Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

AnnLev
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Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby AnnLev » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:21 pm

Hello, Can you help please. I have an older persons bike with a comfy seat and wide wheels which I need. Due to reduced energy and strength the suburban uphills of Fisher, Canberra are proving too much. I feel confident I could manage with lower gears and I need the exercise. What would you advise? I am told I can get the current bike adjusted and lower gears fitted. Salespeople are tending to point me at bikes that look very like what I already have and I feel unconvinced that the gears are lower.

Any advice would be very gratefully received,
Thanks
Ann

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Mububban
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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby Mububban » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:53 pm

AnnLev wrote:Hello, Can you help please. I have an older persons bike with a comfy seat and wide wheels which I need. Due to reduced energy and strength the suburban uphills of Fisher, Canberra are proving too much. I feel confident I could manage with lower gears and I need the exercise. What would you advise? I am told I can get the current bike adjusted and lower gears fitted. Salespeople are tending to point me at bikes that look very like what I already have and I feel unconvinced that the gears are lower.

Any advice would be very gratefully received,
Thanks
Ann


How many years old is your bike? How many gears front and rear does it have? Perhaps they'd have a hard time finding replacement parts, or perhaps they're just trying to make a sale.

Changing to lower gearing will move the strain from your leg muscles onto your heart and lungs. Low enough gearing will get you up anything but you'll be going super slow at which point your fitness will determine if you can keep going or not.

If they're not stamped into the gearing or painted on like modern gears have, count the number of teeth in the front gear rings, and the number of teeth in the rear gears. Modern road bikes might have 50-34 in the front rings, and 11-28 or 11-32 in the rear gears. Small front and large rear tooth numbers make for easier climbing.
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Thoglette
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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby Thoglette » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:22 pm

You need to understand that your bike three places that gearing happens
a) the pedal arm - the longer the arm, the more leverage (lower gear)
b) the ratio of the front (smaller better) -to-rear (larger better) sprockets
c) the diameter of the rear tyre - smaller the better.
If you've got an internally geared hub, that's also got a "multiplier"

The late, great Sheldon Brown explains the various ways these ratios are described here

Given that you're unlikely to be doing anything about (a) or (c) on the list above, the only two things you care about are number of teeth on the large cog a the back and the small cog (aka granny gear) at the front.

A traditional road bike might have had 28 and 39 which with normal wheels would result in the bike moving forward just under a metre for every spin of the pedals (38 "gear inches"). The top gear (11 and 53) would move the bike three times as far.

Now a lower gear set up might have a rear cog of 32 or more teeth and a front "granny" gear of 24 teeth. That's down to 50cm per spin of the pedals.

Yet the bike will look, from a distance, almost unchanged.

You can got to extremes (50t vs 20t) but the important thing is the numbers.

What is your current set up????

(Some more examples here)
Last edited by Thoglette on Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby RonK » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:26 pm

AnnLev wrote:What would you advise? I am told I can get the current bike adjusted and lower gears fitted. Salespeople are tending to point me at bikes that look very like what I already have and I feel unconvinced that the gears are lower.

Ann - it may be a good time to consider an e-bike.
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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby Warin » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:38 pm

AnnLev wrote:Hello, Can you help please. I have an older persons bike with a comfy seat and wide wheels which I need. Due to reduced energy and strength the suburban uphills of Fisher, Canberra are proving too much. I feel confident I could manage with lower gears and I need the exercise. What would you advise? I am told I can get the current bike adjusted and lower gears fitted. Salespeople are tending to point me at bikes that look very like what I already have and I feel unconvinced that the gears are lower.


Need some more details to be specific. But the basics are above.. some more?

For my low geared bike I have 3 front and 8 rear sprockets.
The smallest one on the front has 20 teeth, but that is a special. If you have 3 gears/sprockets on the front you can go to 24 or 22 teeth.. with care.

On the rear I think the largest one is 32 teeth, you can get larger ones.

