How can a HM carbon bike with FULL sram red 2012 this cheap?

Re: How can a HM carbon bike with FULL sram red 2012 this ch

Postby boss » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:34 am

biker jk wrote:
usernameforme wrote:
biker jk wrote:That is indeed called branding.


Or R&D


So Giant doesn't spend on R&D for its frames? Do tell how a Colnago frame made by Giant is superior to Giants own frames to justify the price difference?


This.

For some reason, it upsets people to think that some brands (not just in cycling) set their prices at a level simply because they can.
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by BNA » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:19 pm

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Re: How can a HM carbon bike with FULL sram red 2012 this ch

Postby Xplora » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:19 pm

jimboss wrote:For some reason, it upsets people to think that some brands (not just in cycling) set their prices at a level simply because they can.


I think you'll find these people don't understand marketing at all. There is a reason I will pay 1000 bucks extra for wheels made by Greg from TWE despite weights and so forth being comparable to Hongfu wheels. Reputation is important and worth money. I only have one face, and if those wheels break, I won't have one anymore. I bought a Trek Madone because I just feel a little cagey about HongFu falling apart at 70kmh. This may be an unreasonable fear, but it's real, and I can afford to cater for this fear (buying better brands). If you have to choose between reliability and cost, then I would choose neither. Save up more.
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Re: How can a HM carbon bike with FULL sram red 2012 this ch

Postby boss » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:34 pm

Xplora wrote:
jimboss wrote:For some reason, it upsets people to think that some brands (not just in cycling) set their prices at a level simply because they can.


I think you'll find these people don't understand marketing at all. There is a reason I will pay 1000 bucks extra for wheels made by Greg from TWE despite weights and so forth being comparable to Hongfu wheels. Reputation is important and worth money. I only have one face, and if those wheels break, I won't have one anymore. I bought a Trek Madone because I just feel a little cagey about HongFu falling apart at 70kmh. This may be an unreasonable fear, but it's real, and I can afford to cater for this fear (buying better brands). If you have to choose between reliability and cost, then I would choose neither. Save up more.


Perceived reliability, percieved.

But yes, totally agree with you. I'm in the same boat - I am the kind of person who optimizes that perceived reliability/prestige/cost equation. Although some of those matte black china bikes look really, really nice. :twisted:
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Re: How can a HM carbon bike with FULL sram red 2012 this ch

Postby Marty Moose » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:39 pm

I think it would go a step further although I have no proof for what I'm about to say common sense and good business would suggest this practice to me anyway :). Giant and any of the other big Asian manufactures make most of the carbon frames that we ride. Some would argue they are the best at it,other high tech companies such as Boeing use the resources in this area as well. Carbon is only made in a few places in the world and to the best of my knowledge they are all in Asia.

Given this do you honestly think a small company (in comparison) Colnago would do heaps of R&D which costs lots and then tell Giant how to build the frame!! I think is goes more like this. Colnago design the style of frame. Giant make the mould. Colnago ask for specific properties built into the frame, Giant design the layup and complete the process. Colnago charge more because they can, its a Colnago. Pretty simple and cheaper than making your own frame which is why Colnago and other companies do just this using the big Asian manufacturers.

Does anyone remember the tour of the Giant Factory in one of the larger magazines a while back?? All the painted Eddy Merckx frames hanging up, made me smile.

Back to the OP The frame you are talking about is (was) the same one re-badged under another name over here in the West. I've seen them being raced at National Elite level and they went just fine. I was told not sure how accurate the information was but never let the truth get in the way of a good story, especially when you are trying to sell something;) The info I was given was that they were from the Merida factory, they are the second largest manufacturer and make Specialized. So cheap frames yes rubbish I'd say no way, they just as good as any other.

At the end of the day frames do ride different to the next one, go ride a heap of them and see which one you like.

One other point to consider Giant and other major manufacturers would have their own propriety manufacturing process that they use on their own frames. In order to get this you would have to pay, the question that needs to asked is do these bikes made under license have this included or are they built to a price??

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Re: How can a HM carbon bike with FULL sram red 2012 this ch

Postby bostonceltics » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:12 pm

usernameforme wrote:The frame on this looks to be an open-mould chinese frame. Probably only cost $300-$400 to source, if not less. The rear cassette and chain also appear to be the previous generation. There's no denying its good value...


The Azzurri Forza mould is owned by Azzurri 100%, it is definitely not a copy of any other frame on the market and the mould is not open source as Azzurri own it 100%. We've since made some small enhancements over the past two generations.

Azzurri bikes are built in a factory that also makes some other very expensive brands on what you might call the same production line. ;) As someone else mentioned, Azzurri have a lifetime warranty, there is nothing cheap and nasty about a lifetime warranty, that's for sure!! Most of the other stuff (brand image/jargon etc) is marketing dollars, manufactured image and mythology created by consumers and brands to justify the money asked / spent. In my mind there is no possible way to justify a 2/3 yr warranty.

That said, branding (and often the associated placebo effect) is very important to some people and I see nothing wrong with that.

However, I think you'll find that very, very few brands design their own moulds these days, most of it is done in-house by Chinese/Taiwan companies who then give brands a choice of numerous frame designs and then the rights (for a price of course) to that particular mould. In other words, it's pretty much all open source behind closed doors.
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Re: How can a HM carbon bike with FULL sram red 2012 this ch

Postby durianrider » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:00 pm

I just ordered one. Look forward to giving it a solid thrashing on the local strava climbs in Radelaide. Will put up an unboxing review of it on my youtube channel the day it arrives.
Vegan since 2001.

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Re: How can a HM carbon bike with FULL sram red 2012 this ch

Postby scotto » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:41 pm

Xplora wrote:
jimboss wrote:For some reason, it upsets people to think that some brands (not just in cycling) set their prices at a level simply because they can.


I think you'll find these people don't understand marketing at all. There is a reason I will pay 1000 bucks extra for wheels made by Greg from TWE despite weights and so forth being comparable to Hongfu wheels. Reputation is important and worth money..


Too true. My $1000 TWE wheels could probably be bought for well under a quarter of that. If I said I owned a set of Alex rims people would lol. TWE carries cache. ( though the thought of a grand for Alex rims did peeve me a little before I thought about what I was really buying.
I imagine its the same here
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