One bike to ride them all

IanC
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One bike to ride them all

Postby IanC » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:11 pm

Bunch rides, road touring, rough gravel roads, green (easy) MTB trails - 1 bike and 2 sets of wheels/tyres. Can it work?

Say I buy a Ti Van Nicholas Cyclocross Amazon (or similar) with a dynamo hub, drops and lugs for paniers etc. With skinny tyres on road bike rims I'd hope not to be dropped too often in my fairly easy going weekend bunch rides (if they are sprinting form the lights - that's not my group!)

Then swap to the sturdy rims and touring tyres, bolt on the paniers, pack some knobbly tyres and jump on a plane. When we get to the destination we tour for a while, find a base in an area with MTB trails, take off the paniers, slip on the nobblies and ride the easy trails.

My first bike was a hybrid and did neither the road nor MTB tracks well. However, looking at the Van Nick site, I can build a cyclocross bike only a couple of water bottles heavier than my road bike. People seem to ride those bikes on country I'd think twice about on my full suspension MTB. Mind you, I'll keep my full suspension MTB for my Sunday arvo rides up the local trails.

As for comfort, I have ridden a long way on both my road bike and mountain bike, but not loaded up for touring. I'd rather ride 100km on my road bike with drops than my flat bar MTB, any day. I've not done any touring yet, so I am not sure about the trade offs with different geometries and how that plays out on a long loaded ride.

If I am going to spend the money on a really nice Ti bike, it would be good to be able to ride it as much as I possibly can. I want to get into touring, but if I can't ride the bike every week I can't really justify the cost. Any comments on whether this could work and what factors should be considered, would be appreciated.

BenGr
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby BenGr » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:32 pm

Yes.

I currently ride a Specialized Tricross. I've toured, done plenty of road riding and a bit of single track. It may not be the best at everything but I'd say it does more than well enough.

Be wary of a pure CX bike though, as the geometry may not be that great for touring. Big thing is to make sure the chain stays are long enough so heel strike on panniers isn't an issue.

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RonK
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby RonK » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:47 pm

IanC wrote:Bunch rides, road touring, rough gravel roads, green (easy) MTB trails - 1 bike and 2 sets of wheels/tyres. Can it work?

That depends on how much compromise you are willing to accept, but ultimately I would say no - it's likely to be less than satisfying.

I have two titanium bikes, one of them a road tourer which if stripped down and with lightweight wheels fitted might get me on the back of the bunch, though the touring gearing could be a bit short for fast rides. With careful concentration it's ok on good gravel roads but it won't take wide enough tyres for rough gravel and MTB trails.

The other an expedition tourer - nice fat rubber will see it comfortably handle MTB trails, gravel and highway touring, but even if stripped down and with skinny wheels fitted it would hard work to take on a bunch ride.

IanC wrote:I can build a cyclocross bike only a couple of water bottles heavier than my road bike.

That's probably not gonna haul a touring load very well.

IanC wrote:If I am going to spend the money on a really nice Ti bike, it would be good to be able to ride it as much as I possibly can. I want to get into touring, but if I can't ride the bike every week I can't really justify the cost. Any comments on whether this could work and what factors should be considered, would be appreciated.

I only get to go touring once a year but I find plenty of opportunities to ride my touring bike every week. As it happens since taking up touring I find my riding interests have changed and I prefer to ride my tourers more and more and the others less.

A new Van Nicholas is going to cost a shipload of money - been there, done that. My thinking is the exact opposite - if I'm going to spend a lot of money on a bike I don't want it to be compromised. That's why I kept my carbon fibre roadie and my MTB.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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il padrone
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby il padrone » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:14 pm

Good touring bikes make perfectly fine commuters, so your goal of riding it lots will be easy to achieve. But it is a gravely misguided proposition to think that a good touring bike might be acceptable in the roadie peleton - Mr Bean/Jacques Tati notwithstanding :P



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baabaa
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby baabaa » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:02 pm