-----------------
The problem with this stuff is the 'range' of the rear derailleur. Basally the rear derailleur has to take up the difference in sizes of the sprockets to keep the chain taught. Make the rear too large/ the front too small and you can run into problems! The rear derailleur with the largest range are called 'long cage' as they have a longer distance between the idler sprockets.

If you want detailed advice you going to need to supply the details of what you have - number of gears front/rear and the number of teeth on the largest and smallest sprockets both front and rear.

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby Duck! » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:37 pm

Warin wrote:
The problem with this stuff is the 'range' of the rear derailleur. Basically the rear derailleur has to take up the difference in sizes of the sprockets to keep the chain taught. Make the rear too large/ the front too small and you can run into problems! The rear derailleur with the largest range are called 'long cage' as they have a longer distance between the idler sprockets.

The bit I've made red is incorrect. The actual size of the front ring/s isn't where the potential for trouble lies, it is in the difference between the rings.

There are several aspects to just what a rear derailleur can handle. The first consideration is the maximum sprocket, dictated byn the length of the main body and resulting clearance between the top pulley and large sprocket. Road derailleurs traditionally only had clearance for up to 27 or 28 tooth sprockets, even in long cage form. More modern models are now accomodating up to 32 or with some models, even 34T gears. The second consideration of a derailleur's capacity is the amount of chain it can "wrap" to take the slack. This will be expressed as the maximum combined difference of front and rear gears that it can accommodate, eg. 37T. so for example if you have a derailleur with a maximum sprocket capacity of 34T, and a total capacity of 37T, you must run a chainring combination with a difference of 14T or less; the 11-34 cassette has a difference of 23T (34-11=23), 37-23=14.. Therefore if you want to run a chainring set with a greater difference between rings, you must reduce the cassette range to stay within the derailleur's total capacity. 50/34 for example is a 16T difference, so to stay within the 37T total capacity, the largest cassette you can fit is 11-32.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby uart » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:15 am

Ann, you need to try and tell us about the gearing on your existing bike so that we can comment on how it can be improved.

If you know what type of gearing you currently have, or can count the teeth on the cogs and chainwheels, or even take some photos, that will help us advise you.

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby DarrylH » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:07 am

I live in the next suburb and have PMd.
I fixed the same problem on my wifes Giant Cypress by switching the crankset to MTB ones so it is not as complicated as some of these answers make out.

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby uart » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:08 pm

so it is not as complicated as some of these answers make out.

What if her current bike doesn't have derailleur gears?

That's why we need to know what she currently has before we can give meaningful help.

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby Tamiya » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:45 pm

uart wrote:
so it is not as complicated as some of these answers make out.

What if her current bike doesn't have derailleur gears?


If it's a Nexus or Sturmey IGH then even easier! :mrgreen:

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby brumby33 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:57 am

To me, the answer lies somewhere in the first sentence of the OP and she has hasn't any idea about bikes.

The description of the bike = an older persons bike, which could mean that this bike is possibly something 30-40 years old and that it had maybe 1 large chain ring and a cluster of perhaps 6 or 7 sprockets. Maybe it's one of those first girls bikes with the chain gears, if I remember back in the 70's and 80's they only had 1 chain ring at the front and no derailiuer and the wide wheels could mean the older style 26-28 inch wheels with wide tyres.. we need to know possibly how old the bike is to understand the set-up. Could even possibly be a cheaper girls style mtb by the sound of the wide wheels description.


So please AnneLev, can you be a bit more descriptive of type of bicycle and perhaps age of bicycle...what do you mean an older person's bike might be a good start so the guys here who have a broad knowledge can get an idea what they are dealing with and help you..


