Magic Shine

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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Xplora » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:03 pm

Didn't connect when I plugged it into the light :O however I tried plugging it into the wall to recharge and it didn't connect there either. Jiggled the connection to the battery and it came good, started charging. :|
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by BNA » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:39 pm

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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Aushiker » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:39 pm

Hi

One for the light geeks :)

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More details at MTBR forums.

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Re: Magic Shine

Postby winstonw » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:48 pm

Xplora wrote:Didn't connect when I plugged it into the light :O however I tried plugging it into the wall to recharge and it didn't connect there either. Jiggled the connection to the battery and it came good, started charging. :|


the lens and batteries should all be the same quality as product 4x the price.
and the connections can be fixed with a $7 soldering iron.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Xplora » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:16 am

Any advice before I kill myself soldering a lithium Ion battery? I don't want to look like a superhero with all the scarring of a exploding battery cell or 4 :shock:
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Myddraal » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:06 pm

winstonw wrote:
Xplora wrote:Didn't connect when I plugged it into the light :O however I tried plugging it into the wall to recharge and it didn't connect there either. Jiggled the connection to the battery and it came good, started charging. :|


the lens and batteries should all be the same quality as product 4x the price.
and the connections can be fixed with a $7 soldering iron.

That's really not true, especially w. regards to the batteries.

Before you go touching the battery pack read all about them first. Lithium batteries can and have taken people's fingers and hands.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby winstonw » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:32 pm

Xplora wrote:Any advice before I kill myself soldering a lithium Ion battery? I don't want to look like a superhero with all the scarring of a exploding battery cell or 4 :shock:


The batteries I've seen had soldering tabs connected.

Yes a solder iron applied directly to the terminal of any lithium battery risks it burning rapidly or exploding, despite safety membranes and engineering to prevent thermal runaway. If I was to use an iron directly on a terminal, I'd discharge the battery to raise the temp that thermal runaway occurs, stick it in the freezer for 20 minutes beforehand, then push it deep into a bag of ice when applying the solder, and not touch the iron tip to the terminal for longer than 2 seconds. Safety glasses, gloves, long sleeved heavy coat, and perspex shield would also be a good idea.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Xplora » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:47 pm

So, without taking legal responsibility, its going to be safer to do this on the Magic Shine batteries which DO have soldering tabs?
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Xplora » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:47 pm

So, without taking legal responsibility, its going to be safer to do this on the Magic Shine batteries which DO have soldering tabs?
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Pushy » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:39 pm

You should be OK but some protective gear would be a good idea
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby winstonw » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:00 pm

Xplora wrote:So, without taking legal responsibility, its going to be safer to do this on the Magic Shine batteries which DO have soldering tabs?


Ask the supplier who retails batteries with soldering tabs attached, to end consumers.
Welding soldering tabs to terminals is also a source of heat, but is common amongst home electronics enthusiasts.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Myddraal » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:05 pm

Xplora wrote:So, without taking legal responsibility, its going to be safer to do this on the Magic Shine batteries which DO have soldering tabs?

Go and thoroughly learn about li ion battery chemistry, the protection measures in place and what they're protecting you from. Seriously, just because the magicshine ex-laptop batteries have been soldered by some underpaid China man does not mean it's safe for you to do so. I only know enough to know it's a dangerous thing to do, and that I don't know enough to be game to do it myself.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby find_bruce » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:23 pm

Xplora wrote:Any advice before I kill myself soldering a lithium Ion battery? I don't want to look like a superhero with all the scarring of a exploding battery cell or 4 :shock:

Xplora wrote:So, without taking legal responsibility, its going to be safer to do this on the Magic Shine batteries which DO have soldering tabs?


For some reason people seem to obsess over flame & "explosions" from Li-ion batteries. Once I understood that what was causing the flame was hydrogen, I was less worried. Lead-acid batteries have been known to give off far greater quantities of hydrogen. The precautions are simple - pick a well ventilated area, no nearby ignition sources, non flamable surface - concrete, steel etc.