Things have changed quite a bit in the past few years.
Forget about racks and panniers and start by looking at frame bags and bike packing and then work back to the type of bike that you consider that you could commute on one day and then ride 200 ks in comfort over both tar and double track for the weekends.
The loaded tour bike is really a different beast as it needs racks and panniers.While they are wonderful beasts for multi week tours this type of touring really is not for everyone and really just for weirdos.
http://tomsbiketrip.com/planning-your-f ... ign=buffer
The price and ease of modern frame bags means you can get these to fit right with most bikes and then have a multi use bike which works for you right for most functions from the start. Buy the right bags and you can then buy another bike that suits most if not all of your bike frame bags just by looking at the new frames sizes and geo specs

koshari
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby koshari » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:15 pm

Have you checked out the Open U.P. ?
http://up.opencycle.com/
Mind you at close to USD3k just for frame and forkset it might not be everyone cup of tea.
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il padrone
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby il padrone » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:57 pm

baabaa wrote:The loaded tour bike is really a different beast as it needs racks and panniers.While they are wonderful beasts for multi week tours this type of touring really is not for everyone and really just for weirdos

Bejeebus, lay off the libellous labels !!! :shock: :x

Some of us just enjoy riding a bike with few creature comforts and supplies to tide us through a few days/a week or two in the bush.


baabaa wrote:http://tomsbiketrip.com/planning-your-first-big-bike-trip-ask-yourself-these-7-critical-questions-first/?utm_content=bufferef14d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
The price and ease of modern frame bags means you can get these to fit right with most bikes and then have a multi use bike which works for you right for most functions from the start. Buy the right bags and you can then buy another bike that suits most if not all of your bike frame bags just by looking at the new frames sizes and geo specs


I shall say nowt about 'the right bags'. Generally unimpressed with the attitude.
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tmac100
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby tmac100 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:27 am

baabaa wrote:Things have changed quite a bit in the past few years.
...
The loaded tour bike is really a different beast as it needs racks and panniers.While they are wonderful beasts for multi week tours this type of touring really is not for everyone and really just for weirdos.
...


Yes, you can have your opinion. But so what?? Maybe you are just looking for a rise from someone.... I will bite :roll:

Bicycled the Savannah Way and across from Perth to Sydney in 2 different trips. Pretty indestructible bike I had made up in Canada for less than $3000 (2005 Canadian). It has S &S connectors but have never used them... Classic touring bicycle built to fit ME.

Still lots to travel on OZ. Specifically cape York, The Outback Way and ...A pic of the 10 y.o. Arvon1 which has 2 racks not just the one shown in the pic...

http://www.sandsmachine.com/a_arv_001.htm

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baabaa
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby baabaa » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:04 am

Hey tmac read the topic question. I see myself as a bike touring weirdo and have bike toured most of NSW and the east coast and bottom part of Western Oz.
Some of my bike touring kit is from the mid 1980s and includes two sets of made in oz bike panniers by wilderness equipment and summit gear. Still use them and racks from blackburn and nitto. I have had good kit and spent what was big $$ at the time to get the right bike and touring kit combo.
SO....
if I was starting again I would look out for what is available now not what was in use 5, 10 or 20 years ago. You just do not need to spend the big bucks now to get out on a bike and with the issues of modern living and demands for space, having one do it all bike is a bloody good option. Bikepacking just works for this and now for me and plenty of others.
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and btw read the link, makes a lot of sense if you have done any long tours.

Uncle Just
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby Uncle Just » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:38 pm

Thanks for the link Baabaa. He makes sense. I may not have phrased them as weirdos, more misfits ime. :lol:

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RonK
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby RonK » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:49 pm

baabaa wrote:While they are wonderful beasts for multi week tours this type of touring really is not for everyone and really just for weirdos.
http://tomsbiketrip.com/planning-your-f ... ign=buffer

This guy is not a weirdo - he's a w*nker. He needs professional help to deal with depression like that.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

Chris249
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby Chris249 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:46 pm

il padrone wrote:Good touring bikes make perfectly fine commuters, so your goal of riding it lots will be easy to achieve. But it is a gravely misguided proposition to think that a good touring bike might be acceptable in the roadie peleton - Mr Bean/Jacques Tati notwithstanding :P


???????????? Surely it all depends on how one defines "good touring bike". I'm only doing tours about 8 days long at the max and sometimes take a hotel, but the race-geometry CX bike has no problems handling that, and yet even with the front rack on I would be very surprised if anyone made an adverse comment on a club or shop ride.

