Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

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Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby biker jk » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:44 am

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by BNA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:51 am

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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:51 am

Looks very slick indeed.

The fact that it now adopts the Ultegra version of the wiring harness means that if you have Ultegra Di2, you can add upgrades as you go.

I also like the factory version of the internal battery (as many after market people have been doing anyway).

Be interesting to see what the prioce ends up at !!
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby rkelsen » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:19 am

It certainly looks cleaner than the current version.

Does it have a charging port in the seat post? It'd be a PITA to remove the seatpost every time you need to charge the battery.

Still no option to run off a hub dynamo?
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby Dr_Mutley » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:26 am

rkelsen wrote:It certainly looks cleaner than the current version.

Does it have a charging port in the seat post? It'd be a PITA to remove the seatpost every time you need to charge the battery.

Still no option to run off a hub dynamo?


given how infrequent charging is required... ie once every few months at the most, its not such a PITA, but would be a nice option....

Exerpt from BR article:
"The next big change is a new optional internal battery, available to fit either in the seatpost, seat tube or down tube. To get around any charging issues, a new junction box port will allow the battery to be charged in situ. As the internal battery doesn't require the same level of weatherproofing as the external version (though it's still fully sealed), it weighs 60 percent less."

not sure how accessible that will be however if u run the internal wiring kit?
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby sblack » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:27 pm

Dr_Mutley wrote:not sure how accessible that will be however if u run the internal wiring kit?

They show the junction box later in the article, it's mounted under the stem and there's a three port of five port option as the junction box is also where you plug in additional controls or a flightdeck computer.

edit: rereading, the flightdeck connects to the 5 port box only and via ANT+.
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby Ross » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:37 pm

rkelsen wrote:Does it have a charging port in the seat post? It'd be a PITA to remove the seatpost every time you need to charge the battery.




What, undo and re-tighten one allen bolt every six months? :roll:


rkelsen wrote:Still no option to run off a hub dynamo?


There wouldn't be much call for it as most of the Di2 sales would be for roadies/racer, most of whom are weight concious and therefore wouldn't contemplate a dynamo, they are more for commuters or tourers
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby Ross » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:40 pm

Shimano also has introduced a new line of seven DuraAce wheels. with wider rims. Everything from 24mm, 35mm, 50mm and 75mm alloy/carbon clinchers.


This might also explain the other thread where someone said DA wheels had gone out of production.
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby Ross » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:42 pm

MichaelB wrote:Be interesting to see what the prioce ends up at !!


CyclingTips wrote:Pricing

The Shimano press release didn’t indicate retail pricing yet, but other sources I’ve found indicates the following (USD):

Wheels range from $1,400 to $3,500 per set (depending on configuration).

DuraAce mechanical 9000 Groupset: $2,695

Di2 9070: $4,139
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby rkelsen » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:00 pm

Ross wrote:There wouldn't be much call for it as most of the Di2 sales would be for roadies/racer, most of whom are weight concious and therefore wouldn't contemplate a dynamo, they are more for commuters or tourers

Surely, no true weight weenie would consider electronic shifting: http://www.totalcycling.com/component-weights.html
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:49 pm

Plenty of WW's will use it, and here is a great review (non-marketing copy) of the electronic groupset as well as the Mechanical and new range of wheels

http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/updates-and-news/shimano-2013-part-1-dura-ace-9000.html

Part 1 is DA 9000 (Mechanical)
Part 2 is DA 9070 (Electronic)
Part 3 is DA Wheel range
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby jcjordan » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:55 pm

Well it looks like this Shimano fan will be going SRAM on the next bike.
4 sets of wheels that would be useless on the new bike, no thanks.
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby Ross » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:01 pm

The battery doesn't need to be removed for charging anyway, there is a junction box mounted under the stem/handlebars where you just plug the charger in.

Yes, sure you can get lighter groupsets than DA Di2 but sometimes the alleged performance advantages or just outright bling value make it more desirable over the lighter versions. Dynamos have neither when it comes to a road bike. Di2 only requires charging every 6 months or so and it only takes about 30 mins so no real advantage to running a dynamo just for charging this. perhaps if you had a dynamo already on a training bike to run headlights, but on a training bike you would be unlikely to have Di2 anyway.
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby Ross » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:02 pm

jcjordan wrote:Well it looks like this Shimano fan will be going SRAM on the next bike.
4 sets of wheels that would be useless on the new bike, no thanks.


So what happens when SRAM go to 11 speed or make their own Di2/EPS? :twisted:
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:25 pm

jcjordan wrote:Well it looks like this Shimano fan will be going SRAM on the next bike.
4 sets of wheels that would be useless on the new bike, no thanks.


Why, unless you are planning on going to 9000 series straight away !!

From the Fair Wheel Bikes blub (part 3), it seems that this may not be the case ...

