Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

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Drizt
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Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:11 pm

Hi All,

I'm planning on putting together a gravel / light touring bike to travel around with my wife. My wife is use to SRAM so we are looking into SRAM 1x11 options for her Salsa Vaya Ti -> viewtopic.php?f=77&t=93124

I'm not a fan of SRAM so I'll be looking at Shimano options.

Ideally I was going to look at Ultegra Di2 hydro shifters with 1x chain ring and XT di2 clutched rear derailleur. Haven't quite found a low priced frame that suits... anyone have any suggestions here?

In the interest of keeping prices down I started having a look at mechanical gears (hard for me as all my bikes are di2). Has anyone had any experience with the Tanpan adapter?

I've come up with a bit of a parts list and was hoping to get some feedback.

All-City Space Horse Disc (probably size 52 or 55 - standover might be an issue with 55)
http://allcitycycles.com/bikes/space_horse_disc

R685 mechanical gears / hydro brakes
http://www.wiggle.com.au/shimano-rs685- ... ifter-set/

Ultegra 6800 crank
http://www.wiggle.com.au/shimano-ultegr ... -chainset/

Wolf Tooth 1x chain ring for ultegra crank
http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/coll ... ano-cranks

Wolf Tooth 1x chain ring bolts
http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/coll ... uts-for-1x

Tanpan 11sp adapter
http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/coll ... cts/tanpan

XTR shadow Rear Derailleur
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/e ... prod119763
Last edited by Drizt on Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

koshari
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby koshari » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:22 pm

i take it your committed to using 11 speed road shifters?

are you going drop bars or flats?

Has anyone had any experience with the Tanpan adapter?

The Tanpan just looks like any of the other "travel agents" around,pretty foolproof by design. I imagine your familiar with the principle? they have 2 diameters on the one axis which alters the cable travel by a ratio determined by the circumference difference of the 2 surfaces. they are pretty much fool proof, the only real show stopper is clearance of the cabling at the adapter from the frame or potential external damage.

I personally haven't used one before but did a bit of reading up on them a while ago before settling on a zee RD-M640 1x10 setup on my 26er.
Technically speaking the Zee range are a crossover downhill/cross country/freeride range but they aren't a great deal heavier than the XTR M986 and about half the price. (215g Vs 271g)


EDIT: just checked your "Space Horse" Link and it would seem you are contemplating going with ST-5800 road drop shifters.

what is the reason you want to use the shadow RD? are you seeking the clutch function? i reckon with a a narrow wide front chainring and a chainguide you would be pretty right on most terrain?
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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:12 pm

Definitely committed to drop bars, not a fan of flat bars at all.

Nah, defintely going hydro disc shifters. -> http://www.wiggle.com.au/shimano-rs685- ... maustralia

Regarding rear derailleur, XT or XTR, as long as it is clutched.

I'm pretty keen on trying the clutch rear derailleur otherwise I'd just stick with 50/34 x 11-32 road double groupset. I hate the chain slap on my commuter with the same combo so I want to try clutched to solve that issue.

If I could find a frameset like the space horse disc with di2 internal routing holes, I'd probably just go that way. Having trouble finding something that isn't multiple 1000's. I was trying to keep the costs down somewhat as this is going to be my 4th bike. I just need a suitable gravel / light tourer (40c+ tyres + racks + fenders)

koshari
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby koshari » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:22 pm

Drizt wrote:I'm pretty keen on trying the clutch rear derailleur otherwise I'd just stick with 50/34 x 11-32 road double groupset. I hate the chain slap on my commuter with the same combo so I want to try clutched to solve that issue.


Roger that, i can vouch for the reduction in chain slap regarding the clutch, last time i took the 26er out i got about 100 metes down the road and it was so obvious i had the clutch off when freewheeling, promptly dismounted , clicked the clutch on and and put it out of my mind,

i actually had a couple of chain drops that ride last week which puzzled me, on closer roadside inspection i found that a rock had flicked up and bent one of the narrow front chainring teeth and it was throwing the chain, fortunately there was a nice piece of bluemetal on the roadside to tap that tooth back into alignment.

good luck with the setup, iam sure it will be pretty sweet.
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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:11 pm

Cheers, thanks for all the advice.

Thinking it is a good plan, time will tell.

Found another possible 1x chain ring option
https://wickwerks.com/products/cyclocro ... t-singles/

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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby cancan64 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:36 am

I am running Shimano Di2 1x xtr clutched 11 on my CX, gravel grind, bike packing and sometimes road bike. Works well. I have the shifters set as mirror of each other, was in a CX race and fingers were frozen...I had no feeling in right fingers and just in left so used left shifter until I could feel with my right and switched.
On the road I switch the clutch off but off road or gravel or just crap roads the clutch is on.
I like the simplicity of the 1x11 system... you just go up and down the gears not worrying about cross chaining or whats happening on the front.... much smoother changes when starting up hill than most in group rides... just have bigger gaps. running 50 front and 11/40 rear so have most gears covered
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RonK
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby RonK » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:37 pm

More options for wide-narrow chainrings and 11-42 cassettes at Interloc Racing Designs.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby RonK » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:40 pm

cancan64 wrote:On the road I switch the clutch off but off road or gravel or just crap roads the clutch is on.

Curious why you would make the effort to do this. Does having the clutch on with Shimano make shifting heavier?