I'd have absolutely no issues wandering into a typical roadie peleton with the CX bike. The only issue is that the gearing that works for dragging camping kit over climbs like the Stelvio may leave one a little bit close to spinning out on the sprints, but something like a 105 level alloy CX bike running skinny tyres could live fairly happily in B Grade club races, which means living happily in the typical "fast" roadie peleton.

Would the CX bike be ideal for a year-long heavily laden tour? Probably not, but there are people who have ridden around the world with less "touring friendly" bikes, and I wouldn't want to do some of the tours I've enjoyed on a 15kg tourer either.
Kestrel Talon road 2007
Como Vivente road 2009
Principia track track 2014
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Concaeio road

Chris249
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby Chris249 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:54 pm

IanC wrote:Bunch rides, road touring, rough gravel roads, green (easy) MTB trails - 1 bike and 2 sets of wheels/tyres. Can it work?

Say I buy a Ti Van Nicholas Cyclocross Amazon (or similar) with a dynamo hub, drops and lugs for paniers etc. With skinny tyres on road bike rims I'd hope not to be dropped too often in my fairly easy going weekend bunch rides (if they are sprinting form the lights - that's not my group!)

Then swap to the sturdy rims and touring tyres, bolt on the paniers, pack some knobbly tyres and jump on a plane. When we get to the destination we tour for a while, find a base in an area with MTB trails, take off the paniers, slip on the nobblies and ride the easy trails.

My first bike was a hybrid and did neither the road nor MTB tracks well. However, looking at the Van Nick site, I can build a cyclocross bike only a couple of water bottles heavier than my road bike. People seem to ride those bikes on country I'd think twice about on my full suspension MTB. Mind you, I'll keep my full suspension MTB for my Sunday arvo rides up the local trails.

As for comfort, I have ridden a long way on both my road bike and mountain bike, but not loaded up for touring. I'd rather ride 100km on my road bike with drops than my flat bar MTB, any day. I've not done any touring yet, so I am not sure about the trade offs with different geometries and how that plays out on a long loaded ride.

If I am going to spend the money on a really nice Ti bike, it would be good to be able to ride it as much as I possibly can. I want to get into touring, but if I can't ride the bike every week I can't really justify the cost. Any comments on whether this could work and what factors should be considered, would be appreciated.


Your dream bike sounds pretty damn awesome to me. Heel strike on the Merida CX bikes my wife and I have is only an issue with big panniers that are allowed to sit at the front of the rack - otherwise it's no issue. From my limited experience of a few days playing at the Canberra CX areas and doing things like the Half Fling race, I'd agree that you can do lots of MTB trails on a CX bike, although the World Cup downhill course at Mt Stromlo is quite slow and tough on a CX bike!

My touring is restricted to a few trips of a few days doing European alpine climbs (often carrying kit from place to place with an all-up weight of about 27kg of bike and gear) and then joining my wife and her sister for gentle cruises of a few days. The 'cross bike is fantastic for that, as well as for commuting, shopping and CX racing. One thing I would definitely do is put CX type cross-top brake levers on it; they are great for off-road descents and when you want to sit high for touring or commuting.
Kestrel Talon road 2007
Como Vivente road 2009
Principia track track 2014
Cervelo P2K TT 2003
Merida CX4 2010
Concaeio road

avolve
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby avolve » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:56 pm

Bike packing and touring, whislt having some crossover can be quite different.

There are many things a touring set can achieve whereas bike packing can not. Apple and Oranges. Not everyone is a minimalist.

The first question would be to gather further detail on what the OP wants to do re: touring.

Chris249
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby Chris249 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:40 pm

Further detail on the "bunch rides" and mountain bike trails would surely be just as important (a bunch ride to the coffee shop with casual friends is different from a hard 100km hitout with A Graders) - but doesn't the OP's first post give a pretty good flavour of what he's after? It doesn't read as if he's going to do three month tours (although of course even if he did, he could still do it on a CX).
Kestrel Talon road 2007
Como Vivente road 2009
Principia track track 2014
Cervelo P2K TT 2003
Merida CX4 2010
Concaeio road

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silentbutdeadly
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby silentbutdeadly » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:17 pm

IanC wrote:Bunch rides, road touring, rough gravel roads, green (easy) MTB trails - 1 bike and 2 sets of wheels/tyres. Can it work?


