Clydesdale on 20 Spoke rims

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Clydesdale on 20 Spoke rims

Postby daniel.s » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:44 am

Hi peoples. I'm hoping to get back into riding a bike after many years off one in order to get fit again.

I've been browsing this forum and am slowly getting up to scratch on all the tech jargon.

At the moment I own a crappy old Konya MTB that has served me reasonably well since around 1993. I've bought some road tyres for it, and will be riding it until I get myself a proper road bike.

I don't have a massive immediate budget for a new bike, so I'm looking to get a second hand one.

I've got my eye on a Trek 2300 on eBay, but it has 20 spoke rims on it.

I weigh about 104KG and am 198CM tall. Is it unwise for someone my size/height to ride an alu bike with 20 spokes?

Thanks in advance.

Daniel
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by BNA » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:13 am

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Postby europa » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:13 am

G'day Daniel,

Welcome to the nuthouse. Check out the Garfield Principle and you'll see you're not unusual in the Clydesdale department.

On your question. No problem with the Aluminium frames. Toolonglegs has a massive appetite for frames but I'm beginning to think his enthusiasm might have something to do with it :roll:

As far as 20 spoke wheels goes, I wouldn't trust them. My feeling is that you'll wind up buying new wheels. However, it's not difficult to get things like that changed when buying a bike new at a reduced price because the 'new' wheels off the bike you are buying can be put into 'spare parts'.

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Postby daniel.s » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:34 am

Thanks for the reply, Richard.

This bike i'm looking at has a 63CM frame. That's pretty much as good as I can get for my height isn't it?

I'd post a link to it, but can't as i've got under 10 posts.

I had a look at some Cell bikes, as they seem pretty good value for money, but I think i'll get a cheapie (<$400) before I go out and get a new bike.
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Postby europa » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:43 am

Just try lots of different bikes is the answer. The frame sizing is all over the shop anyway. Cell bikes seem to be good value but we are heading into the silly season with new models - good deals to be had on old stock but old stock becoming limited, so patient shopping might pay off.

Don't go too cheap.

And I've just noticed you're looking at second hand - not sure what I was thinking of earlier (too early in the day, too much blood in my caffeine stream). The shopping around will help with the frame sizing too.

I'd be wary of any second hand bike unless you can ride it. The descriptions on ebay are notoriously unreliable - even without the sharks, what one person genuinely believes is 'good' condition can be pretty darned horrid, especially if the owner has no idea about maintenance. Remember, EVERY second hand sale is for a 'genuine reason', and often that reason is because the thing is stuffed.

Good to hear of another Konya on the road - I thought I was the only person to suffer that fate :roll:

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Postby Bnej » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:54 am

Spoke count isn't everything, you can get very strong wheels with low spoke counts. You could try it, if the wheel keeps coming out of true then just replace it with a stronger wheel.

Unless the wheel actually has a weight limit set on it, then it should be ok.
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Postby daniel.s » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:00 am

Yes, I noticed the new gear is coming in. Cell had 2008 Sora groupsets for sale seperately, but not on any of their bikes yet.

I had also considered building a bike up from scratch. Not sure if it's worth it though. My wife's very pessimistic about the whole "new bike" thing. Maybe I just have to clock up a few thousand more kays on the MTB (just bought a computer for it) to prove that I need a new bike. Ah the joys.

My dodgy old Konya was a cheapie when it was new (parents bought it for me). It's got a single-piece crank, and had steel wheels. I replaced the wheels with alloys, but it's still pretty much the same. It's held up quite well though, as I used to ride it to school every day, plus in the bush a few times a week when I was younger.

About not going too cheap, i'll only be using the bike for fitness reasons for now. I don't think i'll need such a pricey bike - eg. ultegra gear, etc.
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Postby daniel.s » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:02 am

Bnej wrote:Spoke count isn't everything, you can get very strong wheels with low spoke counts. You could try it, if the wheel keeps coming out of true then just replace it with a stronger wheel.

Unless the wheel actually has a weight limit set on it, then it should be ok.


This particular bike i'm looking at has R550s on it. I wouldn't have a clue about where they sit in Shimano's lineup.
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Postby MountGower » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:13 am

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Postby europa » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:16 am

daniel.s wrote:This particular bike i'm looking at has R550s on it. I wouldn't have a clue about where they sit in Shimano's lineup.


Okay you roadie experts, are they the good ones or the dodgy ones? (maybe do a search Daniel - there's one model Shimano wheel that cops a few mentions on here).

Certainly the more miles you do, the more you can justify spending. Don't ignore Ultegra just because you want the bike for 'fitness' reasons - you'll be spending a lot of time on that bike so you want it to work properly. Having said that, there's nothing wrong with Sora either. The big thing will be the frame - if you're buying an aluminium frame, make sure it's got carbon forks (all ally tends to be a bit harsh).

Good second bikes do come up, you just have to be careful what you're getting. Like buying a second hand car.

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Postby daniel.s » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:21 am

Thanks guys.

I've been searching around the net, but the general consensus on these wheels combined with heavy riders seems to be split about 50/50.

My target weight is around 89-90KG flat, so I still won't be that light once I've lost the flab.

