so, why even call it an AUS online shop then?!
Ownership and staffing?
That's one more than Holden!
Questions about purchasing bicycles and parts
Ownership and staffing?
That's one more than Holden!
Yes it is a foreign transaction fee for exchange rates etc. Below you will see a partial copy of my bank statement. You will notice that I made a purchase from Cell Bikes at a similar time and no transaction fee. Secondly, the actual amount deducted was different from the purchase price ($861). This must have been an exchange differential or the actual fee.
12/08/2013 CELL BIKES STANMORE AUS $160.68
12/08/2013 LEGEND LOGISTIC CO HONG KONG HKG $887.22
12/08/2013 FEES INCLUDED IN TRAN AUD861.80 FOREIGN TRANSACTION FEE A$25.42
So the next question is (and excuse if I've missed it), what will happen now if your order is over $1000? You'll be stung with import duties?
when you buy from Holden you don't get charged an OS currency fee
The import duty question is very valid and since you are paying an overseas company and the product is shipped from OS is GST included in the price ?
To me this sums up CE, nothing is transparent, they don't bother communicating unless it is to spam your inbox and this forum (no doubt others as well).
PS: I am another who unsubscribed some time ago and started getting spammed again when the new site went live. Maybe we report the domain as a spam source.
Why aren't you hitting CE up for a refund on this? If they're "fully Australian" then they shouldn't be charging you in foreign currency unless they told you about this beforehand/at checkout. Was an Australian ABN on the invoice? Are Aust. companies even allowed to charge in foreign currencies? Wouldn't that make doing their tax mind-bendingly difficult?
I believe the answer is yes to Australian companies charging in foreign currencies. One of the old companies I used to work for (100% Australian) charged overseas clients in US dollars to take advantage of the exchange rate (at that time a few years back when it was well below parity). No idea on the tax question. I just assumed they converted it to AUD and then paid tax on the AUD amount.
You can charge in whatever currency you want, but IMO would need transparency beforehand so the consumer would know what they have to pay and in what currency if they want to purchase the goods. If they then slug you with hidden fees (ie. if at the time of purchase it said you were paying in AUD when they really charged you in HKD and you got charged this transaction fee by your bank) then that's not on, IMO.
Of course you do, Jase.
It's just bundled into the final price.
Part of the sclerotic nature of the Detroit car makers was that a certain proportion of the customer price was charged to fund the too rapidly growing employee retirement funds, for example.
It was part of their cost of doing business, it just didn't appear as a line item on the bill when you were in the dealership.
Last edited by clackers on Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
$887.22 is Hong Kong dollars.
I understand that you have been charged AUD 861.80 and it says that AUD $25.42 is included.
In this case we could say EVERYBODY CALM DOWN, and the information explains the breakdown and you are paying the original price listed in AUD.
Please do confirm as I think it is fair to have a close look and make sure we have our details right.
I am suggesting that CE may be invoicing in this manner but that buyers still pay the price listed. Unless the retailer can influence it, I am curious as to whether foreign exchange transaction fees can be included so the buyer always pays the listed purchase price (i.e. CE looks after any variation).
I called and spoke with Cycling Express last week and asked for confirmation they were 100% Australian owned and was told yes... however I am not certain as Legend Logistics Co is the owner and the wording on the website as changed (CE about us page) "We are company, started by a group of Australians" but no longer with the 100% Australian Owned assertation. I asked whether it was only the logistics that was now handled overseas and was told 'yes' - there is certainly an Australian component (History and Melbourne offices) though don't know how it fits together.
In the grand scheme, the Australian ownership has value - Aussies like to support local business. By no means does this suggest that local or overseas business are better than one another. Currently there is an assumption that the purchase is with Australian conditions and while the logistics are somewhat irrelevant (regardless of the retailer, the 98% of the gear comes from overseas at some stage) it does raise some interesting questions such as GST which would be no longer applicable and import & duty / GST for purchases over the $1000 threshhold.
BNA Feature: Online Australian Cycling Marketplace Report 2013
The above price is the overall price including the foreign transaction fee and the price of the goods. It is in Australian Dollars. That is, the first line is the combined totals of the two mentioned in the second line: $887.22 = 861.80 + A$25.42.
I'm calm. Although it is clear to me I have been charged a foreign transaction fee, whereas no fee was charged for Cell.
I'd say if CE were still Australian, there would be no foreign transaction fee. However, my intuition is that you'd be paying more for the goods if it were still an Australian company.
No, that can't be it. HKD$880 is only about AUD$120
Be interesting to see what the invoice says. I'd be disputing the charge with the card issuer already.
At the bootom of the page it states "We ship world wide And offer local delivery & payment options". How can an exhcange fee be charged for a local payment?
This from their website.
No Hidden costs....