Yep. Niner RLT 9. Especially the latest version.

If you have the coin then a Flying Machine from Perth would be my titanium bling choice...
Ours is not to reason why...merely to point and giggle

IanC
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby IanC » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:56 pm

OP... I guess that's me. Bunch rides - I don't road race but my mates who do are about D grade. I don't try to win the sprints - just take a turn at the front occasionally when it notches up to 40kph and get back on the back when done. MTB trails - for anyone who has done the Paluma push rec course that is about as technical as I'd ride a CX on. Fantastic rainforest ride on back country gravel roads and some non technical single trail. I'll leave the rock gardens, drop offs etc to my stumpy. I hear of lots of flowing single trail in NZ that might appeal on a CX. As for touring, I expect 2 weeks would be as much as my dear touring companion will let me get away with!

Thanks for all the feedback! There seem to be two camps - the CXrs who do a bit of touring and the serious tourers. The views of both are interesting and informative. I'd forgotten about the flying machine -will check that out next.

tmac100
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby tmac100 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:24 am

baabaa wrote:Hey tmac read the topic question........


Yup! We all ride in our own ways. No point in passing judgement on a bicyclist's idiosyncrasy or circumstances - is there? Yee Haw :D

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Thoglette
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby Thoglette » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:29 am

This looks like my next do-it-all bike (if I win lotto and cash in before the better half finds it)
Specialised Diverge plus extras. Yes I know it's not CroMo but it's so pretty
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RonK
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby RonK » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:34 am

The Diverge is a nice bike if you can live with the proprietary wheelset.

I don't think the Jan Heine treatment does anything for it at all.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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baabaa
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby baabaa » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:25 pm


tmac100
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby tmac100 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:39 am

baabaa wrote:Stefan and Max are on to it....
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/8b ... -road-bike

Oh yawn! Anythng to make money and entertain themselves! Reversible plastic surgery - on a bicycle!

Pardon my traditional way of thinking, but I DO LIKE the way individual things are: I like to ride an Indian-made "old" bicycle based on the Raleighs/Rudges from the 1930s. I like riding my Arvon1 tourer while touring Australia. I like my "city" bike (actually a Chinese 18 speed). I like them for what they are and do not want to switch them in any way for a different "purpose"

Similarly, I like my custom made cotton shirts. I like my t-shirts from Lands End. They all have their places and I do not want to think of using one of them in place of the other.

Nah! waste of money in my opinion. However others will be "captivated" with the novel (?) idea of one bike having many uses. Now how could these guys "make" a Rolls (or even a Camry :roll: ) do the same "thing" as my Pajero when I go out camping in the Qatari or UAE desert? Nope- won't work. But that is just my opinion.

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baabaa
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby baabaa » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:59 pm

Tmac, sounds like you should do a tour of the Hero Bicycle factory in Amritsar. They build bikes with frames so solid you can lug 75 kilos of rice in sacks on racks and hanging off top tube and handlebars.
I just don’t do that and really don’t know anyone here in Oz that does or wants to. The factory is fantastic, the wheel building room being my favourite. Anyway a hero bike would be nice to have but I doubt I would ever ride it so that would be just wasteful consumption.

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il padrone
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:18 pm

Yes. But that is the whole point being made. Horses for courses.
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Calvin27
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Re: One bike to ride them all

Postby Calvin27 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:32 pm

You can get away with minor crossover. For example my road bike will do gravel, the graveller will do choppy fireroad, the XC will do downhill. They can do more than you'd expect but then it stops being fun. I can do choppy fire road on the roadies, but it's uncomfortable. Single track o nthe graveller is ok, but it's more fighting the bike than flow. XC will do downhill, but yeah the geometry makes it seem like it wants to kill me.

I think for you uses (mostly road and touring) it should be ok.
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