Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

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baabaa
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby baabaa » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:49 pm

So, which make and species of rear hubs / wheels and skewer?
Seems weird as I can swap four different brands of hubs between bikes with maybe just a half a twist of a in line adjuster.
Is the rear axle and skewer snug in the dropouts and opens and closes with ease but then the lever is closed kinda firmish?

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:09 pm

Hi Baabaa,

Wheel is 29" H Plus Son with 36 spokes. Hub is Shimano XT with standard QR, 135mm (?) and 6 bolt mount. Wheel was built by Craftworks. IS to PM adaptor is supplied by TRP.

I put another wheel and still had the same problem which leads me to believe it is either the adaptor or alternator/frame problem.

I may also cross post this with the technical area if that doesn't break any rules.

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baabaa
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby baabaa » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:27 pm

Agree any wheel built by that lot with those bits will be fine. No fancy rotors?

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:18 pm

No. just the standard TRP one

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RonK
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:20 pm

Well, I'm out of ideas. I've had a close look at my dropouts but can't see anywhere things could go wrong. I guess my setup is slightly different because I'm not using the standard alternator QR plates - I'm using 142mmx12mm through-axle plates. But really putting it all together was so simple I just can't imagine where you could go wrong.

My only other suggestion would be to make sure you have fitted everything up according to the ALTERNATOR DROPOUT INSTRUCTIONS.

It's my understanding that it's common practice to use shims for IS mount calipers and they come in various thicknesses. I've never heard of anyone doing that with an IS to Post Mount adapter and I'm surprised that the caliper mounting holes don't allow enough lateral adjustment.

But I can't foresee any problem with fitting Disc Brake Caliper Shims under the adapter. And I know it's not a problem to fit the Syntace shims under the disc - I use them myself.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:48 am

Thanks Ron and everyone,

I will get some Syntace shims for the short term. I will also double check the dropout instructions which I have been following. I have emailed Salsa.

Maybe it is a storm in a teacup!

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:08 am

A final thought - I think the the adapter has one end marked top. Check it is oriented correctly.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:11 am

Thanks Ron, checked that. I wish I had been that silly!

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:23 am

The adapter is marked F or R, so you must have the right adapter, and the mark must face out.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:40 am

If the wheel fits in the dropout correctly, I think a frame problem unlikely, but maybe the top of the dropout is leaning outward.

You should be able to check this by measuring the distance between the alternator plates at the top and bottom bolts.

I'll assemble the standard alternator plate I removed with a spare TRP IS to Post Mount adapter and check the alignment against the Fargo dropout - when I get home tonight.

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baabaa
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby baabaa » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:09 am

And maybe try here as well
http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/
Very dumb question, but you are using the correct size adapter, marked as a 160 with a 160mm rotor and not a 160 with a 180mm rotor...

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:09 pm

RonK wrote:The adapter is marked F or R, so you must have the right adapter, and the mark must face out.

Well - this is confusing to say the least.

I'm looking at a spare TRP IS to PM adapter. It is actually marked F180/R160 on one side, and UP on the other. Looking at it closely it is hard to tell, but there does seem to be a small amount of offset.

According to the Spyke installation instructions, quote: "For IS to PM adapters, hold the adapter so that the stamped “F” or “R” is facing you – away from the bike, rotor and wheel". However if you fit it this then the UP mark would be at the bottom.

So I took a close look at my bike, and I have UP at the top and on the outside, while F180/R160 is at the bottom, inside.

So assuming you have the same adapter, check you have installed this way.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:42 pm

Thanks once again Baabaa and Ron,

My Spyke instructions are different to yours. They say "For IS or PM adaptors,hold the adapter so the stamped "UP" is oriented upwards". There is no mention of orienting with respect to size label. I have the adapter installed the same way as yours.

Baabaa I believe I am using the correct size adaptor using a F203/R180 for rear 180mm disc.

I have temporarily installed around 1.6mm of washers/shims on the caliper with the brakes now working perfectly. I will order a couple shims for the rotor and move on I think.

I tested the front wheel this evening with everything working perfectly so at least I have had one win.

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:16 pm

Hi Everyone,

I swapped the IS-PM mount with a Magura one with the rubbing disappearing. The Magura adaptor is around half a millimetre thicker.

I am after a bit of further advice. I went to route the gear cable and noticed the bike doesn't have downtube cable stops. It has these instead which I think add versatility if you want to use downtube shifters.

Image

Does anyone have any recommendations for cable stops?

Thanks

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:51 pm

Did you Google? Cable stops don't usually come with a frame - they are part of a groupset, and fit onto the bosses in your photo.

There a any number of them on the web. These CSN Downtube Cable Stops from Ribble are cheap as chips.

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:47 pm

Thanks Ron,

They didn't come with my XT groupset as I gather they are more for road bikes. I did google but was wondering if anyone had any suggestions in terms of performance. By the look of it they all perform just as well. I can get dura-ace one sfor $42 or the CSN for $8. I will stick with the CSN!

