgrading to the Dualdrive in anticipation of moving to WA by riding my Moulton there.
I had to rethink my trailer ownership which saw me sell the Bob (at a loss) and buy a Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer.
Probably not an issue on the Krampus due to dropout mounted trailer nuts rather than axle mounted ones.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2587
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA


Return to Touring Bikes and Equipment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: piledhigher



Popular Bike Shops
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Ebay Ebay AU
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers