Rohloff which Axle

Rohloff which Axle

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:58 am

For those that are currently using then which setup did you choose the QR axle or Threaded Spindle axle? Could you give a reason for your choice as it might apply to my setup with something I over looked. My thought at this stage is pairing it with a Schlumpf Mountain Drive.

Thanks Ricky
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by BNA » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:04 am

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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby Andy » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:04 am

I use the quick release axle. I also use Pitlock skewer for the additional security. My frame is a Thorn raven tour with vertical drop outs.

What frame are you going to be using?
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby Wingnut » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:20 am

I use quick release but my understanding is the bolt on version bites better...especially if you have reversed dropouts such as on Surly's...
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:05 pm

Andy I'm using a recumbent trike frame that has vertical drop outs so I was leaning towards QR because of ease of use and as Wingnut pointed out I won't be suffering from slippage due to torque. Not overly concerned with theft so my standard QR skewer will be used. Being vertical drop outs I'm assuming I need the chain tensioner as part of the purchase?

Ricky
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby Andy » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:05 pm

My frame has an eccentric bottom bracket to adjust chain tension so I don't need the tensioner. I know squat about trikes so can't say what's best but if there is no other way to tension the chain you will need the tensioner. You will probably need the speed bone thing too if the frame is designed for a derailleur system. If there are mounting points for disc brakes I think there is a way to use this rather than the speed bone but again I'm no expert so best be sure of what you need. Have you tried calling Rohloff Australia? They should be able to advise you. Local prices are competitive with overseas ones these days.
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Rohloff which Axle

Postby RonK » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:04 pm

If you have vertical dropouts, a QR will be fine. Best to use an internal cam type QR, these have superior clamping force.

With vertical dropouts you will need a chain tensioner unless you have an EBB to adjust chain tension.
Depending on the type of dropouts you will need either one of the several types of OEM axle plate or a torque arm. Use the selection wizard on the Rohloff site to guide you.

Post a pic of your dropouts from the left side.
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:45 am

Here are some images Ron...

Image

Image

Image

I'm still looking over the Rohloff site I'm looking at the disk hub version so if you can tell by my images to what I'm needing then thanks. I'm guessing that I can mount the chain tensioner to my existing hanger?

Ricky
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby rifraf » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:11 pm

Hi Ricky,
have you blown your Dual Drive?
Whilst I believe running stock standard within warranty gearing ratios, the Rohloff is a stronger unit, they are still breakable which is the reason Rohloff offer strict guidelines with regards gearing ratios to utilise their warranty.
Last I looked, for rider under 100kg, Rohloff says 34T/16T for a 700c/29er wheel.
You'll have to check their site for 20' (406) rim sizing.
I'm waffling about the gear ratios as a I believe its the super deep reduction low range use (triple front chainring on cranks) that makes the dual drive spit the dummy but they remain good bang for buck with the caveat of being somewhat challenging to source parts (from what I've heard)

If I was revisiting my hub purchase, rather than the QR I'd currently be leaning towards the threaded axel but Wingnuts logic sounds fine to me for your use.

If you get serious about the Rohloff, do try to take one for a ride first before taking the plunge as in my opinion they can be an acquired taste and are not for everyone.

I"m not getting online much currently due to my some expenditure taking priority over my prepay purchase but I'm trying to get to the library every few days, so apologies in advance for any late replies on my part.
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby Mike Ayling » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:25 pm

WE have a quick release axle on our Thorn tandem.
It has vertical dropouts and EBB.

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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby il padrone » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:41 pm

You will not be able to use an OEM short torque arm base-plate with the dropouts you have, but rather than the long torque arm you should be able to use the special OEM base-plate that slots against your disc caliper mount

Image
Image

Or if that doesn't reach there is the Speed Bone
Image
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby RonK » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:30 pm

}SkOrPn--7 wrote:Here are some images Ron...

I'm still looking over the Rohloff site I'm looking at the disk hub version so if you can tell by my images to what I'm needing then thanks. I'm guessing that I can mount the chain tensioner to my existing hanger?

Ricky

OK, I just need to know what colour hub (silver, red, black), disc size and the brand of caliper and I can get you the list of part numbers off the Rohloff wizard.