The freehub body has grown in length by 1.85mm. The spline pattern is the same as existing 10 speed so new 11 speed wheels are compatible with 10 speed cassettes. There is a 1.85mm spacer that will be used in addition to the 1mm spacer that is used already with 10 speed. This increase in freehub body has led to a change in lacing, all the new rear wheels are 21 spoke triplet laced. 14 drive side spokes laced 3 cross and 7 non drive side spokes radially laced. Right flanges had to be moved in to make space for the new body but the left flanges have moved out increasing the bracing angle by 7mm, which is a significant amount. The lower profile rims also use an offset drilled rim. The new hubs have retained 130mm spacing despite claims by some that there has been an increase in OLN spacing


The new 11sp wheels will take 10sp, and splines same, or am I mistaken ?
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby Ross » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:27 pm

MichaelB wrote:Plenty of WW's will use it, and here is a great review (non-marketing copy) of the electronic groupset as well as the Mechanical and new range of wheels

http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/updates-and-news/shimano-2013-part-1-dura-ace-9000.html

Part 1 is DA 9000 (Mechanical)
Part 2 is DA 9070 (Electronic)
Part 3 is DA Wheel range


Thanks for posting the link, interesting read, but I couldn't get the 2nd and 3rd parts to work.
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby jcjordan » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:33 pm

MichaelB wrote:
jcjordan wrote:Well it looks like this Shimano fan will be going SRAM on the next bike.
4 sets of wheels that would be useless on the new bike, no thanks.


Why, unless you are planning on going to 9000 series straight away !!

From the Fair Wheel Bikes blub (part 3), it seems that this may not be the case ...

The freehub body has grown in length by 1.85mm. The spline pattern is the same as existing 10 speed so new 11 speed wheels are compatible with 10 speed cassettes. There is a 1.85mm spacer that will be used in addition to the 1mm spacer that is used already with 10 speed. This increase in freehub body has led to a change in lacing, all the new rear wheels are 21 spoke triplet laced. 14 drive side spokes laced 3 cross and 7 non drive side spokes radially laced. Right flanges had to be moved in to make space for the new body but the left flanges have moved out increasing the bracing angle by 7mm, which is a significant amount. The lower profile rims also use an offset drilled rim. The new hubs have retained 130mm spacing despite claims by some that there has been an increase in OLN spacing


New bike will be next year some time so 9000 will be the Shimano groupset on the bike if I go for Dura Ace.

As you quoted the new freehub body has grown in length which mean the new 11 speed cassettes will not be compatable with 10 speed hubs. So all my old wheels will no longer be suitable for the new groupset.

The new 11sp wheels will take 10sp, and splines same, or am I mistaken ?
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby jcjordan » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:34 pm

Ross wrote:
jcjordan wrote:Well it looks like this Shimano fan will be going SRAM on the next bike.
4 sets of wheels that would be useless on the new bike, no thanks.


So what happens when SRAM go to 11 speed or make their own Di2/EPS? :twisted:


Think it will be a while off yet based on the new groupset release and the comments from SRAM.
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby rkelsen » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:42 pm

Ross wrote:Di2 only requires charging every 6 months or so and it only takes about 30 mins so no real advantage to running a dynamo just for charging this.

Someone should tell this guy: http://cycling.norbtech.com/2012/02/when-technology-fails-you/.
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby sblack » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:52 pm

Ross wrote:There wouldn't be much call for it as most of the Di2 sales would be for roadies/racer, most of whom are weight concious and therefore wouldn't contemplate a dynamo, they are more for commuters or tourers
Then why have they made Alfine Di2?
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby jasonc » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:09 pm

Ross wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Plenty of WW's will use it, and here is a great review (non-marketing copy) of the electronic groupset as well as the Mechanical and new range of wheels

http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/updates-and-news/shimano-2013-part-1-dura-ace-9000.html

Part 1 is DA 9000 (Mechanical)
Part 2 is DA 9070 (Electronic)
Part 3 is DA Wheel range


Thanks for posting the link, interesting read, but I couldn't get the 2nd and 3rd parts to work.



http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/updates-and-news/shimano-2013-part-2-9070-di2-dura-ace.html

http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/updates-and-news/shimano-2013-part-3-wheels.html
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:00 pm

From WW discussions, it seems that it will be Oct 2012 (for OEM) Mech DA 9000 is ready, and another 6 months for Electronic, but who really knows at this stage

Either way, i can't afford it, but hoping that Ultegra Di2 will come down a bit more :D
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:02 pm

[quote="jcjordanNew bike will be next year some time so 9000 will be the Shimano groupset on the bike if I go for Dura Ace.

As you quoted the new freehub body has grown in length which mean the new 11 speed cassettes will not be compatable with 10 speed hubs. So all my old wheels will no longer be suitable for the new groupset.

[/quote]

madcow wrote:
Basically any company that makes an existing hub which can be switched from Shimano to Campag or vice versa without redishing (DT, Tune 170 etc...) should have no real issue putting the new freehub body on the existing hub shell. Those that do not have that ability, (Alchemy, Tune 180 etc...) will have more trouble making it work. Some will be able to and others won't.


According to this paste from WW (author of the 3 DA reviews that links were posted above), it seems that since they have kept the same 130mm OLN dimension, a new freehub will solve this. Now whether that is affordable/available for most manufacturers is another issue again, so not all hope may be lost
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby Daccordi Rider » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:11 pm

Shimano continues to be the winner in the "we make the ugliest crank competition" Take that Shimano!!
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby biker jk » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:19 pm

Daccordi Rider wrote:Shimano continues to be the winner in the "we make the ugliest crank competition" Take that Shimano!!


Only if you're stuck in the 1930s Campy mindset of what a crankset should look like!!!
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Re: Dura-Ace Di2 9070, Take that Campy EPS!

Postby Daccordi Rider » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:27 pm

biker jk wrote:
Daccordi Rider wrote:Shimano continues to be the winner in the "we make the ugliest crank competition" Take that Shimano!!


Only if you're stuck in the 1930s Campy mindset of what a crankset should look like!!!


This
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Looks like a fully sik rim on a boganmobile

Or this

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Understated and gracefull.

Honestly, no contest. 8)
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