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:02 pm

Hi

Just wondering what people think of Ergon gp3 grips? I used to have bar ends in the nineties and miss them

Thanks

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:36 pm

Not much. Flat bars and Ergon grips last tour left me with nerve damage and numb fingers for s month.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby Wingnut » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:50 pm

uad782 wrote:Hi

Just wondering what people think of Ergon gp3 grips? I used to have bar ends in the nineties and miss them

Thanks


I went the cork version without the bar ends...loved them, so good but I've now gone to drop bars on my Surly...

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:31 pm

Hi Everyone,
A few more questions/comments if I may. Build is going well. Comments:
[*] To solve the rear brake alignment issue I butchered some ring terminals and placed them as thin shims on the calliper side.
[*] I am uncertain if I have the cockpit set up. Photos below with any comments appreciated. On my MTB's the bar are riser bars. The Salsa ones don't appear to be riser bars.

[*] I am uncertain about what seatpost to get. Should I get a setback one or not. I hear that a setback one is better with a Brooks saddle. My MTB's seem to use a cheap FSA seatpost that is sort of set back.
[*] I am having trouble getting an Alternator Low Rider rear rack. Most of the web shops don't sell them or postage is a killer. I have emailed details to LBS twice after talking to them. They say they forgot and to email details again.
[*] The Spyke brakes had a lot of play between the calipers and rotor so I adjusted them using the adjusters on the side. The only one pad that didn't need adjusting was the rear rotor side pad.

Thanks again.

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A rough photo showing setback(?) on one of my MTB's

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:41 pm

I can't really comment about you cockpit setup, that's really an individual thing - but I don't see anything wrong about it. If the bars are at a comfortable height then it doesn't matter that they are not riser bars - and it will probably be easier to attach a handlebar bag to straight bars.

Brooks saddles have very short rails, i.e. not much range of adjustment. So it's important to choose the right seat post, but a setback post is not automatically the best choice. I'm using a setback post on the Fargo, but it has a very short reach. The Marrakesh is a more conventional frame and the reach is longer.

My guess is a straight seat post would likely be the better option - but why don't you borrow the seat post from your MTB and try the fit. A Thomson Elite is a good middle of the road seat post and would be in keeping with the quality of the other components you have selected.

I bought a Tubus Vega Classic for the Fargo. The 26"/28" version is 50mm taller than the Alternator Low Rider. It doesn't look ridiculously tall on the Fargo, but then I use 42mm or larger tyres. If you decide to fit a Tubus rack you will also need to get a Salsa Lower Mount Kit.

However the standard Alternator rack is only 20mm taller and probably wouldn't be very noticeable, so if you can't get a low rider I think the standard rack would be ok.

Yeah, I adjusted the pads on my Spyres too - it improved the feel greatly.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:38 pm

Thanks again Ron.

With your tubus rack, did you have to widen the legs much to get it to fit the alternator dropouts? I would prefer a tubus rack over salsa but the alternator dropouts are so wide. BTW I already have a rack mounting kit which I got from bike24.

The std alternator specs says it only supports 15 kg while the low rider supports 27 kg. We have already discussed this and I am really surprised to find such a difference. They appear to be both made of the same material. I don't think that this difference is possible.

Also any suggestions for a front rack? I gather it doesn't need to be salsa. I have an old Blackburn low rider which has served me well.

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:31 pm

If you want to have a rack with a low rider mount, either the Logo or the Cosmo are the best choices. I prefer the Ergo for the front. I don't much like the Tara or the Duo because they have larger diameter tubes and the Ortlieb lower pannier hooks don't play nicely with them.

Actually on my tourer I have a matching stainless steel Nova/Cosmo combination - the Nova was the stainless steel version of the Ergo but unfortunately it has been discontinued.

I think an Ergo/Logo Classic would be a good combination. If you look at the 26"/28" Logo Classic dimension drawing you will see that the allowed width at the dropouts is 180mm. The Logo Classic is the same design as the Vega Classic I have, but with the lowrider rails added.

Measure the width of the dropouts at the top bolt - on the Fargo it is 182mm. So I would have no hesitation in fitting a Tubus rack. Make sure you get the classic though - the Evo mount is only allowed 170mm dropout spacing.

I can't think of any reason for the different load ratings on the Salsa racks. It doesn't much matter anyway I think - to me it would make no sense to carry more than 15 kg on the rear rack.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:09 am

The Australian Salsa distributor has changed to the same as Surly now. Salsa service seems to have plummeted. I rang the new distributor regarding getting the Salsa rack I wanted. This distributor could not give me a RRP. They only order once a month from Salsa and it takes 6-8 weeks to get into the country as they ship by sea. The earliest I could have it is mid to late March.

The previous Salsa distributor only took 10 days to get me my Salsa frame.

I will definitely be buying offshore now.

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:04 pm

Hi Everyone,

In case anyone is interested here is the final build of the Marrakesh. It just needs some racks.

It shifts sooooo smoothly! It also rides the fastest of any of my mountain bikes. I have never had such a speedy bike.

Thanks for everyone's input (esp RonK!)
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