What troubles me far more is hydrofluoric acid & I am sceptical of the "expertese" of anyone who mentions fire & explosions but fails to mention hydrofluoric acid. But hey what would I know, its not like I am a rocket surgeon.

Ahem, I seem to have wandered off. Where were we ? Oh yes solder. Are you soldering wires to to the tabs or do you need to solder the tabs onto the batteries?

If you are soldering to the tabs, all is good. They are easy & safe to solder to, which is the whole point of having tabs - just don't drink it, nasty stuff, did terible things to rats.

If you need to solder the tabs back on to the battery, things are a little more tricky. You are likely to bugger the battery long before you get to the whole fire & explosion stuff, so it pays to have a bit of practice.

Rather than retyping stuff & pretending like I know it, follow this link. Be warned though, like me Dan enjoys things that go boom in the night so he is probably not afraid of a little hydrogen
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Myddraal » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:49 am

It's true you probably won't run into any problems soldering the batteries, but don't take it lightly. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby winstonw » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:55 pm

Took delivery of 2 of these 1200 lumen max XML-T6 Crees
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/t6-waterproof-xml-t6-3-mode-1200-lumen-white-led-bike-light-with-battery-pack-set-82510
a few days ago.

Have run both for ~5 hours without a charge, on half and full power, for a 30km night run from BNE Nundah to Sandgate via KBB and Boondall Wetlands trail, and several suburban street runs.

Performed as well as $200+ Ay Ups. Very impressed. Paid around $45 each.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby MichaelB » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:58 am

winstonw wrote:Took delivery of 2 of these 1200 lumen max XML-T6 Crees
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/t6-waterproof-xml-t6-3-mode-1200-lumen-white-led-bike-light-with-battery-pack-set-82510
a few days ago.



What confuses me is why the MJ-818 (900 Lumen one that most people have) is $78 odd and this one is $45 ? Not really caring about the Lumen difference, but is there anything in the specs that makes either of them worth the $30 odd difference ?
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby winstonw » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:31 am

MichaelB wrote:What confuses me is why the MJ-818 (900 Lumen one that most people have) is $78 odd and this one is $45 ? Not really caring about the Lumen difference, but is there anything in the specs that makes either of them worth the $30 odd difference ?


I think MJ's are magic shine brand. What we bought is no name generic.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby MichaelB » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:15 pm

winstonw wrote:
MichaelB wrote:What confuses me is why the MJ-818 (900 Lumen one that most people have) is $78 odd and this one is $45 ? Not really caring about the Lumen difference, but is there anything in the specs that makes either of them worth the $30 odd difference ?


I think MJ's are magic shine brand. What we bought is no name generic.


OK. But is there any other justification for the premium ?
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Magic Shine

Postby Comedian » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:46 pm

I really feel for the people who make ayups. I mean where have they got to hide in the market?

Their only virtue compared to these Asian lights are build quality and backup.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Magic Shine

Postby winstonw » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:33 pm

Comedian wrote:I really feel for the people who make ayups. I mean where have they got to hide in the market?

Their only virtue compared to these Asian lights are build quality and backup.


I would have felt more sorry for me if I had bought Ay Ups in the last 6 mths. :)

If they were sourcing cree leds and lithium batteries for a similar price to magic shine et al, then one can only presume they did alright in the short window of opportunity they should have been aware they had; technology being like that.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Kenzo » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:51 pm

The Ay-Ups are a heck of a lot more hardy then the magic shines and the cheaper versions too.
They (Ay-Up) work in freezing cold, pouring rain... and to some extent underwater. I've used mine as underwater lighting for photos...You can also wash your Ay-Ups in the dishwaher after a muddy outing.
You can charge more than one battery at a time with the one adapter.

There's a lot going for the Ay-Ups other than product support and build quality.. they are much more built for purpose - i.e. rough heavy duty usage in dirt/mud/rain.

