New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

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rangersac
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New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby rangersac » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:21 am

So my dear old Claud Butler Sovereign frame has decided the rigors of daily commuting are too much to bear. Thus I am in the market for a new frame. Why post this in the touring section I hear you say? Well, I sport a rack, and often carry a decent amount of shopping, as well very occasionally use it for the odd credit card jaunt. Therefore I feel the touring brains trust are probably the wisest group to pick in terms of suitability.

So requirements as follows. Has to be able to put up with a 56km all weather daily commute with 700m vertical, on at times fairly choppy tarmac with a bit of gravel at the end. Pilot is no shrinking violet at 97kg, so plus pannier sees the average loaded weight at 100kg+. Preference is for a new steel frame (budget not big enough for Ti, and longevity considerations) as this is the fourth frame destroyed in six years so a warranty is looking nice! The ability to run 45C would be good for gravel travels, and as I'm going new I'll switch to discs, but will recycle what I can off the Claud. This being the Ultegra 6600/ Sugino XD600 triple drivetrain, rack, dyno lights, bars etc. Tossing up between TRP Spryes or BB7s for the brakes, and will need new hubs, so probably easiest to get a new wheelset with an SP dynohub fitted, as one of these has served me well on the Claud.

So far options I've researched include:

Velo Orange Pass Hunter. 20% off sale at the moment so should be able to get it shipped in for less than $1K

Genesis Croix de Fer. Reynolds 725 looks nice, but will probably break the $1K duty barrier unless I score a deal

Wayward Cape York. Probably a bit of overkill for what I need but is locally available.

Kona Sutra. Not sure of local frame availability but look interesting.

I've also spoken to a dealer about Salsa and Soma options, but they seemingly have a long wait to get anything in. Ideally I'd like to have the new frame built up by mid January.

Any other options or comments from those who have ridden any of the above frames? Thanks in advance.
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queequeg
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby queequeg » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:19 pm

What's your budget?

I commute on a Lynskey Cooper CX, which I have had since 2011. Frame just came back from Warranty looking brand new (it developed a small crack in the weld on the drive side dropout).
Chain Reaction Cycles has the Cooper CX Frame going for $1574 (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/e ... prod157018). The matching Fork from Chain Reaction is $299 (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/e ... -prod89254), but Lynskey also has them at 60% off direct from the USA, which comes in marginally cheaper ($USD165 + Shipping).

For a Dyno Wheelset, I just bought a set of Hunt Wheel SuperDura Dyno Disc (https://www.huntbikewheels.com/collecti ... eep-25wide), which have a SONdelux hub. I ran the numbers, and the price of the Hub alone is almost half the cost of the whole wheelset.

Anyway, it really does depend on your budget, but the Cooper CX has fender and rack mounts, disc brakes, and the frames effectively have no weight limit (the wheels will be your main limiter there!). The Tyre clearance is not quite 45c though.

I have another frameset coming from Mason Cycles, for a Bokeh. They do some steel and alu framesets, but I suspect they are way outside your budget

https://masoncycles.cc/shop/categories/resolution-bikes
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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rangersac
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby rangersac » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:44 pm

queequeg wrote:What's your budget?


Realistically I need frame, disk calipers, new wheelset plus a few bits and bobs. Ideally I'd like to spend no more $2k so that really rules out Ti, but I could stretch the budget if necessary. Ti does seem somewhat extravagant for the daily banger though!
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Leaf T
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby Leaf T » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:27 pm

I haven't looked at your selection but would something from Surly or Vivente cut the mustard?

edit. Bike 24 sell some decent looking framesets. Great range of parts too.

The Velo Orange bike looks nice but short chainstays it seems so will be a consideration if using a rack and panniers.

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Last edited by Leaf T on Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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queequeg
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby queequeg » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:31 pm

rangersac wrote:
queequeg wrote:What's your budget?


Realistically I need frame, disk calipers, new wheelset plus a few bits and bobs. Ideally I'd like to spend no more $2k so that really rules out Ti, but I could stretch the budget if necessary. Ti does seem somewhat extravagant for the daily banger though!


