Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Trevtassie
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Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Trevtassie » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:46 pm

So here is my assessment of the Rohloff.
Things I like:
The gear changing. So convenient when touring. Gotta suddenly cross the road when a foot path ends, no problems. Suddenly feel the need to go up that steep ramp...ditto.
Things I don't like:
Dragging a brick behind me all the time. Seriously, the amount of drag is ludicrous. On a downhill it's equivalent to around 2-3%. My partner and I always used to play the rolly game. Start at the top of a pass and I'd shoot off into the distance. Now she's on my hammer all the time. I've gotta pedal. Like having the brakes on.
That brings to me the second issue, the restricted gear range. If I have to pedal, it'd be nice to not spin out, but if I'm geared for a 12% slope then I run out of gears pretty quick.

Summary: If you happen to score one at a great price like I did, and you ride with someone slower than you it's worthwhile, but otherwise save your money for plane tickets.

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RonK
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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby RonK » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 am

Trevtassie wrote:...save your money for plane tickets.

:D :D :D
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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby brumby33 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:34 am

I wonder how a pinion drive would compare with a Rohloff Hub....i don't think it'd be much difference pricewise but it looks be incorporate during the frame build.
Awaiting for a review of this pinion drive gearing system by Darren Alff of bicycletouring.com as he is putting this new system through its paces up in Finland above the Artic circle as I type.
He has the 18 speed.

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rifraf
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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby rifraf » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:03 pm

Trevtassie wrote:So here is my assessment of the Rohloff.
Things I like:
The gear changing. So convenient when touring. Gotta suddenly cross the road when a foot path ends, no problems. Suddenly feel the need to go up that steep ramp...ditto.
Things I don't like:
Dragging a brick behind me all the time. Seriously, the amount of drag is ludicrous. On a downhill it's equivalent to around 2-3%. My partner and I always used to play the rolly game. Start at the top of a pass and I'd shoot off into the distance. Now she's on my hammer all the time. I've gotta pedal. Like having the brakes on.
That brings to me the second issue, the restricted gear range. If I have to pedal, it'd be nice to not spin out, but if I'm geared for a 12% slope then I run out of gears pretty quick.

Summary: If you happen to score one at a great price like I did, and you ride with someone slower than you it's worthwhile, but otherwise save your money for plane tickets.

How many kms have you clocked up on it?
Its well reported to have a run in period before freeing up.

My experience is different with regards drag, but happy to acknowledge yours.

I've found it to be an acquired taste, but over all, I can say I've acquired it.

Happy to acknowledge its not going to be everyones cup of tea and I was surprised at how unlike a magic carpet ride it was for the initial outlay as I expected it to be different.

I dont tend to pedal downhill so it really does suit my style of touring but for those that do I can understand some frustration.
15.3 (I think gear inches) to 80 really seems to suit my meandering and my top gear will never be used.

I do appreciate the lack of derailleur and the need for any "tuning" whilst on tour.

I also think the "investment" subtracts somewhat from the joys of ownership due to some paranoia about it getting stolen.

But....., I'm not sorry I own one and won't be parting with it by choice.

Happy spinning :)
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Trevtassie » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:47 pm

I wouldn't need to pedal, but the drag is so great I have too. Otherwise my partner passes me. I normally go down hills like a ballistic missle. Get into a tuck and see if I can catch any cars on the corners. I had her on my hammer in a tunnel today, "go faster or I'll need to brake“ and I'm “I'm already sprinting, I dinna can do no more cap'n, I'm gonna blow"
How many more thousands of kilometres before it loosens up, I've just done 2500.
I think I'll use it on a fat bike and get a 3x9 set up.

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Trevtassie » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:07 pm

That being said, I was Chief bike wrangler at Davis Station last year, and Rohloffs would be ideal, get some of those KMC galvanised chains and things would last a lot longer.

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Trevtassie » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:42 pm

Trevtassie wrote:That being said, I was Chief bike wrangler at Davis Station last year, and Rohloffs would be ideal, get some of those KMC galvanised chains and things would last a lot longer.

Wellllll, I just discovered how crap those Z8RB chains are. Either that or Rohloff sprockets are made of cheese. Gotta replace the sprocket (or at least turn it around) on the Rohloff already. Damn chain is stretched beyond belief and the sprocket is shot after 2200km. Missus's normal Z8 chain is fine after the same distance.