For adventure racers the Ay-Ups will be much lighter to carry around too... the Magic Shine knock-off I bought for my 11y/o son to use - (AT)$50 - is quite a bit heavier than an Ay-Up.... yes, brighter than the Ay-Ups too.
But imagine an all-night adventure event - multiple batteries = more weight again. Kayaking and chance of going into the water...
Ay-Up will win for sure.

My two cents....
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Magic Shine

Postby Comedian » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:40 pm

Kenzo wrote:The Ay-Ups are a heck of a lot more hardy then the magic shines and the cheaper versions too.
They (Ay-Up) work in freezing cold, pouring rain... and to some extent underwater. I've used mine as underwater lighting for photos...You can also wash your Ay-Ups in the dishwaher after a muddy outing.
You can charge more than one battery at a time with the one adapter.

There's a lot going for the Ay-Ups other than product support and build quality.. they are much more built for purpose - i.e. rough heavy duty usage in dirt/mud/rain.

For adventure racers the Ay-Ups will be much lighter to carry around too... the Magic Shine knock-off I bought for my 11y/o son to use - (AT)$50 - is quite a bit heavier than an Ay-Up.... yes, brighter than the Ay-Ups too.
But imagine an all-night adventure event - multiple batteries = more weight again. Kayaking and chance of going into the water...
Ay-Up will win for sure.

My two cents....

At 5 times the price that's not a very big market space, is it?

I agree with you that they are better but people won't pay that unless they are competing. However they were one of the few options if you wanted a bright light before magicshines.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Magic Shine

Postby Myddraal » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:52 pm

Magic shine knock offs? Are you serious? They all come out of the same factory(ies). There are no knock offs, not that there would be any point in making a "knock off" anyway, who wants to buy an imitation cheap Chinese brand? I doubt they can be made any cheaper and still work at all.

Also any claims of 1200 Lumens from a single XML are absolute BS. 1000 Lumens at least has a grain of truth in that if you get a good die which is actually a T6, it will put out around 1000 lumens at slightly over 3A: except of course this is the theoretical total being emitted by the emitter, not out the front (OTF) lumens. Over 3A the output levels off, so no matter how hard you drive it, you can't magically get 1200 L out of one of these things:

Image
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho ... riving-XML
^these forums had a major database crash a while ago so some of the older threads have been 'recovered' like that one.

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXM-L.pdf
Data sheet for the LED

If you want to do things cheaply and have any semblance of build quality you'd be better off taking a different route in my opinion (as I did). Ay-ups are expensive, and there are alternatives on the market, but after all the time I've spent looking into lights (and I've got a setup I'm happy with) I no longer believe they are severely over priced compared to what else is available.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby wombatK » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:24 am

Myddraal wrote:If you want to do things cheaply and have any semblance of build quality you'd be better off taking a different route in my opinion (as I did). Ay-ups are expensive, and there are alternatives on the market, but after all the time I've spent looking into lights (and I've got a setup I'm happy with) I no longer believe they are severely over priced compared to what else is available.

+1. Quality and durability cost - if you are a frequent user, definitely good value. I have Magic Shine's for the less frequently used bike in the house, but would buy new Ayups for my primary bikes in a heart-beat if I ever lost them. Could not say the same for the MS's - would replace them with Trustfire TR-801's which are lighter and very similar to Ayups.

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Magic Shine

Postby Kenzo » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:19 am

Myddraal wrote:Magic shine knock offs? Are you serious?

I described them as knock off products because it's easier than typing the name as unbranded magic shine lights.
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Re: Magic Shine

Postby find_bruce » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:06 am

Myddraal wrote:Magic shine knock offs? Are you serious? They all come out of the same factory(ies). There are no knock offs, not that there would be any point in making a "knock off" anyway, who wants to buy an imitation cheap Chinese brand? I doubt they can be made any cheaper and still work at all.

How do you know they come out of the same factory? There are a number of subtle differences between the magicshine lights and the sub $50 lights, including the housing and the connectors, which suggest they come from a different factory. No reports yet to say their build quality is even worse
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