Yes, I thought Ti might be a bit extravagant for the daily commuter bike, but I kept breaking alu frames, and I couldn't find anything in a steel frame that suited my requirements (i.e. there was only one disk brake equipped steel frame on the market, and it used 130mm standard road spacing, which severely restricted my wheel options at the time). Carbon was ruled out due to the requirement for rack and mudguards, plus the cost was astronomical.

It's been a great bike. I have done 55,000km on it. It's currently getting a rebuild. I have ditched the BB7 Brakes and gone to the TRP HY/RD calipers (the Spyre was out of stock, and the HY/RD were on special). I have rebuilt the wheels, retaining the hubs.
For a bike that I spend about 90% of my time on, the cost was easily justified. The main advantage of the Ti frame is that it doesn't rust or corrode, and it doesn't fatigue. The bare metal finish is easy to maintain, so scratches are easily removed with a scotchbrite pad. I have ridden it in some truly atrocious weather. A quick wipe down when I get home and it's all good. Very low maintenance.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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Leaf T
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby Leaf T » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:18 pm

Link to Bike24 framesets below. Remove European VAT but add shipping. Farhad Manufaktur and also Patria do some quality affordable frames but you'd have to google those.

https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=13&search=frameset

https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=13&search=frameset

And I forgot Thorn bikes. They do a lot of touring and audax bikes. I put a couple of Raven Tour framesets together 5 or so years ago. Thorn tend to blow their own trumpet in their own opinionated way but worth a look. VAT removed for non EU sales.

http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/

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RonK
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby RonK » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:09 pm

rangersac wrote:Wayward Cape York. Probably a bit of overkill for what I need but is locally available.

An excellent choice I'd say, and local.

Here is a previous build thread. Wayward Cape York Commuter Project
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baabaa
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby baabaa » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:50 am

Also like the wayward as a build up bike frame but an option not well known is https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/space_horse
I put together a macho man disc frame with a salsa vaya fork as my all rounder. SP hub and good lights, front and salsa wander lust rear and downunder racks front. The frame 'n saddle bags from my other bikes also fit so this gives plenty of light weight lugging variation.

My last daily commute was a tad over 60 ks a day so I get what you are talking about. I guess I am putting this up as I needed a more robust frame than my 3 salsas and all city seem to be about mid point in weight, features and price of salsa and surly. The ride on touring Dt TK 540 rims is both "plush" and yet nimble and it will track very well with both hands off the bars. A good sign of well thought out frame geo but this bike is a 61 cm so I guess that helps with the comfort. All your bits including the triple should work well enough. I still run bb7 roads on all the disc bikes just so I don't have to muck about with spares but I do use bar-end shifters and cane creek brake levers so I never find my brakes lacking as I did with the bb7 & brifter combo.
I will take up a two year o/s posting next year in what can only be seen as harsh conditions (ie further south than Tassie). The all city is the one bike I will take with a box of spares, the original fork and other bits off my moth ball bikes to allow me to bike fiddle a bit.

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rangersac
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby rangersac » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:18 pm

baabaa wrote:Also like the wayward as a build up bike frame but an option not well known is https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/space_horse


That's a nice looking frame, but there doesn't seem to be many options for getting one into Australia unfortunately. So it looks like it's coming down to a choice between the VO Pass Hunter, or a full on touring frame like the Wayward or a Surly. Chainstays on the VO are the same length as my Claud Butler, and I clear the panniers on those, but my only concern is whether the frame will be a little fragile, and therefore I should just embrace my fatness and get an appropriately gauged frame.
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baabaa
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby baabaa » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:45 am

True and I went the bike24 route with the 20 Euro bulky item excess (and I see that they have no stock BUT the salsa marrakesh in a drop bar in all sizes plus the fancy red is in at 613 Euro for Aust so that just creeps under your $ gorilla for duty)

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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:14 am

I understand you want a tough frame but you really don’t want one that is a slug to ride. Nothing makes a commute worse than riding home after a 12hr shift on s bike that makes you work harder than you need to, especially if the weather is crap.

I know I want my commuter to be a joy to ride so I would be avoiding the heavy duty touring options.