I presume you'll need some shifter cable clips and the like too.
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby RonK » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:32 pm

il padrone wrote:You will not be able to use an OEM short torque arm base-plate with the dropouts you have, but rather than the long torque arm you should be able to use the special OEM base-plate that slots against your disc caliper mount

Or if that doesn't reach there is the Speed Bone


Both an OEM2 Axle Plate and a Speedbone will be required.
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:47 pm

rifraf wrote:Hi Ricky,
have you blown your Dual Drive?
Whilst I believe running stock standard within warranty gearing ratios, the Rohloff is a stronger unit, they are still breakable which is the reason Rohloff offer strict guidelines with regards gearing ratios to utilise their warranty.
Last I looked, for rider under 100kg, Rohloff says 34T/16T for a 700c/29er wheel.
You'll have to check their site for 20' (406) rim sizing.
I'm waffling about the gear ratios as a I believe its the super deep reduction low range use (triple front chainring on cranks) that makes the dual drive spit the dummy but they remain good bang for buck with the caveat of being somewhat challenging to source parts (from what I've heard)

If I was revisiting my hub purchase, rather than the QR I'd currently be leaning towards the threaded axel but Wingnuts logic sounds fine to me for your use.

If you get serious about the Rohloff, do try to take one for a ride first before taking the plunge as in my opinion they can be an acquired taste and are not for everyone.

I"m not getting online much currently due to my some expenditure taking priority over my prepay purchase but I'm trying to get to the library every few days, so apologies in advance for any late replies on my part.


Hi Aidan no the duel drive is fine it's built up on another rim. My last around Australia journey I just did I swapped out those wheels for a new set and I went back to the conventional hub and cassette with custom made granny chainring and cassette sprockets. My rear wheel is 24" and with the setup I'm planning the warranty will be voided but warranty doesn't mean anything to me as I belief Rohloff are placing way too much caution on there product regarding torque. I also believe that with the setup I'm planning you would still be hard pressed to shear there pin.

That's the reason I went back to a conventional hub because parts for a duel drive are like hens teeth. I don't think I will be able to test drive a Rohloff and from reading all the praise from you guys I think I have a pretty good judgement that I can make it work and get the gear inch I want knowing the warranty will be binned but still function without blowing the hub.

No worries Aidan I fully understand I haven't been aroaund much myself life is busy for me as well. I just finished high pressure spraying the bike to blow all the mud and crap off it from my last tour and rebuilding it to get it reading again but the Rohloff has been jabbing me in tbe sides and now I'm seriously looking into it.

Ricky
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:59 pm

Thanks Pete for the images that helps allot to see how things marry up.


RonK wrote:
}SkOrPn--7 wrote:Here are some images Ron...

I'm still looking over the Rohloff site I'm looking at the disk hub version so if you can tell by my images to what I'm needing then thanks. I'm guessing that I can mount the chain tensioner to my existing hanger?

Ricky

OK, I just need to know what colour hub (silver, red, black), disc size and the brand of caliper and I can get you the list of part numbers off the Rohloff wizard.

I presume you'll need some shifter cable clips and the like too.


Hi Ron I'm going with a red disk hub 203mm rotors and because most of my spare parts I have I will stick with Avid. Yeah I will need the complete caboodl and the longest cables they have. I will also order there spare parts box set and tool set. Were are you guys all buying Rohloff gear from?

Thanks Ron
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby RonK » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:54 pm

Ok, here is the output from the Rohloff Speedhub finder for vertical dropouts with disk brakes. You need to order all 5 of the recommended parts. Note that Rohloff offer another version of the 8026 for tandems, part number 8026T - hard to find what the difference is, but I assume it's longer cables. It may be harder to get and likely more expensive. As I recall the supplied cables were pretty long anyway.

I got my hub from Bike24, others from StarBike. Be careful ordering though, it's easy to exceed the $1000 threshold and then getting hit with import charges.

Of the suggested parts you won't want the downhill parts so probably just a handful of cable clips.

:We recomend the following version of the SPEEDHUB 500/14:

Art Nr: 8026 SPEEDHUB 500/14 CC DB OEM Red
Art Nr: 8250 Chain Tensioner Order together!
Art Nr: 8227 Axle Plate CC OEM2 Order together!
Art Nr: 8286 Brake Disc 203 mm for Shimano DH, Hayes, Formula Order
together!
Art Nr: 8550 Speedbone Order together!

Chosen Brake: Avid - 203

ATTENTION:
Rohloff OEM2 - When permission has not been granted by the frame manufacturer to mount the Rohloff SPEEDBONE or the support bolt through the disc brake mount, then mounting of the OEM2 versions is at your own risk.