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AnnLev
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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby AnnLev » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:45 pm

Mububban wrote:
AnnLev wrote:Hello, Can you help please. I have an older persons bike with a comfy seat and wide wheels which I need. Due to reduced energy and strength the suburban uphills of Fisher, Canberra are proving too much. I feel confident I could manage with lower gears and I need the exercise. What would you advise? I am told I can get the current bike adjusted and lower gears fitted. Salespeople are tending to point me at bikes that look very like what I already have and I feel unconvinced that the gears are lower.

Any advice would be very gratefully received,
Thanks
Ann


How many years old is your bike? How many gears front and rear does it have? Perhaps they'd have a hard time finding replacement parts, or perhaps they're just trying to make a sale.

Changing to lower gearing will move the strain from your leg muscles onto your heart and lungs. Low enough gearing will get you up anything but you'll be going super slow at which point your fitness will determine if you can keep going or not.

If they're not stamped into the gearing or painted on like modern gears have, count the number of teeth in the front gear rings, and the number of teeth in the rear gears. Modern road bikes might have 50-34 in the front rings, and 11-28 or 11-32 in the rear gears. Small front and large rear tooth numbers make for easier climbing.


Hello Mububban - Thanks you very much for your response. My bike is 10 years old and I have put further details below - I have tried to send you some photos of the bike but have had no luck. Further ideas would be most gratefully received
Thanks again
Ann


DETAILS - AnnLev’s bike – Malvern Star Pathfinder

Front gear rings
There are 3 gear rings.
Counting cogs was a bit problematic – because they are sometimes covered by other parts of gear mechanism – I tried to count the cogs on half the circle of the rings – so I may be out by a couple of cogs.
Smallest gear wheel : 15 x 2 = 30 cogs
Largest gear wheel: 25 x 2 = 50 cogs

Back gear rings
There appear to be 7 gear rings.
Counting cogs – same issue as for front gear rings so I might be out by a couple.
Smallest gear wheel: 7 x 2 = 14 cogs
Largest gear wheel: 14 x 2 = 28 cogs

Wheel radius:
32.5cms including tyre

Pedal length:
16.5cms

AnnLev
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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby AnnLev » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:52 pm

Thoglette wrote:You need to understand that your bike three places that gearing happens
a) the pedal arm - the longer the arm, the more leverage (lower gear)
b) the ratio of the front (smaller better) -to-rear (larger better) sprockets
c) the diameter of the rear tyre - smaller the better.
If you've got an internally geared hub, that's also got a "multiplier"

The late, great Sheldon Brown explains the various ways these ratios are described here

Given that you're unlikely to be doing anything about (a) or (c) on the list above, the only two things you care about are number of teeth on the large cog a the back and the small cog (aka granny gear) at the front.

A traditional road bike might have had 28 and 39 which with normal wheels would result in the bike moving forward just under a metre for every spin of the pedals (38 "gear inches"). The top gear (11 and 53) would move the bike three times as far.

Now a lower gear set up might have a rear cog of 32 or more teeth and a front "granny" gear of 24 teeth. That's down to 50cm per spin of the pedals.

Yet the bike will look, from a distance, almost unchanged.

You can got to extremes (50t vs 20t) but the important thing is the numbers.

What is your current set up????

(Some more examples here)



Hello Thoglette - Thanks very much for your response and advice. I am copying in further details of my bike below (I hope) have tried to send photos but with no success. Wondering if you know why I am finding it hard to push uphill and if there is an easy solution. Appreicate any further advice. Many thanks Ann


DETAILS - AnnLev’s bike – Malvern Star Pathfinder

Front gear rings
There are 3 gear rings.
Counting cogs was a bit problematic – because they are sometimes covered by other parts of gear mechanism – I tried to count the cogs on half the circle of the rings – so I may be out by a couple of cogs.
Smallest gear wheel : 15 x 2 = 30 cogs
Largest gear wheel: 25 x 2 = 50 cogs

Back gear rings
There appear to be 7 gear rings.
Counting cogs – same issue as for front gear rings so I might be out by a couple.
Smallest gear wheel: 7 x 2 = 14 cogs
Largest gear wheel: 14 x 2 = 28 cogs