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby brumby33 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:47 pm

I had the opportunity to ride a new Vivente with drop bars and Rolhoff hub and quite frankly hated it.
It wasn't so much the drag of the hub I hated but the very notchy gear changing knob on the side of the stem and the scraping of the chain inside the guard. They didn't have a belt drive version so can't compare....it was that hideous gear change knob that turned me off.
I'm about to order the Patagonia with barend shifters and hydraulic brakes which felt by far the best set up for me.
I was torn between the Deccan with brifters and mech. Discs but after a lengthy chat with Noel Mcfarlane , he rested my mind about the hydraulic brakes as he swears by them. The barend shifters were easier to use than I thought.
As of today Noel is on his way to Sth Africa for a 3 week tour. (Lucky bugger).

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:02 pm

Don't know how much drag there is on a Rohloff but I found drag on a brand new Nuvinci n360 but since running it's has got better but which has more I wouldn't know. Just lifting and holding the darn thing you can feel the weight but I don't notice it when riding. Even a Sturmey Archer hub has drag you can pick up on but for me plodding along it's not something that is in my mind it tends to go away and forgotten about.

Ricky

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Leaf T
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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Leaf T » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:23 am

I notice drag in the Rohloff too Trev but it sounds like yours is excessive. Playing around with the axle tightness might improve it a little. I recall people saying they take up to 5000k's to fully bed in. Which is also the first oil change if it's not been 12 months.

Not an ideal comparison but when I first went Rohloff I noticed riding took a little bit more effort going from my Surly LHT with 700x35 marathons to the Rohloff driven Thorn Raven Tour with 26x2" Duremes. I've since used the 1.6 Supremes and it improved a little but I still think there is a small amount of drag in the hub. I wonder if I would buy it again if I had that choice but there is a lot to like about it too. For year round commuting the low maintenance is perfect if you have a safe place to lock it. Pitlocks are a good investment.

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby rifraf » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:46 pm

Leaf T wrote: Pitlocks are a good investment.


Whilst I notice "buzz" particularly in gear 7, I don't equate it with drag as I've used IGH's for many years.

When I've tried to narrow down other users definition of "drag" it appears for many of them that its the feedback through the pedals and thus what I define as "buzz", but I'm not attempting to suggest that this is what you or anyone else is suggesting.

Certainly the the hub does not appear to freewheel for as long from a lift rear wheel and flick rotate test so there must be something "dragging" it slower.

I gave up on pitlocks with the thick Surly rear dropouts which offered up little by way of threaded rod and made me think snipping it up would pull what little thread was able to be used from the nut.

This was my experience in trying to use a similar lack of threaded rod in an Extrawheel trailers QR with trailer nuts.

I asked about pitlocks with regards to Ogres in the MTBR forum threads but have never had a response by anyone successfully utilising them.

My biggest bugbear with them was in fact trying to remember in which bloomin pannier, handlebar bag or saddlebag I'd last placed the "key" to unthread my front wheels dynohub pitlock.

Turned out it was inside my rack bag so imagine if you will the detritus spread out on the roadside in my frenzied search for said tool to do a puncture repair during a particularly drenching downpour on a wet day.

The air was somewhat blue and best defined as not my finest hour.
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Leaf T
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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Leaf T » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:36 pm

The pitlock is best suited to vertical drop outs I imagine. I keep the socket/key on an oversized heavy duty keyring which doubles as a lever. A suitable carabiner works too if you can find one.

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Warin
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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Warin » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:38 am

rifraf wrote:
Leaf T wrote: Pitlocks are a good investment.

My biggest bugbear with them was in fact trying to remember in which bloomin pannier, handlebar bag or saddlebag I'd last placed the "key" to unthread my front wheels dynohub pitlock.


Knowing me I'd loose the flamin thing on my travels. :oops: I'll stick with the allen key version - while not as secure it does mean this clutz should be able to pick up a replacement tool along the way. My thinking is;
    -amateur thieves wont have an allen key (knife, bolt cutters, hacksaw etc but not allen keys, shifter, screw driver)
    - if they find the wheel removal too difficult then they simply take the entire bike.

As for tools .. I'm trying to put them all it the same place - find one and you have found the rest.
Last edited by Warin on Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Trevtassie » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:19 pm

Just remember if you are using the new surly frames with Gnotboost and want to use tuggnuts you'll need a tandem length skewer - 185mm. Pretty well you need something like washers on the skewer anyway, because the axle slot is sized for a 12mm through axle, so there's not much meat for the QR to bite into.
With the drag, it's most noticeable free wheeling. I notice that the ratchet sound changes depending what gear you are in, so I suspect there is something whirling around inside pretty well all the time.

