shoes

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shoes

Postby bigbuzz73 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:10 am

Hi guys,
I'm going to buy some new road shoes but not sure whether to buy full carbon soles for their stiffness, or carbon inserts that give a little flex.
I've heard for some people full carbon soles are too stiff and are less comfortable than the soles with a little bit of 'give'.
I would appreciate some feedback from those who are doing lots of hours on their bikes on what they wear and how they find the comfort/efficiency.
I'm looking at Specialized, Sidi or similar.
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by BNA » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:53 am

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Postby sogood » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:53 am

If that's your budget range and don't have past experiences, then go Sidi. There are very very few wearers who have bad words for Sidi. Not so with other brands. Sidi also have a reputation for being very durable.
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Postby LuckyPierre » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:17 am

Like sogood says: "If that's your budget range ..."
Sadly, it wasn't mine. :? I've had a pair of Exustar SR 202's for about a year now and, while they might not fit like Sidi's, they are very comfortable and seem to be pretty durable. The soles have marked up a bit, but the only other bit of wear is a scuff mark on the inside of the left heel. I was worried, because I thought they were falling apart - but I've worked it out now. I (nearly) always unclip my left foot first and tended to di it with my pedals flat. My heel was rubbing on my tyre and with a slight change in technique, the cause is gone, but the scuff remains. :cry:
They have a full carbon sole and it doesn't cause any discomfort. I've taped over the under-sole ventilation system, because it got bl**dy cold during winter and I didn't bother to take the tape off over summer.
I tried the Specialized Pro Carbon shoes on and would have bought them, but I got a special (groan) deal on the Exustars.
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Postby MichaelB » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:09 am

Hmmm, they look nice.

My shoes are an eBay special. Diadora - fairly basic, plastic sole with flat liner. No problems with comfort at all. (AT) $40, they were a bargain and ideal for my first pair of shoes.

Initially baulked at the price of SIDI shoes, but as a resul;t of my motorbike accident, and a niggling left knee/ligament issue, amy need to look at custom shoes to overcome the issue which are even more expensive.

As others advised before, amke sure they are comfortable as the prime consideration.
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Postby tuco » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:50 am

I have the carbon sole shoes. Can't say they're good or bad as they're the only ones I've had. Not sure of the model but they're Shinamo and blue and white stripes with the racket thingies on them.

One thing I found is I got sore/numb feet so I put shoe liners inside them. I don't know if that was the result of the carbon sole or whether all shoes would have caused that problem.
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Postby sogood » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:58 am

tuco wrote:One thing I found is I got sore/numb feet so I put shoe liners inside them. I don't know if that was the result of the carbon sole or whether all shoes would have caused that problem.

One of the design views of Sidi is that a super stiff CF sole is counter productive to rider performance. They advertise their CF soles to have a dialed in level of rigidity in the critical areas, to maximize force transmission whilst looking after rider comfort. There may be some truth in it as applied to your case.

And I am a sucker to believe that view given my understanding of biomechanics and design.
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Postby europa » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:34 pm

tuco wrote:One thing I found is I got sore/numb feet so I put shoe liners inside them. I don't know if that was the result of the carbon sole or whether all shoes would have caused that problem.


Might also have been a case of doing them up too tight (very easy with them ratchet thingies). I had quite bad foot problems until I learned to lace loose.

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Postby Bnej » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:47 pm

europa wrote:Might also have been a case of doing them up too tight (very easy with them ratchet thingies).


I did my new helmet up too tight when I first got it, it cut off circulation at the front of my head and it felt like it was freezing (like, unbearable). It has one of those little dial adjusters.
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Postby tuco » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:18 pm

Bnej wrote:I did my new helmet up too tight when I first got it, it cut off circulation at the front of my head and it felt like it was freezing (like, unbearable). It has one of those little dial adjusters.


I wouldn't admit to that if I did it. :oops:
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Postby Bnej » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:26 pm

I had no choice, I was on this off-road night ride with 3 others and had to stop for like 5 minutes to rub the front of my head with my hands!

Thing is, it didn't *feel* too tight, and only started being a problem about 30 minutes into the ride. And there's like two clicks on the dial between "snug" and "trepanation".

