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Questions about purchasing bicycles and parts

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:55 pm

Wanta-bike wrote:
wndrdr1111 wrote:....Any particular reason why you want a full carbon bike? My brother just bought a Giant OCR1 (carbon forks, stays and seat post) with 105 running gear for around $1600 from freedom machine. He loves it, although my personal preference would be for ultegra running gear as it just feels a little nicer. I think freedom machine still have specials on OCR C series bikes. Check out their website....


not 100% sure why i want full carbon, tho it does giv u a "comfier" ride and i've been told that transfer of energy is much more efficient. weight wise, the bikes i've been lookin at are all about 8-9ish kgs.... also that toss factor of sayin "i've got a full carbon bike" :lol:

yeah i've cheked out the freedom machine's website and they got some pretty sweet deals on their giant bikes. quick question ppls:

when giant says that their "OCR C1, C2 and C3's are a "carbon composite" frame, does this mean its carbon mixed in with alloy? as opposed to "monocoque carbon" that i've noticed is on azzurri bikes?


There's an alloy OCR range and a carbon OCR range.

Most carbon bikes are carbon threads wrapped around something, usually alloy and then covered with resin.

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by BNA » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:30 pm

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Postby Bnej » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:30 pm

Carbon composite refers to plastic reinforced with carbon fibre, which is variously called "Carbon Fibre", "Composite", and various others.

I can tell you the OCR C3 is a very comfortable ride, think it's the same frame for the C2 & C1.

Monocoque is a construction method, the material will be the same (composition).
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Postby europa » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:34 pm

It's all a compromise in an attempt to match a real frame.

Richard
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the above has been an inebriated statement made in the interests of stirring the poor souls who believe that good frames can be made of plastic
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Postby Mulger bill » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:40 pm

europa wrote:the above has been an inebriated statement made in the interests of stirring the poor souls who believe that good frames can be made of plastic


Fire extinguisher required in SthAus, right now. :lol:
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Postby europa » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:51 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
europa wrote:the above has been an inebriated statement made in the interests of stirring the poor souls who believe that good frames can be made of plastic


Fire extinguisher required in SthAus, right now. :lol:


Rubbish. I keep pouring chateau cardboard on it and it just gets worse :D

Richard
who has finally got the handlebars set in the right position on the Black Beast and is feeling rather superior ... in the absence of anything negative :roll:
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Postby Mulger bill » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:58 pm

What'd you have to do to the bars?
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Postby europa » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:06 am

Mulger bill wrote:What'd you have to do to the bars?


Really subtle stuff. I've fitted a new neck (BBB brand) which places the bars at about the same height as the seat (I'm old remember, with a dud shoulder thanks to a trail bike bingle years ago). The latest bit of fiddling has been to do with the angle of the bars. I seem to have hit a sweet spot today where when riding on the hoods, the fleshy part at the base of your thumb takes the weight of your body while the V of your thumb and forefinger is buried up in the rubber hood of the brake lever. It's early days yet, but today was the most comfortable I've felt on the bike ... but it was only a 20min ride so I may wind up changing things again. But at least I'm chasing minor changes now, not major. Thanks to the prang a few weeks back, I need new bar tape and I'll take that opportunity to pad things out a bit.

Remember, I'm 50, with a crook shoulder thanks to dislocating my collarbone years ago in a trail bike accident. Modern racing type bar positions are sheer agony for me.

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Postby Mulger bill » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:14 am

How much change do you think rotating the bars will give, I'm happy with the drop but I'd like a little less weight on the wrists when on the hoods.
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Postby europa » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:22 am

It's a mix of bar height and bar angle and brifter position. My bars are now more or less at the same height as the seat thanks to a new neck. I ride on the hooks most of the time, so I've slowly rotated the bars up until the pad of muscle at the base of my thumb takes the weight rather than the V of my thumb and forefinger - I'm rather sensitive to that. I still have to move my hands around on any sort of ride over twenty minutes, but I think that I've finally reached a good compromise. There is a hollow between the bars and the brifter which I have padded out but effectively (currently foam padding but when I redo the bars, I'll be using bar tape to fill that in), I'm taking my weight on that pad of muscle at the base of my thumb.

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Postby Mulger bill » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:26 am

Might have to give it a go, thanks for the tip.

Shaun
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Postby Bnej » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:21 am

europa wrote:It's all a compromise in an attempt to match a real frame.

Richard
steel is real :D

the above has been an inebriated statement made in the interests of stirring the poor souls who believe that good frames can be made of plastic


Race ya? ;)
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Postby wndrdr1111 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:45 am

When I was first looking for a bike I wanted a carbon frame too. Giant TCR C1 was high on my list but after reading a few reviews of various bikes I decided to go with an aluminium Cervelo Team Soloist and couldn't be happier. It's so comfy and fast. And I just love the looks.

I haven't ridden carbon bikes for any extended period of time so I can't really compare them to my Cervelo but I really doubt that they would be any more comfortable. I recently completed Otway Classic (160kms) on the Cervelo and I could have just kept going, there was no discomfort at all.

My advice would be to ride a few bikes and buy the one you really want and feel comfortable on. Don't buy a bike just because it has a carbon frame.

Cheers,
Tom
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Postby Halfanewb » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:50 am

europa wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:What'd you have to do to the bars?