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Leaf T
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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Leaf T » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:29 pm

I suspect you are right. Try it in gear 11 as that is supposed to be the most efficient.

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Wingnut » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:30 am

rifraf wrote:
Leaf T wrote: Pitlocks are a good investment.


Whilst I notice "buzz" particularly in gear 7, I don't equate it with drag as I've used IGH's for many years.


I agree with this...the benefits of the Rohloff definitely outweigh the disadvantages which to me is the weight factor but that's it.

From what I have seen so far those that dislike the hubs tend to exaggerate their issues...

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Uncle Just » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:52 pm

From what I have seen so far those that dislike the hubs tend to exaggerate their issues...


Which could be equally levelled at those who exaggerate the difficulty of tuning a rear derailleur. If you can't install a cable and get the proper tension by simply turning a screw then by all means shell out thousands for a Rohloff. :roll:

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby RonK » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:27 pm

Uncle Just wrote:
From what I have seen so far those that dislike the hubs tend to exaggerate their issues...


Which could be equally levelled at those who exaggerate the difficulty of tuning a rear derailleur. If you can't install a cable and get the proper tension by simply turning a screw then by all means shell out thousands for a Rohloff. :roll:

Hehe - and just about every claim made about the virtues of Rohloff is an exageration. One valid claim - changing gears while stationary - is about it.
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Leaf T
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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Leaf T » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:29 pm

I used to hate cleaning my cassette in winter.

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Trevtassie » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:34 pm

Wingnut wrote:
rifraf wrote:
Leaf T wrote: Pitlocks are a good investment.


Whilst I notice "buzz" particularly in gear 7, I don't equate it with drag as I've used IGH's for many years.


I agree with this...the benefits of the Rohloff definitely outweigh the disadvantages which to me is the weight factor but that's it.

From what I have seen so far those that dislike the hubs tend to exaggerate their issues...

Now how, pray tell, so you explain the fact that of two identical bikes one Rohloff one derailleur, the derailleur bike rolls significantly faster than the Rohloff bike. So much so that the Rohloff rider is required to pedal down hill.

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby robbo mcs » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:39 pm

I have a Rohloff, and am a bit yeah, nah,yeah.

Likes :
Sequential shifting ie don't have to tax my brain by changing both a front and a rear :roll:
Easy to look after and maintain, especially with gates belt drive. Virtually no maintenence really
Changing gears when stopped
Weird looks you get from people on roadies when they are trying to work out how the hell your bike works, and then that extra look when you drop into 7th gear and it starts making strange noises :D

Dislikes
Weight. Especially that the weight is so much in the rear on a touring bike that is already heavy in the rear
Shifting on a drop bar does not have an elegant solution. A bit of a PITA, so I tend to grab two gears at once, or grind in a gear longer than I would normally
Drag. It is there, but for me doesn't seem as big as some have suggested in this thread
Having to momentarily cut back power to change gear

Neither here nor there
The noise : doesn't bother me at all
The dreaded shift into 7th. Doesn't seem to be a problem for me.
Gear range seems adequate to me at both ends

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Trevtassie » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:04 pm

The drag is definitely a thing, I originally got this for the missus viewtopic.php?f=12&t=92608
She rode it to work once and came home and said "NOPE it feels like the brakes are on, and it took me 20 minutes extra to get to work. Don't like it, take it off". I'm all like, you just need to get used to it.... and this was after a long discussion about who got it, which she won (naturally).
It really wasn't until we rode together that I realised that she was right.
I suspect nobody has ever done any drag testing other than for pedaling, because you just wouldn't think it was necessary.

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Leaf T
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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby Leaf T » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:51 pm

Could it just be your hub? Have you tried another? My opinion of the hub more or less aligns with Robbo's.

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Re: Rohloff, yeah, nah, yeah, nah.

Postby robbo mcs » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:53 pm

Leaf T wrote:Could it just be your hub? Have you tried another? My opinion of the hub more or less aligns with Robbo's.

I wonder about this as well.

I have a schmick carbon road bike as well as a Rohloff touring bike. The touring bike rolls down the hills pretty much as easily as the road bike. There is a small difference, probably a combination of aero and a small hub drag effect, but I certainly don't have to pedal down hills. Going up hills is a different thing, the tourer is hard work, but I think that might be substantial weight difference :wink:

My guesstimate is that the drag is probably in the same order as my generator, real, and definitely there, but not earth shattering.

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