Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

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Warin
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby Warin » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:45 am

}SkOrPn--7 wrote:Andrew I love your frame colour it just hits the mark and nice brakes I use them as well for me a big improvement over BB7's. I noticed that you have a broken wire on your brake cable something I do is get super thin CA clue from the model store are apply a 2" length of the stuff in the area of the pinch bolt on the cable.


I solder the ends. Stronger than glue, weighs more though. Can be filed, cut and the solder still holds things together.

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby Aushiker » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:41 am

Warin wrote:I solder the ends. Stronger than glue, weighs more though. Can be filed, cut and the solder still holds things together.


You haven't seen my soldering skills :)
Andrew
~ Aushiker.com

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:41 pm

Hi,

I am after a bit of advice regarding wheel builders. I contacted a local builder who wanted $550 to build me two wheels. I supply the hubs, he the spokes and h plus son rims. Looking at Chain Reaction I could get both rims for $190 and the spokes for $100. Does it cost $260 to build the wheel?

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby nezumi » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:09 pm

You're not just paying $260 for the time he will spend building the wheels.

You're paying $260 for the knowledge he has built up on how to build a wheel, how to ensure it is true, and for not having to do it yourself - as well as for not stuffing it up on your first go and trashing the $190 rims, $100 of spokes and the hubs.
2014 Merida Cyclo Cross 4
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:09 am

You raise some good points. I suppose it is along the lines of this!

A giant ship engine failed. The ship's owners tried one expert after
another, but none of them could figure but how to fix the engine.

Then they brought in an old man who had been fixing ships since he was a
young. He carried a large bag of tools with him, and when he arrived, he
immediately went to work. He inspected the engine very carefully, top to
bottom.

Two of the ship's owners were there, watching this man, hoping he would know
what to do. After looking things over, the old man reached into his bag and
pulled out a small hammer. He gently tapped something. Instantly, the engine
lurched into life. He carefully put his hammer away. The engine was fixed!

A week later, the owners received a bill from the old man for ten thousand
dollars.

"What?!" the owners exclaimed. "He hardly did anything!"
So they wrote the old man a note saying, "Please send us an itemized bill."

The man sent a bill that read:
Tapping with a hammer....................... $ 2.00
Knowing where to tap.......................... $ 9,998.00

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RonK
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:01 am

A small bike business would likely be charging significantly more than Wiggle prices for the components.
I don't remember exactly what my last wheel build cost, but I think it was just over $300 for spokes and labour.
I could have built them myself, but thought the money well spent on a pro build considering the harsh use they'll likely get.
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Warin
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby Warin » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:45 am

You'll also probably by 2 sets of spokes ..your first calculated length won't be right.
And grease/oil for the nipples, good spoke tool, wheel truing stand, spoke tension gauge.

Personally I use a spoke tension gauge, my own truing stand with 2 dial gauges (both X and Y directions - so I can see how far out things are before I start, when finished and after some miles of use). I only build wheels for myself, way too slow to give a reasonable $ value. If you are not prepared to do it yourself (and your fist build will cost more than you think) then pay the man.

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:31 pm

I'm convinced ...I will proceed with ordering

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baabaa
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby baabaa » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:16 pm

I'm convinced ...I will proceed with ordering

..... and could I suggest that if you do, that you ask your builder to also order some spare spokes and nipples? Cost added to the build is next to nothing and always good to have the same batch and brand of these as your wheelset.
Say, six to eight nipples, two to four front spokes and then same again of the gauge and length for each side rears. If you ask nicely they may even mark them with a length and possi so you will always have the right ones on hand for each trip.
By having gone to the effort of just having and then carting spare spokes really means you will never break a spoke......

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:36 pm

The acquisition of parts for my build is going well. A special thanks to Ronk for his posting as it is a great guide.

I have bought an xt 3x10 drivetrain group set, sp8x front Dynamo hub and xt rear hub. Brakes will be trp spykes from bike24 along with salsa handlebar. Wheels will be hill and sons archetype 36 hole.

Where I am at a loss is working out what size seat post and stem I should get. I would like the stem to be salsa. I have a few other mtbs so I was planning to build the bike with the above parts and take parts (stem and seat post) off my other bikes to trial.

I am also unsure about saddle. While a brooks saddle looks good I like my prologo saddle with the recess in the middle to protect my scranus (bikesnob term). Maybe a selle anatomica might be worth a try?

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:15 pm

You will need a 27.2mm x 350mm seatpost. The OEM seatpost is a Zoom - cheap but I'd go for a better quality Thompson Elite. I doubt you'll need any setback with the Marrakesh' relatively square geometry so a straight post should work.

Can't really help with the stem. Compare the overall length (ett + stem) with your current bike and make the best guess you can.

Saddle is a personal choice - you can of course get a Brooks with a cutout but use whatever works for you.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:49 pm

Thanks Ron

I have been reviewing the Brooks website and am confused at their range. Do the numbers mean anything such as C13, C15 &c17 ?

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:24 pm

uad782 wrote:Thanks Ron

I have been reviewing the Brooks website and am confused at their range. Do the numbers mean anything such as C13, C15 &c17 ?