Modern racing type bar positions are sheer agony for me.

Richard


+1 i went through the same process on the shogun. When i bought her i was in the full racing position and it was torture, with the new bbb neck i have what used to be called a "semi racer" configuration.

Rotating the bars was good for me as well, now i don't have to grip the bar i can rest the hands exactly as you described. I did take the time to fit gel bar tabs under the tape to make them nice and fat near the hoods.

As i got more used to riding with this setup i found i could move the seat a little further back to fine tune my riding position, its amazing how much difference 1cm can make.
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Postby MichaelB » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:47 am

Imanewbie wrote: I did take the time to fit gel bar tabs under the tape to make them nice and fat near the hoods.



Can you enlighten me a bit more on this - I would dearly love to get a bit more padding in this area

Cheers

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Postby LuckyPierre » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:54 am

I don't know about the Giants, but the Azzurri monocoque carbon bikes are just that - a moncoque frame rather than carbon tubes joined with lugs - albeit carbon ones - like some frames are / were (including theirs). The Azzurri lugged carbon frame that I spent some time on (a Forza) was really quick!
Edited to add - oops, I came into this at the end of a page, rather than the end of the thread. :oops:
But, while I'm here - Specialized's Phat bare tape is available from some shops (and online).
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Postby europa » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:28 am

MichaelB wrote:
Imanewbie wrote: I did take the time to fit gel bar tabs under the tape to make them nice and fat near the hoods.



Can you enlighten me a bit more on this - I would dearly love to get a bit more padding in this area

Cheers

Michael B


You can buy strips of gel that go under the bar tape. They pump out the diameter of the bars quite a bit (which I like) and have a bit of give as well. When fitting, you have to wind the bar tape very tight, but they certainly make a big difference to the ride. When i come down to get that computer, I'll ride the Black Beast so you can have a look.

Richard
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Postby sogood » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:37 am

europa wrote:You can buy strips of gel that go under the bar tape. They pump out the diameter of the bars quite a bit (which I like) and have a bit of give as well. When fitting, you have to wind the bar tape very tight, but they certainly make a big difference to the ride.

Those gel strips aren't cheap and often comes in a package with bar tapes. They have backside adhesive that lets you stick them on as you wrap. It does make the wrap a bit more difficult as they altern the geometry of the bar. You do sacrifice some weight but the comfort is quite nice.

The good news is that they can be reused over and over again, unlike bar tapes.
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Postby Halfanewb » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:02 am

Your lbs should stock them Michael , mine were $17.

When i installed them i pre wrapped them into position using electrical tape as they can be a nuisance to fit correctly and this softens the inevitable kinks in the plastic.
I didn't bother with the drop bar inserts as i'm not using them enough to warrant it and could use the extra length in the bar tape to wrap the tape closer (more overlap) at the position where my hands rest for extra fatness or should that be phatness? :) .
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Postby MichaelB » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:36 am

Thanks Richard, sogood and Iamanewbie - I'll look into it this weekend for sure.

I'm not worried about the weight penalty - at 96kg, a few extra grams is worth the comfort.

Cheers

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Postby MichaelB » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:15 am

Success guys !!!

I trudged around to 4 LBS's and came up with varying options. You could buy the Gel separate, and the options ranged from $11.95 for cheap crap to $39.95 for u-beaut stuff. There was also an option for one that came with tape (Specialized Bar Phat) for $34.95.

I settled on the 4.5mm thick (they had a bar taped up in the store) Specialized Bar Phat and will aim to fit it tonight.

Now, just to hunt down the instructions that someone posted about the fitting of bar tape......

Thanks guys

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Postby LuckyPierre » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:24 am

I use the Park Toolsguide - you can get it from Mike's signature. :wink:
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Postby Halfanewb » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:45 am

sweet michael !

most folks recommend installing the tape from the bar ends up, but i am a bit weird and install from the center down to the bar ends, poking the excess into the bar end at the finish. Which ever way takes your fancy i found that stretching the tape helps heaps in the fitting and you can pull fairly hard and it wont snap. Wrap the tape around the bars in the direction of the front wheel as you go over the top so that any possible micro movement of the tape by the pressure of your hands as you lean forward tightens the tape.

It takes a little practice to get the wrap nice and uniform but after a couple of tries you will get the hang of it :)
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Postby MichaelB » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:59 am

LuckyPierre wrote:I use the Park Toolsguide - you can get it from Mike's signature. :wink:


Found it in Mikesbytes signature and it is already printed and well studied.

I'll take into account Iamanewbie's comments re starting position

Ooroo

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Postby mikesbytes » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:25 pm

MichaelB wrote:
LuckyPierre wrote:I use the Park Toolsguide - you can get it from Mike's signature. :wink:


Found it in Mikesbytes signature and it is already printed and well studied.

I'll take into account Iamanewbie's comments re starting position

Ooroo

Michael B


Not sure who introduced me to Park Tools, might of been sogood. Check out sheldon brown, now added to my signature.

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Postby Mulger bill » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:27 pm

G'Day MichaelB,

I was asking about taping bars earlier. It might take a few goes to get it right, I'm still not happy with the left hand side after a couple of tries :oops: allow a bit of time so you don't have to rush. It seems you really can't pull the tape tight enough.

Have fun with it.

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