Wheel radius:
32.5cms including tyre

Pedal length:
16.5cms

AnnLev
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:45 am

Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby AnnLev » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:56 pm

Warin wrote:
AnnLev wrote:Hello, Can you help please. I have an older persons bike with a comfy seat and wide wheels which I need. Due to reduced energy and strength the suburban uphills of Fisher, Canberra are proving too much. I feel confident I could manage with lower gears and I need the exercise. What would you advise? I am told I can get the current bike adjusted and lower gears fitted. Salespeople are tending to point me at bikes that look very like what I already have and I feel unconvinced that the gears are lower.


Need some more details to be specific. But the basics are above.. some more?

For my low geared bike I have 3 front and 8 rear sprockets.
The smallest one on the front has 20 teeth, but that is a special. If you have 3 gears/sprockets on the front you can go to 24 or 22 teeth.. with care.

On the rear I think the largest one is 32 teeth, you can get larger ones.

-----------------
The problem with this stuff is the 'range' of the rear derailleur. Basally the rear derailleur has to take up the difference in sizes of the sprockets to keep the chain taught. Make the rear too large/ the front too small and you can run into problems! The rear derailleur with the largest range are called 'long cage' as they have a longer distance between the idler sprockets.

If you want detailed advice you going to need to supply the details of what you have - number of gears front/rear and the number of teeth on the largest and smallest sprockets both front and rear.



Hello Warin, Many thanks for your advice. I am copying the details of my bike below - tried to send photos but havent managed it. I would be very grateful if you can get assess why I am finding it hard to push my bike up hill and if there is an easy solution.

Many thanks Ann

DETAILS - AnnLev’s bike – Malvern Star Pathfinder

Front gear rings
There are 3 gear rings.
Counting cogs was a bit problematic – because they are sometimes covered by other parts of gear mechanism – I tried to count the cogs on half the circle of the rings – so I may be out by a couple of cogs.
Smallest gear wheel : 15 x 2 = 30 cogs
Largest gear wheel: 25 x 2 = 50 cogs

Back gear rings
There appear to be 7 gear rings.
Counting cogs – same issue as for front gear rings so I might be out by a couple.
Smallest gear wheel: 7 x 2 = 14 cogs
Largest gear wheel: 14 x 2 = 28 cogs

Wheel radius:
32.5cms including tyre

Pedal length:
16.5cms

AnnLev
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:45 am

Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby AnnLev » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:02 pm

Duck! wrote:
Warin wrote:
The problem with this stuff is the 'range' of the rear derailleur. Basically the rear derailleur has to take up the difference in sizes of the sprockets to keep the chain taught. Make the rear too large/ the front too small and you can run into problems! The rear derailleur with the largest range are called 'long cage' as they have a longer distance between the idler sprockets.

The bit I've made red is incorrect. The actual size of the front ring/s isn't where the potential for trouble lies, it is in the difference between the rings.

There are several aspects to just what a rear derailleur can handle. The first consideration is the maximum sprocket, dictated byn the length of the main body and resulting clearance between the top pulley and large sprocket. Road derailleurs traditionally only had clearance for up to 27 or 28 tooth sprockets, even in long cage form. More modern models are now accomodating up to 32 or with some models, even 34T gears. The second consideration of a derailleur's capacity is the amount of chain it can "wrap" to take the slack. This will be expressed as the maximum combined difference of front and rear gears that it can accommodate, eg. 37T. so for example if you have a derailleur with a maximum sprocket capacity of 34T, and a total capacity of 37T, you must run a chainring combination with a difference of 14T or less; the 11-34 cassette has a difference of 23T (34-11=23), 37-23=14.. Therefore if you want to run a chainring set with a greater difference between rings, you must reduce the cassette range to stay within the derailleur's total capacity. 50/34 for example is a 16T difference, so to stay within the 37T total capacity, the largest cassette you can fit is 11-32.