I certainly don't want to drop a heap of spokes in the middle of a ride, going around a corner or something.
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Postby Bnej » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 am

I have 2007 model R550s on my bike, I've had no problems with them but I'm about 68kgs. They're decently light, but I have heard a lot of heavier people have problems with them not keeping true.

BTW you're not going to lose a lot of spokes all at once, you'll hear one or two pop or the wheel will come out of true, you can get that fixed and it's all okay again. I've never heard of anyone having a regular road wheel self-destruct without warning.
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Postby daniel.s » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:48 am

Bnej wrote:BTW you're not going to lose a lot of spokes all at once, you'll hear one or two pop or the wheel will come out of true, you can get that fixed and it's all okay again. I've never heard of anyone having a regular road wheel self-destruct without warning.


That's good to hear. I read somewhere else that it might happen, but it was just a rumour.

So I guess that deep V rims are stronger. Is that correct?
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Postby MichaelB » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:32 am

Whilst my rims are not Shimano R550's, they are Bontrager Select 20/24 spoke combo, and I'm typically sitting in the 95kg range.

Have travelled over 3,000km now and the wheels are as true as ever despite managing to find quite a few ruts & potholes on the journey.

Richard has the same rims (Bontrager Selecet) on his bike, and I think has just broken a spoke, and he is a bit more of a clydesdale than me, but not much.
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Postby Bnej » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:34 am

As I understand the Velocity Deep V is a very strong rim, which reduces the stress on the spokes.

Try whatever wheels come with your bike (unless they are weight limited, which is unlikely), and if they stay true and you don't break spokes, keep them. If you start breaking spokes often and constantly having to get them trued then you should get a stronger wheel - the Deep V is what a lot of heavier people here recommend.
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Postby europa » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:40 am

MichaelB wrote:Richard has the same rims (Bontrager Selecet) on his bike, and I think has just broken a spoke, and he is a bit more of a clydesdale than me, but not much.


No I do not, I've got the MAVERICK :twisted:
Heavier duty rim with eyeletted spokes.

Most wheels these days are built in factories by machines. This can produce some uneven spoke tensions and it's not unusual for newish wheels to pop a spoke or two. A rebuild and retension is all that's needed. Nothing to worry about.

If you are having repeated problems, that's when you look for other solutions.

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Postby MichaelB » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:44 am

europa wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Richard has the same rims (Bontrager Selecet) on his bike, and I think has just broken a spoke, and he is a bit more of a clydesdale than me, but not much.


No I do not, I've got the MAVERICK :twisted:
Heavier duty rim with eyeletted spokes.


Oh, must be the tyres that are the same then.

Looks like the heavy duty rime with the elyleted spokes worked then :roll:








:twisted:
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Postby europa » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:45 am

MichaelB wrote:Looks like the heavy duty rime with the elyleted spokes worked then :roll:
:twisted:


Try working your LeMond as hard as I work the Black Beast :twisted:

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Postby daniel.s » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:03 pm

Thanks for answering all my newbie questions so far. There will be more to come.

I was under the impression that it might be dangerous to ride on these wheels, but if all I get is a spoke or 2 popping then I can wait with buying new wheels until/if it does happen.

The 550s are 16 front / 20 rear aren't they?
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Postby MJF » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:08 pm

Well - I'm getting between 900km and 1200km before spokes start to pop on a 36 spoke wheel. But I'm another 14kg's on top of where daniel.s is.

My personal feeling is that he's going to end up owning two wheels so he can swap to the 'spare' while the 'non-spare' gets rebuilt.
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Postby daniel.s » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:13 pm

MJF wrote:Well - I'm getting between 900km and 1200km before spokes start to pop on a 36 spoke wheel. But I'm another 14kg's on top of where daniel.s is.


Thanks for the input mate. Good to see another IT geek around... ;)
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Postby mikesbytes » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:21 pm

They may of fixed the problem with 550/560 spokes, there seem to be less complaints. But there are still not suitable for men of your stature.

Velocity Deep V is just about bullet proof. Combined with quality hubs and spokes and your in the money.
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Postby daniel.s » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Who sells the Velocity Deep V? I had a look at T7, PBK, and Cell's websites, but they don't list any. Is the LBS the best option for this?
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Postby europa » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:59 pm

Velocity are an Australian brand that markets world wide. In Australia, they are only available through bike shops and wheel builders and you usually have to ask. That said, most shops will have or be able to get them. They aren't cheap, but not expensive either and are darned good rims.

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Postby daniel.s » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:06 pm

Yeah, I noticed they were Australian.

That's like with cars - there are some world-class parts churned out by Aussie companies. Stick it to 'em Australia.
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Postby toolonglegs » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:40 am

I am a bit late on this one but pretty much all covered,I don't think the wheels would last long...new road riders are never the smoothest and your weight will trash them.Plus you don't really get to "pop" a few spokes on a 20/24 spoke wheel.They run alot more tension and if one goes it renders the bike pretty much unrideable.But buying the bike and then changing the wheels may be the go,you are 2 cm taller than me and I can tell you there aren't many brands around that will fit.63cm older trek would be fine....good luck.
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