Just worth thinking about if your feet are feeling cold/numb, might be due to circulation.
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Postby tuco » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:33 pm

Bnej wrote:I had no choice, I was on this off-road night ride with 3 others and had to stop for like 5 minutes to rub the front of my head with my hands!

Thing is, it didn't *feel* too tight, and only started being a problem about 30 minutes into the ride. And there's like two clicks on the dial between "snug" and "trepanation".

Just worth thinking about if your feet are feeling cold/numb, might be due to circulation.


It's not a problem now. It was partly the hard shoe inside, pushing down on the pedals (incorrect pedalling technique) and switching to clipless.
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Postby moosterbounce » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:13 pm

Tip I was given for doing up cycling shoes...

1. Put shoe on.
2. Scrunch toes up.
3. Do up shoe (all buckets, velcroes, ratchets, and gadgets!!).
4. Un-scrunch toes.
5. Shoes perfect!!

When you scrunch your toes, it lifts your foot up a bit - enough to give you some room for your toes and not cut off circulation.

I have used it since I got my DMTs and it hasn't failed me. If you are sprinting though it may give too much room - maybe tighten them up on the last lap :D

I don't know if you can adapt this for adjusting helmets though :wink:

In regards to carbon soles...some love them, others don't (like anything to do with cycling really!!). Mine are carbon reinforced. My old Diadora's were plastic and the DMTs are definitely more comfy as my toes still go to sleep with the plastic :? Go figure!!

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Postby sogood » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:35 pm

Those flip buckles, dials and velcros are meant for you to adjust whilst riding. So it's not a bad idea to put them on and go and ride. Then dial in the right fit after a km or two as your foot and socks settles in. There's no need to worry about the exact tightness first thing in the morning.
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Postby 531db » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:08 pm

Just as carbon fibre frames are an expensive waste of money, so are carbon soles.
All a shoe needs in terms of sole rigidity is sufficient to allow effecient power transfer whilst allowing a very slight 'give' (not flex) for comfort.
Moulded plastic is more tham adequate for this.
My Specialized Sport Road take care of my Look pedal needs, whilst my Duegi, Asics and Detto's take care of the clip and strap pedals (which is about 70 percent of my mileage).
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Postby sogood » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:21 pm

531db wrote:Just as carbon fibre frames are an expensive waste of money, so are carbon soles.

Sacrilege for the OCP crowd! :shock: :D :D

For me, I won't exclude any material. It all depend on how it's used. Some product make good use of whatever material it chooses while others make bad use of the best material available.
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Postby mikesbytes » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:23 pm

531db wrote:Just as carbon fibre frames are an expensive waste of money, so are carbon soles.
All a shoe needs in terms of sole rigidity is sufficient to allow effecient power transfer whilst allowing a very slight 'give' (not flex) for comfort.
Moulded plastic is more tham adequate for this.
My Specialized Sport Road take care of my Look pedal needs, whilst my Duegi, Asics and Detto's take care of the clip and strap pedals (which is about 70 percent of my mileage).


If you are using clip and strap style pedals, presumably with a cleat, then am I correct in saying that the rigidity of the shoe isn't as important?
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Postby gururug » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:00 pm

I think its more about avoiding bad one's than finding good ones.

This of course will very depending on your preference and budget.

I think width and durability is more important than exact material.

That said most reputable shoes do quite a good job for what they are designed for.
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Postby 531db » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:17 pm

mikesbytes wrote:

"If you are using clip and strap style pedals, presumably with a cleat, then am I correct in saying that the rigidity of the shoe isn't as important?"

Rigidity would be just as important, the Look just uses a different retention system (the 'ski binding') to the conventional pedal (the strap and clip).

gururug wrote:

"I think its more about avoiding bad one's than finding good ones.

This of course will very depending on your preference and budget.

I think width and durability is more important than exact material.

That said most reputable shoes do quite a good job for what they are designed for."

Correct.
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Postby thm » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:25 pm

Not sure if this is the correct place to pose this question, but here goes.