Hello Duck, many thanks for your insights about low gears. I am copying in further details of my bike - and hoping you may be able to tell me why I am finding it hard to push uphill - other than that I am getting on, losing strength and have low energy - ha ha ha - and if there is a simple solution to making it easy to push on the slopes. Many thanks for any further insights Ann

DETAILS - AnnLev’s bike – Malvern Star Pathfinder

Front gear rings
There are 3 gear rings.
Counting cogs was a bit problematic – because they are sometimes covered by other parts of gear mechanism – I tried to count the cogs on half the circle of the rings – so I may be out by a couple of cogs.
Smallest gear wheel : 15 x 2 = 30 cogs
Largest gear wheel: 25 x 2 = 50 cogs

Back gear rings
There appear to be 7 gear rings.
Counting cogs – same issue as for front gear rings so I might be out by a couple.
Smallest gear wheel: 7 x 2 = 14 cogs
Largest gear wheel: 14 x 2 = 28 cogs

Wheel radius:
32.5cms including tyre

Pedal length:
16.5cms

AnnLev
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:45 am

Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby AnnLev » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:04 pm

uart wrote:Ann, you need to try and tell us about the gearing on your existing bike so that we can comment on how it can be improved.

If you know what type of gearing you currently have, or can count the teeth on the cogs and chainwheels, or even take some photos, that will help us advise you.



Hello uart, Many thanks for your help. I am copying in further details of my bike - tried to sopy in photos but couldn't work it out. ANy further insights you have would be most gratefully received. Thanks Ann

DETAILS - AnnLev’s bike – Malvern Star Pathfinder

Front gear rings
There are 3 gear rings.
Counting cogs was a bit problematic – because they are sometimes covered by other parts of gear mechanism – I tried to count the cogs on half the circle of the rings – so I may be out by a couple of cogs.
Smallest gear wheel : 15 x 2 = 30 cogs
Largest gear wheel: 25 x 2 = 50 cogs

Back gear rings
There appear to be 7 gear rings.
Counting cogs – same issue as for front gear rings so I might be out by a couple.
Smallest gear wheel: 7 x 2 = 14 cogs
Largest gear wheel: 14 x 2 = 28 cogs

Wheel radius:
32.5cms including tyre

Pedal length:
16.5cms

uart
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Location: Newcastle

Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby uart » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:21 pm

AnnLev wrote:
uart wrote:Ann, you need to try and tell us about the gearing on your existing bike so that we can comment on how it can be improved.

If you know what type of gearing you currently have, or can count the teeth on the cogs and chainwheels, or even take some photos, that will help us advise you.



Hello uart, Many thanks for your help. I am copying in further details of my bike - tried to sopy in photos but couldn't work it out. ANy further insights you have would be most gratefully received. Thanks Ann

DETAILS - AnnLev’s bike – Malvern Star Pathfinder
16.5cms


Ok I assume that it looks something like this:
Image

That's a fairly basic looking old school 26" MTB. Triple up front (probably 50/40/30 or something similar) and a 7 speed 14-28 cluster at the rear. Those are reasonably low gears, but you could get lower.

Seeing as it's an old bike and we can't really see exactly what type of chainrings those cranks use (some cheap ones don't even have replaceable rings), the easiest thing would be to see if your existing derailleurs will handle a bigger cluster up back. That is very likely a screw on cluster, so the bike shop should be able to screw it off and screw on a new one.

You'll have to go by the local bike shop's assessment of what will fit there. I'm pretty sure that a 14-32 would fit. You can also get a Shimano 14-34 "megarange" 7 speed cluster, but you'll have to check with the bike shop whether it will work with your existing derailleurs.

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby RobertL » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:06 pm

Yeah - what uart says above. If you can swap the 14-28 rear cluster to a 14-32 without changing the rear derailleur, then that is a relatively inexpensive change. The new freewheel will cost around $20-30, with a bike shop charging about the same in labour to swap it.