And do you really need disc brakes as they are really hampering your frame choices and budget.
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby brumby33 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:30 pm

I know its a fair bit above budget but a fully ready to go Vivente Patagonia with Dura ace barend shifters, dyno hub, DT SWISS rims with 36 14g spoke ss spokes and mudguards. They will take up to 700 x 38c tyres with guards or up to 700 x 50C without guards. Seen one done up as a bike packer with fat tyres.
TRP hydro discs at both ends and deore XT drive train. A Tubus rear rack as standard . These are a fully featured tourer for $ 2, 749.

Best bang for buck i reckon.
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby LG » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:57 pm

rangersac wrote:
baabaa wrote:Also like the wayward as a build up bike frame but an option not well known is https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/space_horse


That's a nice looking frame, but there doesn't seem to be many options for getting one into Australia unfortunately. So it looks like it's coming down to a choice between the VO Pass Hunter, or a full on touring frame like the Wayward or a Surly. Chainstays on the VO are the same length as my Claud Butler, and I clear the panniers on those, but my only concern is whether the frame will be a little fragile, and therefore I should just embrace my fatness and get an appropriately gauged frame.

You're not fat, just too bloody strong! You'd be looking for something around 60cm I assume? If you want to have a spin on a 58cm LHT give me a hoy. Cyclingo are the local dealer for surly if you're looking at them, an issue when I bought my LHT was they were only being imported in 26" rather than 700C. Prices were competitive with Germany though for a standard order.
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby Mozziediver » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:51 pm

Wayward bikes
Dirt works bikes seem to be agents - wholesale here https://www.dirtworksb2b.com.au
Probably worth a call
As you reference, their clearance site has some frames in odd sizes.
http://www.clickbike.com.au/wayward-bikes

Kona Sutra sold by Commuter Cycles across the Tasman
https://commutercycles.com.au/product-c ... ing-bikes/
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby rangersac » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:46 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:I understand you want a tough frame but you really don’t want one that is a slug to ride. Nothing makes a commute worse than riding home after a 12hr shift on s bike that makes you work harder than you need to, especially if the weather is crap.
I know I want my commuter to be a joy to ride so I would be avoiding the heavy duty touring options.
And do you really need disc brakes as they are really hampering your frame choices and budget.


I guess I don't absolutely need disc brakes as I've survived on rims for many a year on the commuter, however if I'm going get a new frame (noting that this is the first time I've done so for the commuter!) I figure that it's time to make the upgrade. There's a bit of pragmatism in that decision as I have gone through a fair few wheelsets from rim wear given the mileage that I do, so hopefully discs will reduce that, and I do have some high speed descents on my commute (I regularly crack 80kph on one section), on which some slightly hairy moments have occurred during the wet. I'm with you though on trying to avoid a touring truck as a daily ride. Also any fully loaded touring I'm likely to do in the future would be more of a back country adventure ride, for which your standard touring frame isn't necessarily going to be suitable for.

LG wrote:You're not fat, just too bloody strong! You'd be looking for something around 60cm I assume? If you want to have a spin on a 58cm LHT give me a hoy. Cyclingo are the local dealer for surly if you're looking at them, an issue when I bought my LHT was they were only being imported in 26" rather than 700C. Prices were competitive with Germany though for a standard order.


Thanks mate, if you are around and have the bike I might as well take it for a spin just to see how she rides.
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby Thoglette » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:03 pm

There's a couple of similar threads hereabouts (I'm a tad too busy to find them right now) but I recall the Malvern Star Oppy S (steel with discs) comes with 35mm tyres and looks to have room for a bit more. Not sure. Max frame size is 58.5 so may be a bit small. A complete bike went on Gummy for $400 a month ago (w/ broken spokes)
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby rangersac » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:08 am

Well I dallied too long on the Pass Hunter and missed the 20% off sale, so I've decided to go with the Wayward Cape York, and a set of the Hunt Wheel SuperDura Dyno Discs (thanks for the tip queequeg). Being locally available and in stock it should get me back on the road by mid January, considerably faster than most other options. I also splashed out on some HY/RD calipers, a set of Velo Orange fenders and some upgraditis with a Busch and Muller IQ-X. Will update with build pics when done.
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby Aushiker » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:46 pm

rangersac wrote:some upgraditis with a Busch and Muller IQ-X.


