Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

brauluver
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Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby brauluver » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:07 pm

Hi de ho folks.
Just mulling over some possibilites and thought I'd sound out those with prior experience.
As you may know i have an awesome handbuilt Wayne Roberts frame from 89 ,constructed from reynolds 531 db and in a perfect size/fit for me.In short I love this frame and commute on it daily with it's current mish mash of 80's 105 and 600 bits in a 1x7 format.
I am thinking of updating it and dragging it into the current time with a possibly Tiagra groupset from Ribble and some robust entry level wheels from wiggle.
I would be sourcing the bits from O/S and then building it up myself with a little help from LBS.
The 130mm rear hub into a 126mm frame doesn't appear to be much of an issue that I can see.
Couple of Q's have arisen though that you guys may be able to help with.

*The Front derailer I will need to specify as clamp on, and I'm assuming it's a 28.6mm as the tube is thinner than that on my A4 which I'm guessing would be the 31mm variety?

*Will the Brifters clamps fit the old school bar diameter, as opposed to the over size bars they are normally fitted to on modern bikes?

Happy to hear tips/pointers/thoughts on the pitfalls from anyone who has made the upgrade or done such a modification in the past.

I had entertained the idea of buying a donor off ebay and swapping stuff, but for the equivilant it seems I can buy new from O/S, so thats the plan at the mo :?

cheers in advance dave

P.S , I'm not looking to go OTT or do a dream build, just wanting to upgrade a much loved frame on a budget with some comfy modern bits so i can keep on enjoying the commute.

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Mulger bill
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:26 pm

Go for it Dave. Sounds shittot. :D

Crog did a similar thing to his Cecil Walker, details in the retro area. May be a way back tho'. AFAIK most OS bars are only that way at the clamp area, at least the two sets I have are.

Wheels may be an issue. If the frame is made for 27 1/4", brakes for 700c prolly won't work. Luckily Shamino have longreach units in 105 equivalent (R450) or Ultegra (R650).

Cheers
Shaun
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brauluver
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby brauluver » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:29 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Go for it Dave. Sounds shittot. :D

Crog did a similar thing to his Cecil Walker, details in the retro area. May be a way back tho'. AFAIK most OS bars are only that way at the clamp area, at least the two sets I have are.

Wheels may be an issue. If the frame is made for 27 1/4", brakes for 700c prolly won't work. Luckily Shamino have longreach units in 105 equivalent (R450) or Ultegra (R650).

Cheers
Shaun


Nah she's a 700c frame to be sure :D , no probs there

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tomns
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby tomns » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:19 pm

Howdy there,

It is a pretty easy job - I put a new campag centaur groupset on my 1990s steel peugeot and it worked a treat. The only thing you will need (assuming that your bike has braze on down tube mounts) is a set of these cable stops

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... SNAGRSZ250

Also you will probably need to watch that the cable guide that goes on the bottom of the bb is going to fit ( you might have to bodgy something up - I glued my with silastic.

Another thing is the new brakes will be the recessed nut brakes so you might have to drill out the rear of the forks
or use Sheldon's suggestions.

You can get a braze on adapter for your thinner frame however if you do buy a "hard to fit kit" or a long nut for the braze on derailleur - I didn't first time around and destroyed a campag FD as it didn't have enough threads engaged

I bought a groupset and a new wheel set from Ribble which ended up costing $1300 ish, Centaur is about Ultegra
grade so if you went tiagra it would work out a lot cheaper.

I would really recommend you buy a wheelset too because they are just so cheap - you can pick up a fulcrum set for $180 ish and they really set off a rebuild.

Tom
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brauluver
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby brauluver » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:30 pm

Cheers Tom, yeah those dooflickies will make there way into my cart as well.

My frame already has brazed on cable guides on the upper side od B/B on either side of where the seat tube buts in.Will that be an issue?

Fork and rear bridge are already recessed as the bike runs period(89) 105 brakes

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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby lethoso » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:13 am

brauluver wrote:The 130mm rear hub into a 126mm frame doesn't appear to be much of an issue that I can see.


unless your frame is pretty loose at the rear anyway, it's probably best to get it respaced. Should only cost you a few dollars.
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rkelsen
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby rkelsen » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:10 am

lethoso wrote:
brauluver wrote:The 130mm rear hub into a 126mm frame doesn't appear to be much of an issue that I can see.

unless your frame is pretty loose at the rear anyway, it's probably best to get it respaced. Should only cost you a few dollars.

Just a thought here: A modern 130mm hub fits into a 126mm frame pretty well, but the resultant slightly "off" angle of the dropouts combined with the hard forged steel of the dropouts may cause rear axle slippage if you use a modern quick release skewer with aluminium ends, no matter how much you tighten it. I fixed this problem by using some all steel Shimano skewers of the type with an enclosed cam.

I still haven't had my frame respaced, and have had no slippage at all since installing the steel skewers (approx. 2,000km).

brauluver
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby brauluver » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:51 am

So the groupsets come sans cables.Would a 105/deore cable set be compatable with tiagra or even the dura ace stuff.I can't see a tiagra specific cable set, so i'm assuming it's a generic type item, just differing grades/quality?

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vitualis
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby vitualis » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:25 pm

Cables: yes.

Seriously consider at least going to a modern 10 speed groupset (i.e., 105 with Shimano) as it will simplify the upgrade path in the future.

Cheers.
Michael Tam
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby brauluver » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:33 pm

vitualis wrote:Cables: yes.

Seriously consider at least going to a modern 10 speed groupset (i.e., 105 with Shimano) as it will simplify the upgrade path in the future.

Cheers.


If I was to do that I'd get 105 on the A4 and transfer the tiagra off that to my steel frame.
but to be perfectly honest i'm more than happy with the tiagra stuff and spending extra for 105 is just overkill for my scenario. The old girl is a commuter whip at the mo and will maintain that role, so 105/10 speed is not necessary.

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familyguy
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby familyguy » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:01 pm

The only thing I found painful with an update like that was the FD clamp. Most of the Shimano FD's are listed as "multi-fit" clamps, and they come with spacers. The spacers are fiddly, but they fit. Everything else should bolt straight on. Agree that the STI's will fit any bar. The OS only seems to relate to the centre portion for the stem clamp.

I respaced the back end of my frame with a 2400mm length of 2x4 wall stud, a chair, and Sheldon's instructions. It's simple, and worth it to avoid having to stretch the dropouts every time, or running into an issue if one stay bends more than the other. You can end up with an off centre wheel if that happens.

Jim

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boyracer
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby boyracer » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:28 pm

hey brauluver! just scored me a nice red kenevans columbus sl roadie frame that i'm gonna upgrade to campy 10/11 speed and sexy new wheels. will be using some of the rx100 7 speed off of it to fit out the Bennett with full mudguards for fixed wet commuter. N + 1...

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Mulger bill
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:26 pm

Alright Dave, you've got the data needed. Hurry up and do it, I really wanna see this one. :D

Cheers
Shaun
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

brauluver
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Re: Modern groupset on 80's steel frame.

Postby brauluver » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Alright Dave, you've got the data needed. Hurry up and do it, I really wanna see this one. :D

Cheers
Shaun


Wheew.. you sure know how to put the pressure on a fella :twisted:

If I do this, i will be buying bits and pieces over the next few months online and then stripping and painting the frame too, in preparation for the build.
My problem is I have some cash saved to start this ,but I keep looking on ebay and seeing other bikes within the same $$ value that I could bid on.Adding +1 to N is fraught with many temptations and possible digressions :roll: ...Gotta be strong

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