Checkout price is all you need to pay.....
CE will probably say the bank charged the fee, which they did.
The checkout price is really all you need to pay...........
Does that apply for Wiggle and the like?
If the checkout page for whatever site you are buying from says you are purchasing in AUD, then I say yes - the bank should not charge you any foreign currency transaction fee and if they do it should be followed up with the seller.
As an example, Paypal gives you two options - to convert whatever currency the product you are purchasing is in into AUD using their conversion rate (and so you don't get charged your bank's foreign currency transaction fee) OR to purchase the item in the currency it is and pay your bank's transaction fee.
Of course, if at checkout the payment page says you are purchasing in a currency other than AUD then you know at the time that you'll get charged your bank's foreign transaction fee and you can choose to cancel the purchase prior to plugging in your card details. From my understanding this was not the case with the current OP (correct me if I'm wrong): Payment was stated to be in AUD by CE, therefore expectation by the purchaser was it should appear on the bank statement in AUD as the exact payment amount agreed to.
Just emailed CE about the fee. They are refunding the difference. Quick reply too.
Card Issuers have two types of fees:
1) Currency Conversion Fee
2) Overseas Transaction Fee
I think that 2) was a sneaky fee to catch people who had the overseas store bill them in local currency.
It looks like in this case, the fee was an Overseas Transaction fee as the merchant was in Hong Kong. It looks like the fee rate is about 3% of the transaction value, which is just a rort because I doubt it costs the card issuer anywhere near that.
Fir this reason, I got a 28 degrees MasterCard. It has no annual fee, no currency conversion fees and no overseas transaction fees. If you shop online and don't want to get stung with outrageous fees like this, get one if these (or similar) cards.
The other question for CE is whether they make it clear you are conducting an overseas transaction. Why are they billing from Hong Kong if they are an Australian Company? On the surface it would appear they are in fact now a Hong Kong based company marketing/selling to the world, but do not in fact have anything to do with Australia anymore.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '09 Electra Townie Original 21D
J Quinton, thanks for that - wasn't intending to imply that you yourself were not calm however read the transaction statement and came to the wrong conclusion. Sorry.
I agree that the list price should be the price that is paid however good point on Wiggle and I can't remember. I guess if a company was overseas I would assume a surcharge - so with CE are probably just pre-conditioned as billing was previously local.
The Cycling Express information is positive - and the quick response also a good sign. I expect that to avoid nasty shocks for customers (as this will be an ongoing issue) they will probably need a solution where the customer is billed locally with a holding account or represent this otherwise.
BNA Feature: Online Australian Cycling Marketplace Report 2013
Can't comment on their online shop, as I haven't purchased from them for a long time.
I'm very happy with their bricks and mortar shop after they did some emergency maintenance/repairs for me with no notice and very quick turnaround.
Great value and great service, especially considering it was on a Saturday.
After not being so positive about them in the past, credit where credit is due...
I ordered from them 9:30pm 5th Sept.
Delivered yesterday 3:30pm. (9th Sept.)
Dispatched from Taiwan via TNT. Shipping was free. (>$100 order)
Seems the Taiwan branch does a faster shipping job than the Melb. store ever did. (For me anyway)
Ordered 3 times from CE in the last few weeks.
No emails sent to advise of dispatch of any of the 3 orders, despite advising them off this issue after the first order.
$10 discount off first purchase for signing up to the newsletter not applied. They did however offer a $15 discount off next purchase, which off course necessitated another purchase, so not ideal.
Goods did arrive as advertised and within the time frame stated on their website.
Items all dispatched from Taiwan via TNT
Some good prices such as...
Dura Ace 9000 chain for $36.99 (I bought two at that price!)
Dura Ace 9000 C24 tubeless wheel set $873
Conti GP4000s 25MM tyres $39.95
SRAM Super Suede bar tape $10
Their website and ordering process probably requires some tweaking, but otherwise am reasonably happy with the service.
It appears to be just another overseas site now though, so no 'karma' points for shopping locally.
I also got hit with an unexplained extra amount on my last CE order. I emailed them and they said it was my bank and the bank should refund it. But the bank said it wasn't their increase and anyway any foreign exchange charge by them would be a separate line on the visa statement not an increase in the billed amount. Everything on the website is A$ so why should there be a foreign exchange fee. The increase was only about 5% but it makes it hard to compare prices if you are billed a bigger amount than on the website. Maybe the ACCC should look at them for false advertising. So how do you get a refund? CE have sent me 2 replies both telling to complain to my bank.
Keep asking - I had issues with the newsletter discount being applied, and it took a few goes before they agreed to refund the amount rather than just offering a coupon for a slightly higher discount on my next order.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 4
Is there still a BNA discount code for these guys? I can't see the banner ad any more.
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