Yes, absolutely. Saddles prefixed 'B' are leather saddles. Those prefixed 'C' are the new Cambium rubber-based saddles which have become very popular since they were released a couple of years ago.

The traditional touring saddle is the B17, of which there are many variants, but the Cambium range has rapidly become popular, probably because they don't take as much breaking in as the leather saddles, they are not affected by water, and have a modern-retro look.

I'll be using a C17 on my Fargo.

This blog post is a little dated but gives a little more detailed explaination of Brooks models.

Decoding Brooks’ Saddle Model Designations
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:49 pm

Thanks Ron,

Interesting reading. I found this on the Cambium. http://www.brooksengland.com/cambium/. I will get one!

I am wondering about the stem length. If I bought the Marrakesh equipped it would come with an Effective Top Tube of 610mm with a stem of 90mm = 700mm.

My current hardtail has an ETT of 620mm with 110mm stem = 730mm (it feels slightly long). A stem of 90mm seems quite short. I will buy a Salsa 100mm stem unless Salsa are measuring the length differently.

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:30 pm

According to the numbers you posted, your hardtail has a significantly taller stack than the Marrakesh, and this effectively shortens the reach. We discussed all this earlier in the thread.
So I would think hard before making the stem longer. Particularly if you are going with drop bars.
Last edited by RonK on Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby avolve » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:34 pm

uad782 wrote:Thanks Ron,

Interesting reading. I found this on the Cambium. http://www.brooksengland.com/cambium/. I will get one!

I am wondering about the stem length. If I bought the Marrakesh equipped it would come with an Effective Top Tube of 610mm with a stem of 90mm = 700mm.

My current hardtail has an ETT of 620mm with 110mm stem = 730mm (it feels slightly long). A stem of 90mm seems quite short. I will buy a Salsa 100mm stem unless Salsa are measuring the length differently.


I have a C17 on my Cannondale T2000. Having ridden split/otherwise separated seats (non uniform padding across the width), I am leaning towards a C17 carved (hopefuly trade with someone).

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:03 pm

Thanks Ron

I bit the bullet and (again) copied you, buying a Thompson x4 90mm stem. I remember discussing the effects of stack on reach. If it doesn't work out well I will eBay it. I am planning to use salsa flat bars, the ones normally specced on the complete build.

I have been riding bikes for over 25 years and have only ridden a drop bar bike once! That was enough to to keep me on mtb's.

I also ordered a brooks c17 with the opening. Like avolve I do like the relief for the scranus.

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:38 pm

Hi

Got a box full of goodies from Bike24 today :)

I ordered two sets of Trp spkyes and note I have been supplied two rear sets. I only ordered the calliper and disc. Does it really make any difference as that is all that is on trp's website?

Thanks

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:19 pm

What makes you think they are rears? The Spyres are universal. I don't see why the Spykes would be any different.

In my kits there are the caliper, rotor, two adapters and bolts.

No adapter is required for the front if you got the right size rotor.

Make sure you read the alternator instructions on the Salsa web site to mount the rear adapter correctly.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:40 pm

Thanks Ron

I too thought they were universal when ordering however the Spyke package says rear. I've opened one packet and they look very nice.

I am about to send my hubs sp8x and XT rear to craftworx. Once wheels are back I will start assembling. That's for the warning about the alternator dropouts.

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:41 am

Just checked the package for my Spyres and it says front and rear, so must be some difference.
Aushiker is using Spykes so maybe he can say what it is.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:21 pm

The front/rear is as follows... In my case I have the 180mm rotor which means the IS adaptor mount will fit 180mm rotors on the front but if you are to use that same front IS mount on the rear it will only allow 160mm rotors on the rear. If you wish to use 2 180mm rotors front and back your going to have to select the 180mm rear adaptor in the package. The IS adaptor mount is stamped right next to the bolt mount hold with this information on it.

Ricky

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:03 pm

Thanks Ron and Ricky

I bought 180mm for both front and back as this matches my 29er wheels. I may need some more advice when the time comes to install in a couple of weeks

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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby RonK » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:22 pm

The Marrakesh is specified with 160mm rotors - perfectly adequate for a touring bike. I think a 180mm rotor is overkill.

Also I think I recall some discussion in a previous thread about spoke clearance problems with larger rotors. Hard to find now that search doesn't work properly. I took the precaution of buying some disc spacers just in case.

Ah - found the thread. The problem was actually brake shudder with the large (180mm) rotors, and spoke clearance with the small (160mm) rotors.

The front caliper uses a post mount and since you have rear brake sets you will need a suitable A11 20mm adapter in order to use a 180mm rotor. According to TRP this is included in 180mm kits, but if yours are rear only they may not be included (TRP make no mention of separate front/rear kits).

If you used a 160mm rotor then no adapter would be necessary. The Salsa fork has post mounts for 160mm rotors.
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Re: Surly vs Soma vs Salsa

Postby uad782 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:28 pm

Thanks Ron

I contacted Trp who says their calliper/mount fits front or back which is good. You are correct though regarding needing a spacer. The calliper came with two is/pm adapters. The calliper looks like it is PM so I can only guess that the adapters are to convert is to pm.

With regards to a spacer. Can I buy any 20mm pm spacer or does it need to be trp? Or could I just get 2 shimano 160mm rotors instead?

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