I have received one of these from http://bike24.com but will not have the dynamo fitted until early January. I am interested in what your thoughts are of it when you get it going ... hoping it will be a good light.

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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby queequeg » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:23 pm

rangersac wrote:Well I dallied too long on the Pass Hunter and missed the 20% off sale, so I've decided to go with the Wayward Cape York, and a set of the Hunt Wheel SuperDura Dyno Discs (thanks for the tip queequeg). Being locally available and in stock it should get me back on the road by mid January, considerably faster than most other options. I also splashed out on some HY/RD calipers, a set of Velo Orange fenders and some upgraditis with a Busch and Muller IQ-X. Will update with build pics when done.


Where did you get the Velo Orange Fenders from? I was looking at some of those for my new bike (and I still may get them), but it looks like my only option is to import them from the USA and get shafted on the shipping.

I have also been browsing for Dyno lights to go with my Hunt wheels. So far the SuperNova E3 Pro 2 is looking like what I'll go with. Cost is reasonable, and it will nicely match the Ti frameset. The rest of the build is still TBC, but the bike will most likely be full Ultegra Hydro Disc (R8020) with a Long Cage R8000 Rear Derailluer
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rangersac
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby rangersac » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:59 pm

Aushiker wrote:I have received one of these from http://bike24.com but will not have the dynamo fitted until early January. I am interested in what your thoughts are of it when you get it going ... hoping it will be a good light.


I've been running a Cyo Premium for a few years now which has been a solid unit, but the beam produces some mildly annoying artifacts, and always felt a little under-gunned on high speed descents so hopefully the extra oomph of the IQ-X will improve those aspects.

queequeg wrote:Where did you get the Velo Orange Fenders from?


Commuter Cycles has them. Still pricey, but soooo much shiny goodness...
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queequeg
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby queequeg » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:11 pm

rangersac wrote:
queequeg wrote:Where did you get the Velo Orange Fenders from?


Commuter Cycles has them. Still pricey, but soooo much shiny goodness...


Awesome - I am onto those Velo Orange Fenders!
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby hartleymartin » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:08 pm

If you can extend your budget slightly, I have read good reviews of the Surly Disc Trucker.

There are many different beasts one may call a "Touring Bicycle" and it all rather depends on the type of riding you will do. The Surly "Cross-Check" (and its disc-brake variant, "The Straggler") have been popular as light Tourers as well. The Trucker is better suited to your "kitchen-sink" tourers who carry large loads.

Another good option is the Fuji Touring Bicycle. I had one several years back, but sold it on to fund my vintage bicycle affliction. It is a bit old-fashioned, no disc brakes though. As I recall, I had fitted Shimano Vee Brakes and used one of the first Vee-brake compatible drop levers and found it to be more than adequate for its purpose.
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RonK
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby RonK » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:17 pm

As a former owner I reckon the Surly Disc Trucker/Long Haul Trucker is a heavy, sluggish and unresponsive lump of lard. :wink:

I wouldn't recommend one to my worst enemy. I couldn't get rid of mine quickly enough. :roll:
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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby avolve » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:27 pm

queequeg wrote:I have also been browsing for Dyno lights to go with my Hunt wheels. So far the SuperNova E3 Pro 2 is looking like what I'll go with. Cost is reasonable, and it will nicely match the Ti frameset. The rest of the build is still TBC, but the bike will most likely be full Ultegra Hydro Disc (R8020) with a Long Cage R8000 Rear Derailluer


I had the E3 Pro on a previous (stolen) bike. I followed this with the Airstream on a non-dynamo bike (still have this)

I just installed an E3 Triple for my Jones Plus (still waiting for the matching E3 Tail Light to arrive).

The capped spread (up top) on the Pro is a good option for road riding. I went for the triple as this is for off road use and wanted more light out front (and up).

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Re: New light touring/ commuting frame and bits

Postby rangersac » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:13 pm

hartleymartin wrote:If you can extend your budget slightly, I have read good reviews of the Surly Disc Trucker.


In the end I went for the Wayward rather than a Surly LHT or a Viviente, as these very much are the full kitchen sink tourers. Based on reviews of the Wayward their frame is lighter, and misses out on some of the touring extras such as a kick stand, and spokes holders etc.
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