The SRAM derailleur I'm using doesn't have an option to switch the clutch off, but I don't detect any effect on shifting performance.
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koshari
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby koshari » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:36 pm

I generally leave the clutch on. Only had it off the other day as i had the rear wheel off beforehand.
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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:27 pm

I've decided to go about it a little differently.... going with a micro compact 2x

Now just need to work out which SP dyno hub is the right one for my needs. And then select a good rear hub to suit. Any suggestions welcome.


Frameset All City - Space Horse Disc size 52
headset Chris King
stem Zipp 100mm 6 degress
handlebars Zipp SL 70 40cm centre to centre
seat post Thompson Elite
saddle Specialised Romin Evo gel
crankset FSA SL-K ADVENTURE 46/30 170mm
Bottom bracket FSA MEGAEVO ROAD
pedals Shimano XTR trail
Brifters / brakes RS685 Brifters & Hydro Disc
front derailleur Shimano Ultregra 6800
rear derailleur Shimano Ultregra 6800 - short cage
casette Shimano Ultregra 6800 - 11-28
chain KMC
front rim H Plus Son - The Hydra 32h
rear rim H Plus Son - The Hydra 36h
front hub SP Dyno 8
rear hub ???
Dyno Light B&M IQ-X

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find_bruce
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby find_bruce » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:55 pm

Drizt wrote:Now just need to work out which SP dyno hub is the right one for my needs.
32 hole makes your choices easy.

What axle - 15mm thru axle with an option for 9mm = PD8X. Only comes with 6 bolt disc, choice of black or silver

Just 9 mm QR gives you a choice of how you want to mount your disc - 6 bolt (PD-8) or centre lock (PL-8) ?

Black & silver are common, red is available in PD-8, blue is listed for PD-8 but I haven't seen it in stock anywhere.

Best prices I have found have been from Germany - Bike 24 or Bike Components

Bike components currently have grey R685 mechanical gears / hydro brakes for half the price of Wiggle ~$534 + shipping

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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:09 pm

Cheers,

Space horse disc is quick release front and rear.

Any suggestions on a good rear hub to match?

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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby RonK » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:58 pm

find_bruce wrote:What axle - 15mm thru axle with an option for 9mm = PD8X. Only comes with 6 bolt disc, choice of black or silver.

This is the better choice. As well as the flexibility of using either axle, the PD8-X is more efficient according to the charts on the SP site.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:37 am

What is this option of 9mm you speak of? I'll need to look at the SP site in more detail.

Seems the FSA adventure 46/30 won't be available till May-June. So might change up the plans a little

Praxis Alba 48/32
https://www.praxiscycles.com/product/alba-m30/
and
Ultegra GS 11-32

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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:41 am

Hmmm, Praxis have another 48/32 option too -> https://www.praxiscycles.com/product/zayante-m30-build/

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RonK
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:05 am

Drizt wrote:What is this option of 9mm you speak of? I'll need to look at the SP site in more detail.

What he means is the PD8-X can be used with either a 15mm through axle or a standard QR skewer.
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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:11 am

RonK wrote:
Drizt wrote:What is this option of 9mm you speak of? I'll need to look at the SP site in more detail.

What he means is the PD8-X can be used with either a 15mm through axle or a standard QR skewer.


Cheers. Found the reference on the site.
Converter axle for 8X

Only add a converter axle, you can put 8X dynamo on both QR15 and 9mm QR folk. The 8X is ideal for QR15. For extra value, we provide a converter axle that adapts it from QR15 to standard 9mm QR fork. TOP

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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby find_bruce » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:57 pm

RonK wrote:
find_bruce wrote:What axle - 15mm thru axle with an option for 9mm (as RonK clarified standard QR skewer) = PD8X. Only comes with 6 bolt disc, choice of black or silver.

This is the better choice. As well as the flexibility of using either axle, the PD8-X is more efficient according to the charts on the SP site.
The efficiency improvement is measurable, but I doubt if any user would notice - I can't even tell if the dynamo is connected or not.

The only real downside to the PD8X is the price ~A$120 for the PD8, ~A$165 for the PD8X (at bike components, A$225 from Bike 24). The prices have changed a bit over time, with the premium for the PD8X dropping slowly.

Other differences that might matter to some is that there are more limited choices for the PD8X - doesn't seem to be available in 28h, only available in silver & black, only available with 6 bolt disc. None of which bother me, but each to their own.

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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:06 pm

Yeah, the input wattage required varies by 1w between 8 and 8x.

The 8 comes in QR and centre lock ready to go. At $120 it is pretty damn cheap.

The 8x does come in centrelock.
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:26 pm

Drizt wrote:The 8x does come in centrelock.
Image

And is also ready to go - the converter is just a dummy 15mm axle with a 9mm drilling - a simple slide-in slide-out affair.
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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:28 pm

Does the spare 9mm QR axle come with the 8x or do you have to order it separately ?

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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:29 pm

Comes with it.
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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:29 pm

Sweet. Thanks for the help.

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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:20 pm

RonK wrote:
Drizt wrote:The 8x does come in centrelock.
Image

And is also ready to go - the converter is just a dummy 15mm axle with a 9mm drilling - a simple slide-in slide-out affair.

Image
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Drizt
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Re: Shimano gearing options for Gravel / Light Touring

Postby Drizt » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:22 pm

Cool. Thanks.

Wish the Son 28 15mm thru axle came in centre lock.

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