Going from a 28 tooth sprocket as the largest (lowest) gear to a 32, with all else staying the same, is a 14% (4/28) lower gear. That will make a difference. If you are only just finding the hills a bit too hard now, then it will probably be enough.
Image

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby uart » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:34 pm

If you can fit a 34T (not all derailleurs will handle it) then that will be the best option.

I'm not sure if this is the only 34T option but this is the one I most often see. The "Shimano "MegaRange" that I mentioned above.
Image
It's a kind of whacky tooth progression, with a fairly close spaced 6 speed followed by a massive jump to the final "bailout" gear. It works ok for it's intended purpose (of bailout) though. But the big final step doesn't work well with all derailleurs, as the upper jockey wheel tends to interfere with the #7 34T when you're running on the #6 24T if the derailleur can't manage it.

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby Duck! » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:08 pm

All Shimano MTB derailleurs from within the last 20 years will handle the MegaRange 34T gear. The final shift isn't pretty, but it works.

If it's a hybrid-style bike, the chainrings are most probably 48/36/26, but if it's more MTB-style then 44/32/22 is more probable. In either case it's almost certain that the rings aren't replaceable, dictating a whole new crank if a change is desired.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby DarrylH » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:22 pm

I had a look at the bike today - small ring is a 28 - I have an old triple with a 24, so we will see if that is low enough. If not, I have a mega range cluster to try (if I can sneak it off my wifes bike). I also have a spare SLX crankset with a 22 inner chainring if all else fails.

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby Thoglette » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:49 pm

DarrylH wrote:I had a look at the bike today

Image
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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby uart » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:40 pm

DarrylH wrote:I had a look at the bike today - small ring is a 28 - I have an old triple with a 24, so we will see if that is low enough. If not, I have a mega range cluster to try (if I can sneak it off my wifes bike). I also have a spare SLX crankset with a 22 inner chainring if all else fails.


Excellent Darryl. :) I thought that the small ring would probably be 28 (despite the OP estimating 30) as that was a very common size on low end triples of that era.

Going 24 there on the front is roughly equivalent (in terms of overall ratio) as going 33T on the rear (actually 32.7T) with the existing front rings. So a little bit better than a 32T but not quite as good as the 34T equivalent.

Hopefully your old triple will fit straight on without having to mess with the spindle. Sometimes old cranks vary a little from one to the next as to exactly how far they slide onto the square taper, and I've sometime ended up with something that wont quite work (crank spider either too close or too far away) when trying this trick. Often it works straight up though. :)

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby Duck! » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:18 pm

uart wrote:Hopefully your old triple will fit straight on without having to mess with the spindle. Sometimes old cranks vary a little from one to the next as to exactly how far they slide onto the square taper, and I've sometime ended up with something that wont quite work (crank spider either too close or too far away) when trying this trick. Often it works straight up though. :)

It's not so much how far the crank slips onto the spindle that differs, but the offset of the spider/rings against the butt of the crank. Some cranks have the small ring basically flush with the butt of the crank, allowing a fairly short spindle, while others will have the crank butt recessed so it's almost aligned with the middle ring, dictating a longer spindle to ensure sufficient clearance between the small ring (especially with a 28) and the frame, as well as kepping the chainline correct to allow the front derailleur to access all three rings (if the small ring is too far inboard the derailleur can't swing in far enough to shift the chain onto it - there's only so much the limit screw can allow before the derailleur linkage geometry completely compresses itself).
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Need a bike with low maybe superlow gears - advice sought

Postby uart » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:23 pm

Duck! wrote:It's not so much how far the crank slips onto the spindle that differs, but the offset of the spider/rings against the butt of the crank.

Yeah good point Duck, I've noticed those differences too. In any case the result is the same, you often can't just do a simple crank swap without also messing with the spindle. :)

Hopefully DarrylH will update us on how this turns out.

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