I've recently taken up biking and decided to get a MTB. I'm in the purchasing phase and trying to decide what I need to kit myself out. I'm a bit unsure whether I need MTB shoes or not. Can someone tell me what the advantages are? I don't quite get why you need to wear anything except normal sneakers. Is it the weight? From what I've seen they pretty much look like normal shoes except some have cleats. Could someone enlighten me?

Sorry if this is a really stupid question, but I'm only just starting to take an interest in bicycles and have a lot to learn.

Any advice given would be greatly appreciated.
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Postby Bnej » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:33 pm

Hi thm and welcome.

Cycling shoes have a very stiff sole compared to a regular shoe. This aids you in pushing hard on your pedals as your shoe doesn't flex. They also have holes to attach a "cleat" for special clipless pedals that the shoes click into.

If you have regular platform pedals, or pedals with straps, you can get by with normal shoes. If you want to be able to apply more force to the pedals, you can get MTB shoes with a plastic blank over the attachment points.

Should you decide to upgrade to clipless pedals, which give you a firmer hold of the pedal with your foot, the riding shoes will let you attach the required cleat.
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Postby Kalgrm » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:42 pm

Bnej has it pretty well covered, but what sort of MTB riding are you into? Cross country (aka XC)? Downhill (DH)? The style of riding you plan to take up influences the answer to your question (XC riders tend to get cleats for more power over time, whilst downhillers often stick with platform pedals for the quick bail-out when they lose it!)

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Postby thm » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:50 pm

Thanks guys!

In response I don't really know what I want. I got a MTB for the sheer adaptability of it. It allows me to explore what I want to do future down the track. I definitely want to do some trails and see how I go. But I would see myself heading more down the XC path than downhill. I want to keep my bones unbroken. :lol:

Just a quick question. Would you recommend me getting EXUSTAR Road Shoe (E-SR920) which is listed on Torpedo 7? They are pretty cheap. Although probably more for road bikes than MTB. Would it work with a MTB?
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Postby stryker84 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:10 pm

um, if you're just gonna be generally gadding about without being clipped in, you don't really need cycling specific shoes. they do have a stiffer base, which does help slightly with pushing down on the pedals, but you can get away with normal trainers.

Where cycling shoes DO come into their own is if you're going clipless (that is, you get clipped into your pedals). then the mounting points for cleats are used, and the stiffer sole actually means you don't flex your foot all over the place when you pull and push.

my 2c, if you're not gonna get the cleats and pedals (yes, you need special pedals as well, i'm assuming your current pedals are platforms, means you can't clip into them) then don't bother and just go with your everyday shoes.

if you decide to clip in, then get some MTB shoes. NOT those Exustars, they've got a slippy flat sole which would be a hazard to walk on. MTB shoes have some thread, and if you decide to fix a cleat, the cleat is recessed into the thread which allows you to walk on them, road shoes are only meant to be used on the bike, cos the cleat protrudes out and makes you waddle. dangerous, bad for the cleats AND undignified.
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Postby Bnej » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:33 pm

thm wrote:Just a quick question. Would you recommend me getting EXUSTAR Road Shoe (E-SR920) which is listed on Torpedo 7? They are pretty cheap. Although probably more for road bikes than MTB. Would it work with a MTB?


For your MTB I'd start off with regular shoes while you get your fitness up.

If you want cycling shoes, get an MTB shoe which has a bit of tread on the bottom. This lets you walk more easily, and provides something to grab the ridges on the pedal if you're using platform pedals. I now use them with clipless pedals on both my road and mountain bikes.

A road shoe will slip on platform pedals and is really hard to walk on - this is especially important if you have to carry the bike off road at all, and because they're not designed for walking you could wreck the shoes.

I have some Nike MTB shoes which I used for a while on regular pedals before going clipless. I found the rigid sole to be a big benefit on it's own, but that may depend on how soft your normal shoes are and how hard you're stomping on the pedals.

Finally, road shoes generally have a 3 hole pattern for a large protruding road cleat, while MTB shoes have a 2 hole pattern for a small recessed metal MTB cleat. If you want MTB pedals one day, you will want an MTB shoe too.
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Postby thm » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:35 pm

Thanks.

No shoes it is. Haha. I mean normal shoes :D
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