Spokes for the wheel:
Attention, The lacing into a rim of the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 requires special spoke lengths!

The following articles could also be ordered for the hub:
Art Nr: 8290 Chain Guide
Art Nr: 8293 DH-Kit
Art Nr: 8291 Downhill-Guide
Art Nr: 8245 DH Chain Tensioner Shorty
Art Nr: 5200 Cabelclipp

Fundamentally, we recomend for your bike: Bicycle Insurance
We reccommend the additional use of a Pitlock System as protection against theft.
© by Rohloff AG -- Technical specifications are subject to change without notice. E & oe.
ID: a4.SB-1.s3.FR.T-0 --- Thu Jul 24 23:41:48 GMT+1000 2014 --- Daten-Version: 2006.02.08
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:55 am

That's fantastic Ron I haven't had a chance to go through it all but I did forget to make mention of one important part weather that makes any different to the part numbers. I'm will be using a 32H rim so I need a red disk 32H hub. Your probably right on just being longer cables for the tandem but before ordering I will contact Rohloff and give them my cable run length being a trike as I guess there cables can be cut down is that correct? Although I'm yet to hear anyone mention needing tandem cables for a standard trike.

I'm aware of the $$$ limit but you can't avoid the over limit on the hub alone but I can break all the other items into smaller orders. Those same stores also sell the Schlumpf Mountain Drive do you know? I can look those up anyway when I get time to see the stores you listed.

Cheers Ricky
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby Warin » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:50 am

The tandem hub should have a width of 145mm rather than the current mtb hub width of 135mm. The 145mm hub should build a stronger wheel if you can get it to fit in your frame.
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby Andy » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:37 am

I recall that shimano gear cables will work no problem with Rohloff. It's better to have the outer casing full length but you may find having exposed cable between the cable bosses is a work around.

And as I mentioned above I would check pricing with Rohloff Australia directly because you may find it better than overseas and much faster delivery. No connection with Rohloff Australaia myself other than mostly excellent warranty support.
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby Andy » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:46 am

I just measured my spare rohloff cables. The outer is 1810mm and the inner extends a further 190mm.
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Rohloff which Axle

Postby Wingnut » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:10 pm

Andy wrote:And as I mentioned above I would check pricing with Rohloff Australia directly because you may find it better than overseas and much faster delivery. No connection with Rohloff Australaia myself other than mostly excellent warranty support.


I went with a bike shop instead of online as it's handy when help is needed and warranty issues...the savings just weren't enough to justify going overseas for me...
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:09 pm

Thanks Andy I will look into all means Wingnut but I need to purchase a rim from the US and I know my supplier will build the Rohloff into my rim just saving me a task so I'm happy to pay for any cost to import. I will just get him to place it on a bike to test before sending then it's secondhand and invoices can be changed to reflect the $1000.00 limit :mrgreen:

Ron I won't need a speed bone with this setup will I?

http://www.cyclemonkey.com/monkey_bone.shtml

http://cyclemonkey.bigcartel.com/product/monkey-bone

Ricky
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby RonK » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:17 pm

}SkOrPn--7 wrote:Thanks Andy I will look into all means Wingnut but I need to purchase a rim from the US and I know my supplier will build the Rohloff into my rim just saving me a task so I'm happy to pay for any cost to import. I will just get him to place it on a bike to test before sending then it's secondhand and invoices can be changed to reflect the $1000.00 limit :mrgreen:

Ron I won't need a speed bone with this setup will I?

http://www.cyclemonkey.com/monkey_bone.shtml

http://cyclemonkey.bigcartel.com/product/monkey-bone

Ricky

Nope, it's either/or. The Monkeybone looks like a worthwhile improvement.

Andy would be right about the axle spacing of the tandem version, but at midnight I couldn't think of it for the life of me. It's only the axle plates that are wider, not the hub, so no advantage to be gained

I wouldn't fuss too much about the cables - as mentioned they are the same pattern as Shimano and you should be to get tandem cables locally if need be.
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:59 am

Thanks Ron I might give the Monkeybone a try seems like a little cleaner down the back end. How does the speedbone mount to the axle plate is it bolted? Just glad that I can use what ever cables so thanks

Ricky
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Re: Rohloff which Axle

Postby il padrone » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:50 am

Uses the same OEM2 axle-plate.

Image


However the Monkeybone does look to be a cleaner solution.
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